Buying a new large lathe

[Ben King]

I know this topic has been beat to death, but I'm still on the fence between a Laguna 2436 and a Powermatic 3520C. I've spent countless hours researching old threads on the topic from various forums.

I am a woodworking/engineering/computer aided drafting teacher at a high school and have a 3520C at school, it's a great lathe! My thought is to buy the Laguna for at home turning for a bit less money, more HP and bigger swing since my main goal is to turn large bowls. In terms of equipment, I already have a dust collector (I 3d printed one myself), a grinding station and all the tools I would need minus a coring system and a captured hollowing system but those will be bought at a later date.

If I ever outgrow the lathe, my plan would to to make a custom one myself since I know how to weld and machine and have access to a metal shop.

Is this realistic or should I just pony up and get the PM knowing it's a great lathe with an incredible resale value if I do ever outgrow it?

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Have you considered a Robust lathe?
Maybe too much $.

 

[Ben King]

$5500 is about the top I'd want to spend since this is a hobby. Which puts the PM right at the limit.

I did look at (not in person) the Oneway and Robust lathes, but they are out of reach for now.

 

[Tom Albrecht]

You really should take an hour's drive down to Barnaveld and take a spin on the American Beauty, made right there in Wisconsin.

 

[Pat Hickey]

I teach at a local high school and luckily the wood shop teacher purchased Laguna lathes. I really enjoy my experience with them. The 2436 is a beast and can handle most anything from large bowl blanks to small finials. However, PM’s are really nice also. I know this might not help.

 

[Dean Center]

Ben, when you say the lathe would be for 'large bowls', how large do you mean? The 3520, with a lot of care, can turn out an 18" bowl. Larger with the bed extension. The Laguna could do a 22" bowl, plus or minus depending on the banjo, which I haven't seen. Members of the forum who sell bowls report there's very little interest in bowls over about 14". Would that differentiate them for you?

Second thought. We just had a coring demo for our club, using our high school shop's 2 powermatics. Both the Oneway and McNaughton systems bogged down at times on the 2 hp of the 3520A and 3520B. Not sure if the C has a stouter motor, but I believe the Laguna has a little higher rating. (though it could be a Craftsman style rating). That might be another important consideration, if they are functionally different and you plan to do much coring.

Lastly, the Laguna service and the Powermatic service have historically been different, with Powermatic being superior. Recently, comments suggest Laguna's service may have improved and Powermatic's may have slipped. In general, lathe's don't tend to have a lot of problems and you have the skill set to do a lot of troubleshooting, but it's another consideration.

 

[Dean Center]

I teach at a local high school and luckily the wood shop teacher purchased Laguna lathes. I really enjoy my experience with them. The 2436 is a beast and can handle most anything from large bowl blanks to small finials. However, PM’s are really nice also. I know this might not help.

Sorry to go off topic.

Pat, you might suggest he angle the lathe's slightly. It's what we do at our local high school shop, and it gets the neighboring turner out of the 'line of fire', without taking up any more room.

 

[robo hippy]

Between those 2 lathes I would take the PM. One, I prefer the headstock design since the mounting point for your chuck is a bit closer to the headstock than the Laguna. I don't know about the mobility set up for the PM, but the Laguna one is in the way if you turn off the end, and I always turn bowls off the end of the lathe so I don't have to bend over or reach out away from my body to turning bowls. As for horsepower, the 2 hp is plenty. My Vic 240 has 2 hp, and that works great for bowls of all sizes. It does have 3 speed ranges, which is what I prefer. Not sure what the speed ranges are for the PM or the Laguna. With my old A, it would go up to 1500 in the low range. When they changed to the B, that went down to 1200, which for me is too slow for some of my smaller bowls, like under 10 to 12 inches, but I did production work. Also, I prefer a minimum rpm of almost zero. With the B, it would shut off at 50 rpm. I need 10 to 15 rpm for sanding my warped bowls. The concern was that the motor would over heat. For me, it actually ran cooler than when I turned. I do make my lathe work.....

