Bowl Turning Lathe

[turner23]

Hey guys,

I've narrowed my next lathe purchase down to either the PM3520B or the Jet 1642-2.

Both machines are 2hp, 220v.
Both have rpm readout.
Both have SMOOTH variable speed from a 220v, 3phase motor with inverter.

As I see it, the significant differences are that the PM weighs 300lbs more than the Jet (sandbags can remedy this), and the PM has 4" more swing than the Jet. I've read the PM has (1) more set of bearings in the headstock as well, I don't see this as deal breaking. I'll be using whichever machine I buy for bowls, platters, and hollows...maybe getting into coring in the future. Not a lot of [long] spindle work here.

SO...
To all you Mustard Machine owners...are there any features that I'm not seeing other than those above? Is the extra weight and swing worth an extra $1,000? Do you frequently turn pieces larger than 16" D.?

To any JET 1642 owners, how do you like the machine? What don't you like about it? Did you consider the 3520 before making your decision to buy?

I'd really appreciate your input!

Cheers!!!

 

[odie]

I don't have either of these machines, but have a comment. Unless you have a source for very large pieces of wood, you will seldom (if ever) have the opportunity to turn wood larger than 16" in diameter. If you have to resort to purchasing bowl blanks (like I do), you are going to pay through the nose to get wood that big.

However, if you plan to turn for the long term, you will always be happier, if you choose the heavier duty, and better machine.

If you are serious about your bowl turning, now is the time to bite the bullet, and get the best machine you can possibly get! If you do, I promise you it'll pay off in the long run.

....odie

 

[Griesbach]

Go for the Powermatic. You won't be disappointed.

 

[MichaelMouse]

DVR seems a good option as well. Don't need more power than it provides, and its baby brother has had all the rigidity I need for 16x9 stuff. Where you might need it, you can swing out. PM was my dream, 3000 was available at a good price, and he's a great performer.

 

[Steve Worcester]

I wold say the Powermatic if you have the extra money.

I have turned on many big lathes and own a big lathe myself, when you turn big it is usually with found wood, not purchased, but I have bought some very large pieces of wood as well. It is true you can turn small pieces on a big lathe but not big pieces on a small a lathe. There is no substitute for the bulk ans stability of a larger lathe.

If you have the space and the money a bigger lathe is always the wiser decision.

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

23

You don't mention what you turn on now. Both machines are excellent. I have the 1 1/2 HP 110 version of the 1642 and its done everything I have asked of it. I bought it in August 2004 and just recently changed bearing for the first time. I turn everything from big bowls to bottle stoppers. Even the 1 1/2 version is adeauted for coring although I need to be gentle on the big pieces when coring.

If you are just starting out and need money to spend on assecories go for the 1642. If you are looking for the last lathe you will ever need to buy, like to turn big stuff, and got the cash definately go for the 3520B.

Jet/Powermatic both offer great service so I think you have narrowed the feild well.

Frank

 

[dkulze]

I've heard much more good stuff about powermatics than the Jets. I can tell you from experience that 1 1/2 horse on anything over 12 inches is too little. I can also tell you that DVR, reverse, and a big, heavy machine are more than just a nice extra. Finally, a 16 inch swing is really only good to about 14", and that is somewhat pushing it. Between turning down and shaping, you'd be really talented to get 15" and it would take some careful precutting.

I can also state with experience that the extra swing will likely get used eventually.

Finally, a 3520 is sufficiently solid and powerful to do REALLY large platters hanging off the end. A friend recently did a 30" platter on his and it worked wonderfully. I'd hesitate to even consider doing something like that on the Jet.

Go for the mustard monster if you can. I'd even say that if that extra $1000 limits your accessories, it's still worth it. You won't regret it.

Dietrich

 

[robo hippy]

I have had my PM for 7 years. I did concrete work for 30 years, and tend to like things big, heavy, and overbuilt, better safe than sorry. I have seldom turned bowls over 16 inches, mainly because they just don't sell that well. Big bowls seem to be more of a specialty market. If you are doing production work, get the PM. I am drooling over the Robust lathe right now. I will probably never turn a bowl with a 25 inch diameter, but who knows? The extra power and speed ranges will help general turning. If I do get it, I may want a smaller lathe for spindle turning, and smaller turnings, as the Robust seems a like overkill for small things, but I don't have the room. Dream and drool.
robo hippy

 

[KEW]

I have neither machine, but have taken a "no rush" approach to researching what I want for my final lathe (currently the PM).

IMHO, the JET is a well built and good machine. The PM is an OVERBUILT and good machine (the extra $1000 isn't just 300# of cast iron).

How many years do you expect to continue turning? The extra investment for the PM gets you a bulletproof machine which should last a hobbiest a very long time with a minimum of worries. $1000 isn't much money if it is spread over 30 years and I would say it is easily worth it. 15 years is about where I would put the breaking point (but this is more a reflection of my own budget than anything else).

