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Buffing system?

Fadi Zeidan

Fadi Zeidan

Joined
Jul 5, 2016
Messages
469
Likes
244
Location
San Antonio, TX
hello all,

I'm really new to this, I've been reading on oil finishing and it seem that I need to buff my bowls after applying the Minwax Antique Oil finish. Do I need to buy the Beall buffing system? It seem to be the most discussed buffing system. Any other options recommended?
 
I frequently use Minwax Antique Oil Finish. It is actually a blend of varnish and linseed oil. I generally apply two or three applications, but sometimes I will apply several more coats if I want a high gloss finish. I have never felt a need to buff the finish. The goal of buffing is to increase the surface gloss which can be accomplished by adding another cost of finish. This is more durable than buffing.
 
I love my buffing system. Almost all of my work is buffed any more. It just makes the final finish look that much nicer. I'm not looking for a perfect gloss just a a cleaner look than I get right off the finish. I use 4" buffs instead of the 8" wheels. I still use the Beal wax sticks.
 
Thanks John,

I saw many finishes on YouTube after buffing, I like th shine it provides. I was not sure if I had to buy a buffing system yet. Whoever said the lathe is the small investment of woodturning was not kidding :)

I plan on buying a buffing system after I better understand what I will need and after a while since I've had big initial investment in the lathe and tools last month. I was not sure if I had to have it for Antique Oil finish to get presentable finish.
 
Fadi, I have and use the Beal Buffing system on almost all my Utility bowls (with a food safe finish) that I sell just because it gives a wonderful warm satin finish on them after applying Mahoney's walnut oil. Just add a buffing system to your wish list for the future. It is not what I would call a necessity just one of those tools that once you get used to it you will wonder how you ever did without it. I will say that I never use the carnauba wax any more because of finger prints and water stains but the first two compounds I use all the time. Buffing can improve a good finish but can't do miracles.
 
I use the Beal Buff on most of my pieces. It clears away any dust nibs still there and gives the finish a more "good to feel" touch. Lately I have been Trying Micromesh, but only on film finishes like lacquer and so far get good results with it.
 
Well I agree with the expense. I did an awful lot of turning without the Beal or other buffing systems. If you pay enough attention to sanding and apply a good quality finish it will be fine for most people. In fact I often see poorly sanded pieces and pieces with thick body uneven finishes that the turner used the Beal system and of course it still doesn't look good. It's not the secret to good finishing. it's the final touch to a good finish to add that something extra. Guitars for example are buffed for their final finish. If you look at a guitar the finish is flat, without any torn grain, sanding marks or lumps in the finish. The buffing brings out the final shine. Imagine a guitar with torn grain and a thick finish trying to cover it up. You can do it by applying enough finish but the final look will still be poor. I'm actually using a satin finish now and buffing. It's not a high gloss finish but a very smooth and nice feeling finish. It doesns't appear to have much finish (because it doesn't). It also feels really nice which is I think what it's all about on bowls and my hand mirrors. They are supposed to be held.
 
I think I'm doing ok with the sanding, the few pieces I did, I sanded them down to 600 and took my time doing it walking through the grits. I still tend to leave tool marks and ridges inside the bowls and as you said, I need to do better job with bowls thickness. Overall, happy with my progress and trying to get different finishes to learn more.

I only turn couple of hours on weekends due to my day job and Texas heat (I turn outside) so my progress will be slow but as the weather gets better in couple of months, I should be turning few times a week and longer hours.

Right now I'm buying my blanks and that is getting expensive as I get faster at it. Just purchased blanks for $160 with the shipping cost. I need to invest in the tools and supplies to make and turn free wood down the road.

I'm also very interested in carvings in my bowls as well, so may get dremel and carbide hits for it in the future.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
Right now I'm buying my blanks and that is getting expensive as I get faster at it. Just purchased blanks for $160 with the shipping cost. I need to invest in the tools and supplies to make and turn free wood down the road.
Click to expand...

One of the advantages of a local club is free wood.
Wood is sort of feast or famine for many turners. Those that have share...
Someone in the club always has more wood than they can turn. Some clubs have wood auctions. Others have wood yards. One of our club members brings a truckload of cutoffs from a cabinet shop every month.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
I think I'm doing ok with the sanding, the few pieces I did, I sanded them down to 600 and took my time doing it walking through the grits. I still tend to leave tool marks and ridges inside the bowls and as you said, I need to do better job with bowls thickness. Overall, happy with my progress and trying to get different finishes to learn more.

I only turn couple of hours on weekends due to my day job and Texas heat (I turn outside) so my progress will be slow but as the weather gets better in couple of months, I should be turning few times a week and longer hours.

Right now I'm buying my blanks and that is getting expensive as I get faster at it. Just purchased blanks for $160 with the shipping cost. I need to invest in the tools and supplies to make and turn free wood down the road.

I'm also very interested in carvings in my bowls as well, so may get dremel and carbide hits for it in the future.
Click to expand...