As for the coring problems that Dean mentioned, I would guess that the coring was done in the high speed range. With my Vic and my AB, both of which have 3 speeds, I core in the mid range. High range is good for high speed turning, but it tends to bog down when coring, most likely due to torque issues. With the McNaughton, the blade always drifts to the outside as you core. This can lead to the blade binding in the kerf. From years of practice, I know when it is doing this, and open up the kerf more. This is one thing that can lead to binding and stalling the lathe.

robo hippy

 

[GRJensen]

I went with the Powermatic 3520C. I looked at the Laguna, but I had such poor customer support from Laguna on one of their cyclone dust collectors, I ultimately decided not to put myself through that again. I have had only had one issue with the PM (intermittent problem with the power switch). When I called Powermatic, the tech gave me a work-around, overnighted me a replacement switch, and gave me a case number and his direct phone number if I needed help installing the new switch. The replacement switch was an easy install and solved the problem. And in case you are wondering, I sold the Laguna dust collector for a fraction of what I paid for it and replaced it with Oneida Supercell. No more Laguna tools for me.

 

[Jerry Bochenek]

Another plus for the Powermatic is that it comes with a 5 year warranty and I believe the Laguna comes with a 1 year warranty.

 

[Ben King]

Ben, when you say the lathe would be for 'large bowls', how large do you mean? The 3520, with a lot of care, can turn out an 18" bowl. Larger with the bed extension. The Laguna could do a 22" bowl, plus or minus depending on the banjo, which I haven't seen. Members of the forum who sell bowls report there's very little interest in bowls over about 14". Would that differentiate them for you?

Second thought. We just had a coring demo for our club, using our high school shop's 2 powermatics. Both the Oneway and McNaughton systems bogged down at times on the 2 hp of the 3520A and 3520B. Not sure if the C has a stouter motor, but I believe the Laguna has a little higher rating. (though it could be a Craftsman style rating). That might be another important consideration, if they are functionally different and you plan to do much coring.

Lastly, the Laguna service and the Powermatic service have historically been different, with Powermatic being superior. Recently, comments suggest Laguna's service may have improved and Powermatic's may have slipped. In general, lathe's don't tend to have a lot of problems and you have the skill set to do a lot of troubleshooting, but it's another consideration.

I have a couple 16"-18" bowls already turned on the schools 3520, I would like to do larger if wood is available. The selling isn't a huge aspect for me, I do plan on maybe selling, but for right now, it is squarely in the hobby realm.

I have bogged down the 3520C at school when I really get after it rough turning, that is kinda why I'd like 3hp, but also with coring systems.

Warranty is a consideration, but not a deciding factor.

I went with the Powermatic 3520C. I looked at the Laguna, but I had such poor customer support from Laguna on one of their cyclone dust collectors, I ultimately decided not to put myself through that again. I have had only had one issue with the PM (intermittent problem with the power switch). When I called Powermatic, the tech gave me a work-around, overnighted me a replacement switch, and gave me a case number and his direct phone number if I needed help installing the new switch. The replacement switch was an easy install and solved the problem. And in case you are wondering, I sold the Laguna dust collector for a fraction of what I paid for it and replaced it with Oneida Supercell. No more Laguna tools for me.

I have the same problem but have never contacted customer support. Looks like I'll be doing that tomorrow to see how support is.

 

[guy laizure]

Laguna customer service is severely lacking.Also problems with on/off switch snd speed control

 

[Marvin Jones]

Between those 2 lathes I would take the PM. One, I prefer the headstock design since the mounting point for your chuck is a bit closer to the headstock than the Laguna. I don't know about the mobility set up for the PM, but the Laguna one is in the way if you turn off the end, and I always turn bowls off the end of the lathe so I don't have to bend over or reach out away from my body to turning bowls. As for horsepower, the 2 hp is plenty. My Vic 240 has 2 hp, and that works great for bowls of all sizes. It does have 3 speed ranges, which is what I prefer. Not sure what the speed ranges are for the PM or the Laguna. With my old A, it would go up to 1500 in the low range. When they changed to the B, that went down to 1200, which for me is too slow for some of my smaller bowls, like under 10 to 12 inches, but I did production work. Also, I prefer a minimum rpm of almost zero. With the B, it would shut off at 50 rpm. I need 10 to 15 rpm for sanding my warped bowls. The concern was that the motor would over heat. For me, it actually ran cooler than when I turned. I do make my lathe work.....

