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Bylaws Committee

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■Bylaws review committee formed (8/08/10):
AAW President, Tom Wirsing, has set up a special committee to review and make suggested changes to the AAW Bylaws. The goal of the committee will be to work over the next couple of months and have a set of proposed changes put together that can be sent out to the membership with the December 2010 Journal. Tom Wirsing has appointed Ron Sardo and Dale Larson as Co-Chairs of the committee. The committee members come from across the United States and have a wide variety of backgrounds. They include David Walser, Rob Wallace, Jerry Robertson, Mark Mandell, Judy Kingery and David Moore. All are AAW members who have agreed to help out with this important task. If you wish to contact the committee, please email your ideas to this address.

Just found out today that Mr. Jerry Robertson has been blocked from the web-site for this committee. To me, sounds like the same ole same ole.
Because I do know Jerry, I know that he could have written Roberts Rules. We have talked a couple of times about his being on the committee, with me joking with him about keeping the rest of them on the straight and narrow.
Seems as thou they don't want to listen to the right way of doing things.
 
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■Bylaws review committee formed (8/08/10):
AAW President, Tom Wirsing, has set up a special committee to review and make suggested changes to the AAW Bylaws. The goal of the committee will be to work over the next couple of months and have a set of proposed changes put together that can be sent out to the membership with the December 2010 Journal. Tom Wirsing has appointed Ron Sardo and Dale Larson as Co-Chairs of the committee. The committee members come from across the United States and have a wide variety of backgrounds. They include David Walser, Rob Wallace, Jerry Robertson, Mark Mandell, Judy Kingery and David Moore. All are AAW members who have agreed to help out with this important task. If you wish to contact the committee, please email your ideas to this address.

Just found out today that Mr. Jerry Robertson has been blocked from the web-site for this committee. To me, sounds like the same ole same ole.
Because I do know Jerry, I know that he could have written Roberts Rules. We have talked a couple of times about his being on the committee, with me joking with him about keeping the rest of them on the straight and narrow.
Seems as thou they don't want to listen to the right way of doing things.

Okay, Mr. Key,

Time for some openness and transparency and veracity in what we post on these pages. I would like you to reveal your information source for what you have written here. And the reason I would like that person revealed is so that the members and others who frequent this forum can know, at least one person who is spreading lies. You see, Jerry is an integral and productive part of the By-Laws Committee, who has a definite point of view coupled with the ability to see others' views and reach agreement. He is not now, nor has he ever been, banned, blocked or in any way impeded from carrying out his duties and tasks on the committee website.

Again, sir, name the person or we shall have to proceed with the premise that it is actually you that cooked this bit of information.

PS: To keep the record straight, Roberts Rules of Order are used as procedure for meetings. They have nothing to do with corporate by-laws.
 
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R

Ron Sardo

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Just more of the same nonsensical conspiracy theories.

He has never been banned.

Why are you making up stories Mr. Key?
 
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Ron Sardo

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I think we have a honesty, integrity and openness issue going on here.

The silence is deafening.:D
 
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By-laws Comm

It is a real pleasure to see members of the committee respond promptly with a clear statement of facts with no spin!
Thanks Mark and Ron. Please keep it up.
Peter
 
R

Ron Sardo

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Jerry logged onto the bylaws website today.

Mr. Key we are still waiting for your full disclosure.
 
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I think the moderator should delete all but the original post and the last post by Ron Sardo (Bylaw Co-Chair) unless Mark has been named spokesman for the committee.
 
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"I think the moderator should delete all but the original post and the last post by Ron Sardo (Bylaw Co-Chair) unless Mark has been named spokesman for the committee."

Why?
 
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Mark, what additional information do your posts add? Ron is the co-chair not you, he disputed the original post in what I felt was a little testy way. Was there any need for the added messages? Would we all be better served if every committee member lined up and called Mr. Kent a rabble rousing liar?

He needs to be back here with an explanation and more than likely a very strong apology or his post needs to be deleted as many even less accusing messages have been in the past.
 
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Since we are asking for "Time for some openness and transparency and veracity in what we post on these pages", who objected to Al being on the bylaws committee? We have been waiting for that answer alot longer than the issue at hand.

Nick, I believe that if you scroll down or search Al's posts you'll find his stating what the reason was; something to do with his e-mails if I remember correctly. In that situation, I think the "who" is not so important as the "why", but Al should be able to tell you who he sent such e-mails to. Al's running hard right now getting his classes and department started for the new college year, so I don't want to be talking "out of school" on him, but you might get your answer by contacting him directly.
 