I guess what I am saying is that they are both great machines. Your personal circumstances are really what needs to make the decision. I have heard VERY few complaints against either. Occassionally a Jet 1642-2hp owner will decide they want to upgraded to the PM, but that is very rare.

One last thing to check - a few people regret the PM because the tailstock is so heavy. If you are an experienced turner you should have a sense of how often you remove the tailstock. Since both of these lathes have sliding headstocks, I would remove the tailstock every time I turn a bowl.

I hope this helps.

 

[4mikee]

I've owned both machines. I'm currently the owner of the PM. It's a tough decision. After selling my 1642 and using the PM I came to the conclusion that I could have made do longer with the 1642 but I wouldn't be able to turn and core those larger pieces. Other than the added weight and more robust components of the PM I don't see a huge difference although there are some. As said, if you want to turn large pieces shoot for the PM. As an example when I started turning 3 or 4 years ago it was with a jet mini. Within 6 months I bought the 1236. Within a year I sold the 1236 and bought the 1642. Guess what, within about 6 or 8 months I sold the 1642 and bought a 3520b. The moral of this story is, if you've got the bug and think you may need the larger lathe, save some time and money and go for the PM. If not you may be just as happy with the 1642 and the extra tools. Hope this helps a little.

 

[john lucas]

I own the older 3520A and love it. One of the biggest dislikes of the 1642 jet is the handwheel, or lack of it. They put a makeshift kind of tube wheel on top of the motor and you can easily pinch your fingers on it. The Powermatic has a real handwheel that works.
I wholeheartedly agree that most of us don't turn really big work but occasionally you turn an off center piece or out of balance piece. On these the extra weight and large swing are worth every penny. I added 300 lbs to my 3520 so I don't think you can have too much weight.

 

[Charlie Harley]

"Fine Working" recently ran a test where, among other larger lathes, they compared the Jet and Powermatic that you're looking at.

They both were highly rated, but the mustard machine was voted as the best of the crop.

My next (and probably last) machine will be a 3520B, and I currently turn on a Jet 1236.

 

[waltben]

Can't help but add a few words. I've turned on both and like them. My club has the Jet and I've demonstrated on it several times. The PM is much bigger, the tailstock much heavier - but that's not a bad thing. My large lathe is a Stubby 750 that weighs about 730 lbs with nothing added. The weight is a significant part of any large lathe feeling steady and smooth operating. I've added 2" riser blocks on my Stubby's headstock to gain extra swing (now 18") with no effect to how it operates. Since I almost exclusively turn bowls with it, the headstock has been on the floor in a corner of my garage for over a year now. A different aspect is if you're interested in bowl turning only, I'd suggest looking at the Vega, VB and Stubby. Draping yourself over a lathe bed isn't the way to go unless you have to.

 

[Richard Baker]

I LIKE the "hand tube" on the 1642-2, and glad to have it rather than a "wheel". That said, my original 1642-2 was somewhat of a "lemon", and it took some months to resolve the problem. Mostly my fault, I think. In the end, Amazon sent me a completely new lathe and I returned the original with all its accessories.

Bottom line, am happy with the (replacement) Jet, glad I bought it, have turned segmented pieces to 15-1/2" (but it must be 15-3/4", round, and centered when you put it on the lathe).

Oops. Actual bottom line: If you have the extra grand, get the PM. Forget saving some of the money for accessories and get the lathe. You have income from somewhere, so money will appear for accessories as your skills and interests develop and you learn what stuff you really need. Five years from now you will never miss the extra grand.

Another oops. Just violated my code to never give personal advice. Please ignore everything I just wrote.

 

[KEW]

The PM is much bigger, the tailstock much heavier - but that's not a bad thing.

Draping yourself over a lathe bed isn't the way to go unless you have to.

Walt,
From my perspective, the sliding head is the ideal design (though I must admit I've never seen a Stubby in action and the design really intrigues me). It allows you to turn the outside of a bowl or HF with the safety advantage of the tailstock, then you remove the tailstock and slide the headstock so you have wide open access just as you would for a bowl lathe. Since the headstock position is variable you can fine tune it to each project so you only have enough bed to allow the tool rest to be where you need it.
Of course this means you are removing and replacing the tailstock frequently, thus the concern for the weight.

 

[Dale Bright]

I have had my 1642 2hp for about 5 weeks now. My other lathe is a mini Rikon. I wanted the PM 3520 but my budget would now allow it and I realized I can add weight and I can add an outboard rest for turning at the tail stock end of the lathe for bigger piecies, if I can find wood that big.

So far I am very happy with the lathe. I have turned on a Stubby, a large Oneway and the PM 3520 and they are all great but for the work I am doing now and with the budget consideration I can not see enough difference to spend the extra money. If turning becomes an income generator I will probabaly feel differently.

