Buffing Process

[Doug Freeman]

There have been plenty of threads/discussions of various compounds, surface speeds, cleaning wheels, how not to get compound in pores, etc. One item I don't remember seeing discussed - most all the compounds use wax and possibly some oil to hold the "brick" together, and I suppose to allow it to stick to the wheel. This wax then transfers to the wood. Who chemically cleans the wax deposit from the wood between compound grits? Before a final wax buff finish?

By chemically I mean using a solvent to dissolve and remove the wax.

I've read many discussions of how different waxes perform, i.e. fingerprints, water spots, flaking off, etc. Leaving the wax from the compound on the surface then finish waxing I suspect gives much different performance of a finish wax vs applying the finish wax to a cleaned surface.

Processes, experiences, opinions? I have my own but want to see what the forum has to say.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I do not clean between buffs , but that seems like it would defeat the purpose of buffing. Any liquid applied would degrade the finish and if you are talking about solids I never see any after buffing. Now as to the wax causing any interference it would not as this is the last step. Now if you have to refinish or add finish yes there would be a problem.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I have never tried to clean the wood chemically between buffing steps. I might try it in the future. I have experimented with buffing bare wood (first two wheels only) prior to adding danish oil or oil-base poly. I liken it to sanding to a much higher grit prior to adding a film finish. I think it does produce a higher gloss sheen than going directly from 400 or 600 grit to the oil. I have not noticed any problems with any buffing residue interfering with the oil. I am thinking that the oil would dissolve any wax residue anyway.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I have never tried to clean the wood chemically between buffing steps. I might try it in the future. I have experimented with buffing bare wood (first two wheels only) prior to adding danish oil or oil-base poly. I liken it to sanding to a much higher grit prior to adding a film finish. I think it does produce a higher gloss sheen than going directly from 400 or 600 grit to the oil. I have not noticed any problems with any buffing residue interfering with the oil. I am thinking that the oil would dissolve any wax residue anyway.

Try using oiless steel wool for buffing bare wood before finishing as long as you are not using water based finish. Its much finer than the box store 0000 stuff.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Try using oiless steel wool for buffing bare wood before finishing as long as you are not using water based finish. Its much finer than the box store 0000 stuff.

I would not use steel wool on raw wood, and I'm thinking on Oak and other wood that have tannin in it, as I would expect to get fine broken pieces of the steel stick into the wood and then have those produce black spots.

I did have this happen with regular 000 steel wool , (I found the 0000 fine breaks up to fast) in my earlier experiments and I basically stopped using steel wool all together after that.

As for cleaning the polishing compounds, if there is any after using the drier Diamond, this would be on top of my finish and it certainly will not interfere with that, especially if the piece is later polished with a cloth and or dusted off, anyway I do think you would ruin the finish if you would use some wax dissolving products, just IMO as I never tried that.

 

[Doug Freeman]

I would not use steel wool on raw wood, and I'm thinking on Oak and other wood that have tannin in it, as I would expect to get fine broken pieces of the steel stick into the wood and then have those produce black spots.

I’ve used it on white and red oak, sycamore, walnut, cherry, maple. No issues. Pieces usually get finish put on soon after buffing but some pieces sit around for a week or 2. Did you by chance use a water based finish, or was the wood dry/at equilibrium?

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I’ve used it on white and red oak, sycamore, walnut, cherry, maple. No issues. Pieces usually get finish put on soon after buffing but some pieces sit around for a week or 2. Did you by chance use a water based finish, or was the wood dry/at equilibrium?

Too long ago Doug to recall the exact conditions, no water based anything, but possible still not totally dry, it does not take a lot of moisture, even going through the oil finish afterward.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I’ve used it on white and red oak, sycamore, walnut, cherry, maple. No issues. Pieces usually get finish put on soon after buffing but some pieces sit around for a week or 2. Did you by chance use a water based finish, or was the wood dry/at equilibrium?

To me the point is not if it did happen to you but that the user should beware that it is possible. Even tho Leo has not had a problem with white diamond in pores others have DAMHIKT

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

To me the point is not if it did happen to you but that the user should beware that it is possible. Even tho Leo has not had a problem with white diamond in pores others have DAMHIKT

And as was pointed out by others the reason this happened was too much buildup and high pressure, like almost trying to fill the pores.

as I said in an earlier reply, I had buildup of the rouge an my buffing wheel, and I probably noticed this on the turning, so then I found the buildup on the buffing wheel, raked it off with a hacksaw blade and have kept an eye on it soaks not to have this happen again.

The buffers need very little charging to work well.

Oh yes I did/do use a hacksaw blade rather than sanding paper, for I don't have any need for a real course grit so I don't have any, and old seldom used paper could have the glue get bad and maybe loose a rock, even one could do a lot of damage on the inside of a bowl, maybe not so much on the outside as it would be flung away, but no experience with it, so just thinking out loud

 

[Doug Freeman]

Well, no one really addressed my question - what is the effect of the compound wax being underneath the finishing wax layer, and does it contribute to the fingerprinting, water spots. and flaking some have reported for carnauba wax.

As for using a wax solvent, such as mineral spirits, naptha, or denatured alcohol to remove compound wax - most people who buff use an oil or oil varnish type of finish which is allowed to cure prior to compound buffing. These solvents have no effect on these cured finishes. The dna might effect a cured lacquer finish if left on for a period of time, but I've not really tested that - I use automotive type polishes to rub out lacquer. If you try this, you will see a finish maybe a bit better than what you started with. It will remove the gloss you saw after buffing, which is just the compound wax. There is no degradation of the oil or varnish finish from using these solvents. It also shows you how much the compound actually polished the surface vs seeing the gloss of the compound wax. Each successive compound lays down another wax film. If you go through 2-3 compounds, a significant wax film has been laid down on the surface. Any final wax finish is then laid down on top of the existing wax. BTW, some of that wax film is transferred to your wax buff. So now you have a nice hard finish wax laid down over whatever unknown wax is blended in with the compound and it is also on your wax buff. Logically it makes sense that the wax layering would negatively effect the performance of the finish wax.

Removing the compound wax and not over-applying the finish wax results in a wax finish that in my unscientific evaluation is much more resistant to smudging and fingerprints, and I have not had wax flake off. I plan to do some water spotting tests for comparison, just haven't gotten there yet. I plan to compare carnauba, microcrystalline (Renaissance), and neutral shoe polish for gloss, smudge/finger print resistance, and water spotting.