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Mark, what additional information do your posts add?

It's called a search for truth, Stuart. There was a falsehood posted here that tended to impune the people who have been working very hard to address the recognized deficiencies in the AAW By-Laws. I didn't call Mr. Key a liar, I asked him for his source. It appears that he has chosen to protect his source even though he now knows the information he posted here was false; not just wrong, but known to someone to be false. I, as a member of the AAW, this forum, and the committee, have every right to make sure that what gets posted here as facts are actually true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think you would like to know who, in fact, is spreading falsehoods, and whether the information posted on these pages can be relied upon by you and anyone else who reads it.
 
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Mark, yes I would like to know if someone deliberately fed him false information if for no other reason than to ask the moderator to ban that person. I stand by my request to have all but the original and the co-chairman's response deleted.
 
R

Ron Sardo

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Mark, what additional information do your posts add? Ron is the co-chair not you, he disputed the original post in what I felt was a little testy way. Was there any need for the added messages? Would we all be better served if every committee member lined up and called Mr. Kent a rabble rousing liar?

He needs to be back here with an explanation and more than likely a very strong apology or his post needs to be deleted as many even less accusing messages have been in the past.


Posts #5, #6 and #7 where meant to be humorous.

In case you fail to see the humor, this is the type of response that "your side" likes to give to people who are volunteering thier time working for AAW.

You don't like it when the shoe in on the other foot, now you know how we feel.
 
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Okay Ron, I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with you. I'll let you, Mark and Mr. Kent sort it out. I am sorry you feel anyone that disagrees with or question you has only one agenda and that is to stir the pot.
 

hockenbery

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Just found out today that Mr. Jerry Robertson has been blocked from the web-site for this committee. To me, sounds like the same ole same ole.
Because I do know Jerry, I know that he could have written Roberts Rules. We have talked a couple of times about his being on the committee, with me joking with him about keeping the rest of them on the straight and narrow.
Seems as thou they don't want to listen to the right way of doing things.

Sounds like the same old same old
Jerry maybe says something about not being able to get onto the web site... Once again build a mountain out of a mole hill.
Sort of like the change to the cover of the journal

-al
 
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Sounds like the same old same old
Jerry maybe says something about not being able to get onto the web site... Once again build a mountain out of a mole hill.
Sort of like the change to the cover of the journal
-al

Al,

Jerry's shown himself to be much smarter and more level-headed than that, so I'd expect him to simply pick up the phone and call, or just e-mail, Ron Sardo to ask what was wrong before doing anything else.
 
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I am sorry you feel anyone that disagrees with or question you has only one agenda and that is to stir the pot.

Your comment is valid and I will attempt to apply less negative "vibe" to those who are questioning and challenging the elected and volunteer AAW members. On the same hand, I would ask that others do not knee-jerk to the conclusion that any of those same elected and volunteer members is manipulating, conspiring, covering up, etc.

Case in point:
Just found out today that Mr. Jerry Robertson has been blocked from the web-site for this committee. To me, sounds like the same ole same ole.
...Seems as thou they don't want to listen to the right way of doing things.
 
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Okay, Mr. Key,

Time for some openness and transparency and veracity in what we post on these pages. I would like you to reveal your information source for what you have written here. And the reason I would like that person revealed is so that the members and others who frequent this forum can know, at least one person who is spreading lies. You see, Jerry is an integral and productive part of the By-Laws Committee, who has a definite point of view coupled with the ability to see others' views and reach agreement. He is not now, nor has he ever been, banned, blocked or in any way impeded from carrying out his duties and tasks on the committee website.

Again, sir, name the person or we shall have to proceed with the premise that it is actually you that cooked this bit of information.

PS: To keep the record straight, Roberts Rules of Order are used as procedure for meetings. They have nothing to do with corporate by-laws.

My source of information happens to be Mr. Jerry Robertson. Husband of the local club president.
He and I had a short talk, I asked him how things were going and that is when he informed me of being blocked from the website.
 
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For those of you that have NOTHING to do but spend time on the computer, reading every post that is made. Then expecting a reply instantly.
Won't happen with me. I have a lot of things going on.
Like a job that keeps me busy between the hours of 7am to 5pm and later at times.
Family, yea I got that along with the other things that go with having a family.
You want to flame me, go for it. When I get back to the computer ON MY TIME then I'll answer.
To those that want to believe I like to make stuff up, go ahead, oh wait my feelings have been destroyed, no sorry that was a gas bubble.
 