My next purchases for the lathe will be a coring system and a outboard tool rest for turning at the end of the lathe.

 

[Jerry Hall]

The 1642 is longer

and that can be good and bad. Good for spindles, bad for shop space. Also a 16" swing only nets perhaps a 12" bowl. Both machines are sweet. I have helped friends setup one of each in the last month. I opted for the greater power, weight, swing and shorter length for my little shop.

 

[turner23]

Great Advice..

Thanks to all who replied...definitely gave me some things to think about. I see what you all say about yielding a finished piece smaller than the actual swing, but I've got a good bandsaw to cut my rough blanks round before turning, so that shouldn't be a big deal (on my 10" Jet Mini, I can easily get a 9.5" finished bowl). Also, I've already got all of the tools I'd need for a while, plus a few chucks, so money for accessories isn't important now...I've only been turning 4 years, but I picked it up pretty quick. I don't know that I'll ever turn professionally or in production, but as a hobby I don't see myself ever quitting.

Thanks again for all the great tips!!!

 

[Luther Vann]

I own a PM and the Jet. Having both I would buy the PM every time. It is just a better machine--take it from a Tool & Die Maker. You will not be sorry if you buy the PM.

 

[Richard Baker]

Welcome

Hey Luther,
Welcome to the forum! We can use the expertise and advice of a tool and die maker from time to time. Hope you will continue to participate.

 

[Aaron G+11]

More is more. Go for the mustard monster. Especially if you are going to turn more "creative" pieces (off center and multi axial) Even if you not interested in it now, you may wish to experiment later.

With regards to selling, I make much more money on bottle stoppers and other small items, but it is the 20" plus bowls that bring them over to my booth.

Finally, to find large wood contact you local arborist or just listen for the melodic hum of a chain saw. Most will be happy for you to take it.

 

[hockenbery]

Most average turners would do much better work if they bought the jet and spent the other $1000 on a turning class.

The jet is a real good machine the Powermatic is a better one.
for a long time the Powermatic was $500 less than Jet and most people chose the Powermatic
a $1000 spread makes it a decision point.

If you spend 20+ hours a week actually turning go for the powermatic.

Very few people are actually at the lathe 20 hours a week.
remember all those things you do before and after the lathe.

If you usually spend less than 10 hours a week on the lathe get the Jet.

Happy Turning,
Al

 

[4mikee]

Most average turners would do much better work if they bought the jet and spent the other $1000 on a turning class.
Al

One more comment. I agree with Al. I’ve been the route you are on and I sold enough pieces to buy the tools I wanted (not the same as needed). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to give up the 3520 but I can’t tell you where it made me a better turner only a larger turner. I don’t have access to a club (closest are two hours) but professional instruction is where I think my bang for the buck is. After all we all strive to be better turners I think. Four years after starting and being self taught I’ve hit a plateau of sorts and have actually turned less. I’ll probably start a new thread on this subject but in reference to Al’s comments, where do you start searching for professional instruction after this period of time and in what area of turning.
Thanks

 

[dkulze]

Yup to the lessons. If there is a turning club nearby, you can likely get as much mentoring as you can handle from folks ranging from hobbyist to expert. This will help alot but won't substitute for a 2-5 days lesson from a master.

I haven't paid for wood in years. I nurtured a relationship with my local tree lot (the place where arborists pay to dump their big logs) and regularly decend on them with friends and chainsaws. Notably, it took a couple of years of thoughtful interactions before they were comfortable with my doing this and I'm careful not to abuse the privilige.

dietrich

 

[hcbph]

Jet vs Powermatic

I do mainly spindle work, but I have turned on both a 3520B and I own a Jet 1642-2. Remember both have many similarities (same parent company): sliding headstock, bed extensions, EVSR just to mention a few. You can lower the extension bed on the 3520B, drilling 4 holes you can do the same on the Jet. Vicmarc external stand has been adapted to the Jet, and probably to the PM also.

I've had to turn some splayed legs on my Jet and with the jig, it was 14" x 60", it handled it just fine. I have turned a couple of large chunks, and because I didn't have any extra weight on the lathe, I did notice it. Not too bad but I did notice it.

Buy either you can afford.

Paul

 

[Eric]

I have a Grizzly G1495 and a Delta mini lathe that I’ve have been using since 2001.

I have decided it’s time for a change and just went through two months of research where I studied lathe manuals, talked with users, and spent some time on various lathes.
My conclusion led me to the PM 3520B which I just ordered from Osolnik Machinery and Supplies.

The deciding factors for me were the design, construction quality, the spindle bearings and their spacing, the weight and the drop down 18†bed extension so I can turn off the end of the machine.

You may not want to turn a 20†bowl, but you may wish to do some off-center work where you’ll soon find you need more room to spin.

I expect the PM will be the last lathe I’ll ever need to buy and something my son will enjoy years after I’m gone.

Good luck and good turning.....