As for the coring problems that Dean mentioned, I would guess that the coring was done in the high speed range. With my Vic and my AB, both of which have 3 speeds, I core in the mid range. High range is good for high speed turning, but it tends to bog down when coring, most likely due to torque issues. With the McNaughton, the blade always drifts to the outside as you core. This can lead to the blade binding in the kerf. From years of practice, I know when it is doing this, and open up the kerf more. This is one thing that can lead to binding and stalling the lathe.

robo hippy

One of the things I noticed after changing the VFD on my 3520B from the old Delta to the Lapond is that I now have very slow rotation if needed. I think I read somewhere a cooling fan is needed on the motor if very slow speed is used for extended periods of time. I use the slow speed for applying wipe on poly so I run it really slow only short periods of time.
I programmed my new drive using someone's writeup, I would never have known how without it. I said all of this to say, I'm wondering if the original VFD could have been reprogrammed to slow it down to the 10 to 15 rpms, which mine now will.....some communication with a Powermatic tech should be able to comfirm if this is possible.

 

[John Hicks]

Look at the Harvey T60-s

 

[Dean Center]

As for the coring problems that Dean mentioned, I would guess that the coring was done in the high speed range. High range is good for high speed turning, but it tends to bog down when coring, most likely due to torque issues. With the McNaughton, the blade always drifts to the outside as you core. This can lead to the blade binding in the kerf. From years of practice, I know when it is doing this, and open up the kerf more. This is one thing that can lead to binding and stalling the lathe.

robo hippy

Reed,
The high speed range was clearly worse, but we bogged down occasionally on low speed, too. I suspect our lack of your level of experience and ability to recognize when the shavings are starting to bind is the other main factor.

The McNaughton demo was also adversely affected by the turret/cutting edge being too low. Partly it was the lock on the Powermatic banjo post not holding tight and partly it was the hose clamp I had affixed as the height setting device not holding either. After the demo, I went right home and made a hard wood spacing cylinder, as you have suggest in your video.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Suggest you include the Grizzly G0766 in your selection process. @Roger Chandler is a great source on info for it.

 

[Robert Satterfield]

Ben, you don't have to drive to Barneveld to take a spin on an AB...

 

[Ben King]

Look at the Harvey T60-s

I did take a look at the T60. Do you have any personal experience with the lathe? The servo drive interests me

Ben, you don't have to drive to Barneveld to take a spin on an AB...

I'll send you a private message.

 

[Wayne Terpstra]

I know this topic has been beat to death, but I'm still on the fence between a Laguna 2436 and a Powermatic 3520C. I've spent countless hours researching old threads on the topic from various forums.

I am a woodworking/engineering/computer aided drafting teacher at a high school and have a 3520C at school, it's a great lathe! My thought is to buy the Laguna for at home turning for a bit less money, more HP and bigger swing since my main goal is to turn large bowls. In terms of equipment, I already have a dust collector (I 3d printed one myself), a grinding station and all the tools I would need minus a coring system and a captured hollowing system but those will be bought at a later date.

If I ever outgrow the lathe, my plan would to to make a custom one myself since I know how to weld and machine and have access to a metal shop.

Is this realistic or should I just pony up and get the PM knowing it's a great lathe with an incredible resale value if I do ever outgrow it?

Have you looked at the Nova Galaxy I'm just purchased one and so far its pretty impressive for 3 grand

 

[Doug Freeman]

Have you looked at the Nova Galaxy I'm just purchased one and so far its pretty impressive for 3 grand

I’m also a pleased Galaxi owner (3years). I didnt mention it due to the 16” swing, but with the outrigger (works very well) its capable of 29”. It depends on your bowl processing approach. It would require large bowls be started with a face plate vs between centers. A tenon or recess could be cut for a chuck while on a faceplate. It might allow a McNaughton coring system to be used with the outrigger, but not a Oneway or Woodcut system. Something like Trent Bosch’s stabilizer and maybe other articulating systems could be used for hollowing with the outrigger, but these systems are more limited on depth. A big system for deep hollowing (over ~12” I think) needs a lathe bed (Jamieson, Adv Lathe Systems).