I'm in the same situation with the Texas heat because I also roll my lathe out of the garage and turn on the driveway. It looks like you might be a member of the Alamo Woodturners. If they are like my club, the Woodturners of North Texas, that is usually a good resource for finding free wood. It's hard for a new woodturner to announce that they are looking for free wood at a club meeting, but you will be surprised how eager other woodturners are to share wood that they have found ... especially with new turners. So, be brave and let fellow club members know that you are looking for wood to turn.
 
Yea, free wood is everywhere once you meet up with other turners. If you own a chainsaw and give a few bowls to neighbors even more wood is available. This thread started as a buffing thread but I turned for many many years without ever buffing. My finishes were good enough to sell work. I like the way my work looks now with the finishes I'm using the buffing but that was just a sort of evolution on my part. If you took away my buff's I'd find another way to do it.
 
I do the same Bill, I roll my lathe to the driveway and turn in the morning till the sun hits my driveway. I do plan to attend Alamo Woodturners meetings next month, I need to contact them and see if there are any requirements before I go.

As far as polishing goes, sounds like I could use one to get better finish. I have long list of things I need to buy, so matter as well bite the bullet and get them. Any recommendations? Beall system still the better option?

I don't plan on selling, but at some point I will have more bowls than I can give away, so I'm thinking if I ever get decent at it, I may sell them on etsy and donate the money to animal shelters. Turn a hobby into a good cause.
 
Johnson's Paste Wax is my preferred method of applying a wax finish. I have a Beall buffing system, but rarely use it any more because I can get a nice semigloss finish when using the paste wax over an oil finish. From my personal experience I now don't buy things unless I know that I really them. I have a lot of things that I bought in my early days of turning that are just taking up space.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
. I do plan to attend Alamo Woodturners meetings next month, I need to contact them and see if there are any requirements before I go..
Click to expand...

All but one of the clubs I know of welcome drop in visitors. The one exception meets in private community clubhouse and you need to have your name in the visitors list to get past the guard.
 
Not an expert by any means but our chapter had a demonstration by Mark Sillay of Atlanta. He polished two turnings on the Beale system. He got a finish that looked like glass.
 
Thanks guys! I will definitely go to next meeting next month.

I used Minwax Antique Oil Finish for the first time this weekend, applied 1st coat waited 5 mins then rubbed it off. Repeated it next day, and on the 3rd day rubbed it with Johnson's paste wax. The finish is ok, but can be much better. I need to get better sanding results so I need to get better at it. Sanded down to 600 but did not do a good job. I'm getting the 2" blue flex discs from Vinceswoodnwonder site to power sand.

What is your process for finishing? Any preference of oil, wax?
 
I sand domestic hardwoods and alien species such as camphor, eucalyptus, citrus
To 320. Further sanding of these woods does little to improve the surface.
Higher grits work on smoothing the finish not smoothing the wood.
I use waterlox which is similar to the min wax.
After the first coat dries I hand sand with 400
After subsequent coats I use 0000 scotchbirte to level the finish.
Last step is beal buffing that smoothes the surface of the built up waterlox.

I should add that some exotics require higher grits.
Ebony is like glass and raw ebony shows scratches at 1200.
 
I'm with Al. I usually sand to 400 grit and find that under a finish you can't really tell the difference. Lately I've been sanding to 600 grit. Not because it improves the look but because it seems to take less finish to get the same final results. As Al said some woods simply need higher sanding. Only experience will tell. Most of the problems I see on new turners work is simply not sanding completely with the lower grits. You have to learn to see tearout, deep scratches and other defects and get rid of those before you step up to the next grit. Look very closely. Each grit should have a very even appearance everywhere. By that I mean you should only see sanding scratches of the same size. If you see a dull or uneven colored area that is a place that hasn't been sanded enough. Stop the lathe and hand sand that area. Then step up in grit and look closely again. Usually once you get the whole piece to have the same scratch pattern with the first couple of grits then you can sand through the rest of the grits with little effort.
 
I have had good success using a friction polish finish on the lathe after sanding the piece.
This method is quick and easy and you can apply multiple coats of finish in minutes with great results.
I have made a variety of friction polishes this last year, it is easy to make a custom blend to work with different woods depending on the finish desired.
 
I'm spending more time sanding than I am turning, but I don't see my mistakes until I apply the finish. I'm practicing and trying to refine my sanding skills.

Mike, you make your own blend of friction polish? I have one piece that was finished using friction polish that I did in class at Woodcraft store.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
I'm spending more time sanding than I am turning, but I don't see my mistakes until I apply the finish. I'm practicing and trying to refine my sanding skills.
Click to expand...

With practice you will get clean cuts with a gouge that will greatly reduce the sanding time.
You also get a lot faster with the turning...

Scrapers can sometimes improve on the surface left by the gouge.

Hunter carbides leave excellent surfaces
 
I have the simple ahear cutting finisher from Harrison Specialties. Any recommendation on which Hunter tools?

http://www.harrisonspecialties.com/...tipped-turning-hollowing-tool-without-handle/

I want to transition to gouges after I find a class or someone to teach me how to use them and sharpen them. I am looking for someone, hopefully in Texas, who would provide small or one on one few days class. May find someone in next local chapter meeting.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
I have the simple ahear cutting finisher from Harrison Specialties. Any recommendation on which Hunter tools?
Click to expand...