R

Ron Sardo

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My source of information happens to be Mr. Jerry Robertson. Husband of the local club president.
He and I had a short talk, I asked him how things were going and that is when he informed me of being blocked from the website.

He has been on the bylaws website in the last 24 hours.
 
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Posts #5, #6 and #7 where meant to be humorous.

In case you fail to see the humor, this is the type of response that "your side" likes to give to people who are volunteering thier time working for AAW.

You don't like it when the shoe in on the other foot, now you know how we feel.

Well Ron, I didn't see any emoticons used to indicate "humor", did i miss them? I was BANNED from the site two years ago for my attempts at humor and the reason given was "sarcastic remarks", rude no humor in the statements. I doubt either you, Owen, or Mark will have a problem with the censure patrol. I on the other hand will probably be chastised for my remarks. Just sayin.....
 
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Then I would guess he [Jerry Robertson] lied to me.

Thank you Mr. Key, that's all I ever asked for. I noted that you remained connected to the forum for a significant period of time after I made my post. Perhaps you were, quite properly, attending to more important matters, and left your computer logged onto the forum.

Now the distasteful job falls to the Committee to "investigate one of our own." From his apparently sincere and valuable efforts on the Committee, I would not have believed this of Jerry. I can only hope he has a credible explanation. Jerry is currently very involved in the SWAT gathering so we can't expect to be able to contact him on something like this until next week.

Thank you again for your disclosure, even though it upsets me to read it.
 
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Stuart,
Your continued cries for action continue in a very negative vein. I request that you begin to post with informative, substantive and positive contributions. And if you wish to request Moderator involvement in a thread, please do so via PM so as not to disrupt the thread.
 
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Gary,
This is twice today that you have misrepresented what happened two years ago. You were simply warned, no more, no less. It expired after seven days. No banned, no barred, simply warned. Please discontinue this issue.
 
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Mark,

No, investigation is not part of the Bylaws Committee's role.
You need the Ethics Commitee.

Brian Finney

Internal investigation is always part of a committee's duty. I'm quite sure we don't need any "outside" help, and not to disappoint some, but we can do so with dignity, decorum, and privacy.
 
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Play by the rules, lead by example.
Because Director(s) not playing by the rules go AAW into this expensive mess.
Get the Ethics Committee in, do it properly.
 
R

Ron Sardo

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Play by the rules, lead by example.
Because Director(s) not playing by the rules go AAW into this expensive mess.
Get the Ethics Committee in, do it properly.

I'm not a advocate of zero-tolerance.

Would it not be simpler to ask Jerry if he had a problem with his internet connection?
 
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Play by the rules, lead by example.
Because Director(s) not playing by the rules go AAW into this expensive mess.
Get the Ethics Committee in, do it properly.

Not sure what rules you're referring to, but there is no rule that I know of that requires trial-by-internet (although it seems many here like that idea).

As I mentioned, Jerry's engaged in volunteering at SWAT. Meanwhile, the committee's work goes on. When he is available and back "in the saddle", the committee will be able to address the issue.

For the time being, this is an internal committee matter, and others, with all due respect, should just stay out of it.

I'll opine, however, that your attempt to use this situation as gun cotton for your gripes against the EC is pretty lame, and a disservice to Jerry Robertson.
 
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I'm not a advocate of zero-tolerance.

Would it not be simpler to ask Jerry if he had a problem with his internet connection?

Ron,

A very reasonable approach that I would condone in these sensitive times. A much better approach than your committee member Mr Mandell was proposing the committee intended to take. Might be worth considering who is authorized to speak on behalf of the Bylaws commitee.

Brian Finney

Now the distasteful job falls to the Committee to "investigate one of our own."
 
R

Ron Sardo

Guest
Ron,

A very reasonable approach that I would condone in these sensitive times. A much better approach than your committee member Mr Mandell was proposing the committee intended to take. Might be worth considering who is authorized to speak on behalf of the Bylaws commitee.

Brian Finney

You have to remember that Mark is a lawyer, and a good one at that.
He is an asset to the bylaws committee and I'm glad to have him working for us.
PLUS! He is doing this at no expense to AAW. (What a guy!)

That said
"Now the distasteful job falls to the Committee to investigate one of our own.
translates into
"Lets give the guy a call and see what he has to say"
 
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