 

[Pat Hickey]

Sorry to go off topic.

Pat, you might suggest he angle the lathe's slightly. It's what we do at our local high school shop, and it gets the neighboring turner out of the 'line of fire', without taking up any more room.

I’ll do that, thanks.

 

[RichColvin]

Another consideration for the PowerMatic is that there are loads of add-on parts designed for it. Things I’m referencing include tool posts and even spherical cutting jigs. They may fit other machines, but vendors seem to ensure they will certainly fit the PowerMatic.

The Mustard Monster sites are also available to assist you should you wish to make modifications, or need help with repairs.

That isn’t something often considered when purchasing, but certainly does matter later.

RIch

 

[John Hicks]

I did take a look at the T60. Do you have any personal experience with the lathe? The servo drive interests me


I'll send you a private message.

I've had one for two years now. A beast, but that servo motor is great.

 

[robo hippy]

When I talked to PM about why they changed the minimum speed to 50 rpm, the tech told me 'we have done experiments in our lab and your motor will over heat and you will fry the electronics'. I then told him that I had sanded out thousands of bowls at those speeds and never had any problems. He then repeated himself. When I had Brent English of Robust, help me adjust the ranges he cautioned me about the motor over heating. Well, putting that to the test, and sanding for hours at a time, the motor ran cooler than when I turn. The motor was cool to the touch after a sanding session. No fan is necessary as far as I am concerned. The thing is that the motor is not working when you use those low speeds. If it is working at all, it is as a brake. I have kept the drill on the wood and let the bowl speed ramp up with the lathe off. It can get up to way beyond that 50 rpm. My Vic came with a low speed range about 5 rpm. All of their lathes are like that. No clue as to who started the thing about the lathe running hot when you have it idling. My 3520A was one of the very early models. It had a small fan on the under side of the converter. I had to put some screen over the top of the baffles to keep the wood chips out, which would clog up the fan. Not long after, they removed the fan.

As for coring, with the McNaughton, I always have it set so when fully extended, it is about 1/4 inch above center. One major problem with being set at center height to cut, that works for the first inch or three, but beyond that, the cutting pressure puts the cutting top below center. Since all coring systems are scrapers, like when using standard scrapers on the inside of the bowl, you want to be slightly above center. If you have ever tried to remove that nub from when the core breaks out, if you just touch the tip, it can drop 1/2 inch or more. Below center is worst as you near the center, and as near as I can tell, that is probably the main cause for the catches. I do use a stop collar under the tool rest to keep it at my preferred height. The system is designed to have some flex in it. Now hopefully some time, Kel will figure out that the blades are not bent straight for the last 1 1/2 inches or so, and fix that. Primary reason for the constant drift....

As for stalling the lathe, I was chatting with the late great Bill Grumbine about stalling my lathe, and his comment was some thing like "I have even stalled a VB30." I would add to that that I haven't met a lathe yet that I can't stall. Yes, I am on the Brute Squad for those who are Princess Bride fans.... Horse power is one thing. How much metal you put into the wood is another, and they can cancel each other out...

My favorite headstock design is the Vicmark. The spindle mount is right on the headstock tower. No cone to push your mounting spot farther off of the headstock, which does add to vibration issues.

robo hippy

 

[Ben King]

Looks like with the help of @Robert Satterfield I bought myself a used 3520C!

I picked up the headstock, tailstock and tool rest with the remainder being picked up Sunday. Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Congratulations!

 

[William Rogers]

Congrats on the 3520C. That is a nice lathe. Take your time setting it up, it will be worth it in the long run.

 

[robo hippy]

You are going to have a lot of fun with it. Of course, you will need more 'toys' to go along with the new lathe....

robo hippy

 

[Graham Dolby]

I know it's too late in this thread but my club has a Laguna and it has one infuriating feature. The tool rest is set in the banjo with a cast iron clamp system which doesn't loosen like those on most lathes that use a simple screw method.