It depends on what you want to do. I prefer the #4 for inside bowls. John Lucas says the Hercules is great for bowl hollowing. If you are hollowing ornaments there is a terrific set of which I just got the shoulder tool at the Symposium. And the list goes on as he expands his line of tools. Like Al said learn how to sharpen and use your bowl gouge and it will pay dividends in the future. By the way most Hunter tools are geared for hollowing.
 
Bill Boehme said:
... From my personal experience I now don't buy things unless I know that I really them. I have a lot of things that I bought in my early days of turning that are just taking up space.
Click to expand...

Amen to that. I bought all that stuff I "needed" and so now that I'm learning what I really need - as opposed to just want - I'm selling off stuff.

Fadi, I would suggest that you consider John's point about getting a chainsaw. Its up front cost will quickly pay for itself in blanks you didn't have to buy. Also, if there's a local tree service you might ask them if you can swing by before they start chipping. Or if the county does tree work, they may have some for you too.

I have friends (many of whom have received bowls, etc) who come to work and mention that there's a tree sectioned off somewhere and I'll make a lunchtime excursion to get it.

Oh, and my entire family knows that all I really want for Christmas is exotic lumber :D
 
Gerald Lawrence said:
It depends on what you want to do. I prefer the #4 for inside bowls. John Lucas says the Hercules is great for bowl hollowing. If you are hollowing ornaments there is a terrific set of which I just got the shoulder tool at the Symposium. And the list goes on as he expands his line of tools. Like Al said learn how to sharpen and use your bowl gouge and it will pay dividends in the future. By the way most Hunter tools are geared for hollowing.
Click to expand...

Gerald, I got the Hunter based on a conversation with John and love it. I use it for small box interiors and small, deep bowls instead of a bottom gouge. John's videos on it are very helpful too. But it sure isn't a substitute for learning to sharpen.
 
Chainsaw will come with time. I don't feel I'm at a point to buy one and start cutting my own blanks but I do see the value of doing so down the road. I need to hone my turning skills and see where that takes me first.

The reason I'm asking about the Hunter tools is that they have many, #4, #5, #3 Hercules, and Osprey. #4 and #5 seem to be similar to Harrison Specialties ones.

I will look for john's videos...

By the way, thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the help and Patience!
 
That Harrison tool appears to be similar to a Hunter #5. Don't use it flat with the face up. It will not cut clean and give you catches. Using it with the bevel rubbing like a blunt ground bowl gouge will give very good results. Here is my video showing how I use the #4 or #5 as well as some other tools.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfp2kvhH6Mo
 
Thanks John!

Turns out I've been watching your videos but did not make the connection that it is you :)

I'm very impressed with the hunter tools in your videos. Looks like the #4 is similar but better than Harrison Specialties Simple Shear Cutting tool since it allows you to ride the bevel. The rest are unique for each product. Harrison Specialties are more like Easy Wood Tools.

I think I may go with the Osprey and Hercules in couple of months. I'm really impressed by the videos
 
Fadi, you will likely be pleased. I had a couple of the Easy Wood tools. Very nice but I just couldn't get used to them.

You can't go wrong watching Johns videos either!
 
You reallly only need one. The Osprey and Hercules do the same thing. The Hercules is better if you are a new turner and plan to use it mostly as a scraper. It is still easy to use as a bevel rubbing tool. The Osprey is better for turners who learned on the bowl gouge. Because it has a round shank and the nose of the tool is similar to the bowl gouge you would use it in a push cut the same as bowl gouge. When the Osprey is used as a scraper it takes more concentration to keep the tool relatively flat. With the Hercules the tool simply sits on the large flat shank. The Hercules is a little better for roughing really out of round bowl blanks than the Osprey. For experienced turners both of those tools work pretty much the same. The two tools I use the most are the Osprey and the #5. I use the Osprey when I need a cleaner cut than a bowl gouge will give me. I use the #5 as a bottom cleaner or a way to finish of deep steep sided vessels like box bottoms or Calabash bowl shapes.
 
Mark Hepburn said:
Amen to that. I bought all that stuff I "needed" and so now that I'm learning what I really need - as opposed to just want - I'm selling off stuff.

Fadi, I would suggest that you consider John's point about getting a chainsaw. Its up front cost will quickly pay for itself in blanks you didn't have to buy. Also, if there's a local tree service you might ask them if you can swing by before they start chipping. Or if the county does tree work, they may have some for you too.

I have friends (many of whom have received bowls, etc) who come to work and mention that there's a tree sectioned off somewhere and I'll make a lunchtime excursion to get it.

Oh, and my entire family knows that all I really want for Christmas is exotic lumber :D
Click to expand...

CraigList is a great resource for finding freshly cut wood, I also run across retired woodworkers cleaning out their inventory and many times you
can get a great deal on hardwoods for pennies on the dollar. When a listing is posted on CraigsList for a tree that has been cut down, depending
on the wood species these can go quickly if the firewood guys are looking for wood. You will also find the local tree cutters who are processing trees
into slabs and billets. I usually do a search on "woodworking" ,"wood" and "lathe" several times a day and look for new postings.
 
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