Club Videos

[Ed Heuslein]

We are having a quandary in our woodturning club relative to library videos. Right now, we buy new videos, either VHS or DVD. We then make a VHS and DVD copy of the original then put the original away for safe keeping. The two copies then are available to the club. Only one of these copies can be checked out at a time. Many of us believe this keeps us within the copyright guidelines of making “archival†copies.
There is some reluctance to continue this practice, preferring instead to use only the originals and “eat†the cost of replacing them if/when they are destroyed.
I have done some research and realize that some clubs do only use originals. Most, however, make archival copies. Many have no problems with using pirated copies from any source they can tap.
As I see it, there are two problems involved. One of law, and one of morality. The moral issue is, the video author depends on income from his/her investment and is certainly entitled to that. Any piracy of the video should be prohibited. Then we have the issue of law. Do any of you KNOW what the legal issues are? I don’t care to know what your club does. I only want to know what is right and what is wrong, legally.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Randy]

Not being a lawyer this is mostly my opinion but I did find some information on fair use of copyright material.

Fair Use

A large exception to copyright protection is the "fair use" provision of the copyright laws. Copying a short excerpt from a work without permission is allowed for worthy social purposes such as:

news reports
(Ex. - a reporter quotes from a book about a famous scandal)
comment and criticism
(Ex. - a film critic shows a film clip as part of a review)
parody
(Ex. - a comedian makes fun of a speech given by a famous person)
teaching and research
(Ex. - a teacher distributes copies of a poem to illustrate a lesson)
There are no legal specifications of how much and when one can copy under the fair use provision. When fair use is claimed in a lawsuit, the courts consider the following factors:

The purpose and nature of the use -- Is the copy of the work being used commercially or for nonprofit purposed?
The nature of the copyrighted work -- The permissions for copying videos are different than those for copying text.

The way I see it, if the club is buying a legal copy of the authors work and only making a single copy to check out to the membership, you should be legal. If on the other hand the club in making multiple copies for selling or even giving them away, I believe that the copyright is being violated. The way you described your clubs use of purchased videos is the way our club does it and I do not believe we are violating the copyright of the author's work. We only offer the copy as a means to educate our membership.

 

[Bob M]

Hey Ed:

When I get over my head, I turn to the lady who has put up with me all these years. As you may know, she was in the movie/movie duplication industry for many years. After reading your question, based upon some fairly recent readings, her conclusion was that making an archival copy is OK. Anything beyond that is illegal.

She suggested you might look at the web sites of the MPAA (Motion Picture Assn. of Amer.) or maybe even the FBI. Next time I can get her to sit still, I'll have her look at some of her video newsgroups to see if there's anything there that might answer the question more authoritatively.

Bob

 

[John Nicholas]

Archival Copy

You should look at the actual copyright listed.

Most software license agreements specifically allow you to make a copy for archival purposes.

John

 

[woodwish]

I teach video productions for a living, including the legal issues, so I have faced this many times at work. To be honest it is my opinion (and I am not a lawyer, just a teacher that has crossed this bridge a bunch) that you can not make any copies for any reason by most copyright laws. IF the owner(s) of the copyright allow an archival copy then that is OK, but most don't. That is why there is copy protection of some sort on most professionally duplicated productions.

A father sued Disney several years ago because they had copy protection on their movies and he claimed he should be able to make copies for his kids of VHS tapes since the original would eventually wear out. He lost the case and Disney still does not allow copies for any reason.

As far as making a VHS copy of a DVD, or vice-versa, every copyright law I have ever seen specifically mentions that copies in any other format is forbidden. You bought one copy in one format so that is what you allowed.

If you really want to get picky you bought one copy for one person in private viewing only. If you show it at a meeting then you legally should purchase performance rights to do that, although I bet no one has ever done that for a club meeting. If you check it out to various members then you should have limited distribution or "library" rights, and I doubt if that is even an option with the distributors. Sharing the video among club members is similar to the problems with Napster sharing MP3 files, and the actual laws can get blurry.

To be honest though after saying all that, it all boils down to money. If you started making hundreds of copies and selling them on Ebay for example, then the copyright owners could come after you for monetary damages. Making one copy as you explained may be technically against the copyright, but there was no monetary damage. You have adhered to the spirit of the copyright in that you only have one copy in use by one person, so the chance of the copyright owners coming after you legally is slim to none.

"Fair use" policies for educational use is whole other issue, but that is not what you asked about so I won't get into how those laws are twisted and violated.

Have I ever made a copy of a copyrighted video? I'll plead the fifth on that :cool2:

 

[Steve Worcester]

Sharing the video among club members is similar to the problems with Napster sharing MP3 files, and the actual laws can get blurry.

I would like to clarify something here, Napster (the first version) allowed one person to physically give it to thousands, with no protection. That's where the RIAA came in.

If you have a private talk with many of the makers of these woodturning videos, they find it funny that the chapters ask for a discount on the videos because they feel we pirate them. Our club (Ed's as well) at least allows only one to be checked out at a time. Yes there is the version conversion DVD-VHS. And that would be an interesting discussion with them as to how they would feel.

The copyright and fair use copyright are two different items. The archival copies would not fall under fair use.

 

[Bud]

Club Video's

It was mentioned that comercial producers of software allow archival copying, and that may be so, but woodturning tapes and DVD's do not fall under that catagory.

Our club has an extensive library with over 125 VHS tapes. Our previous policy was to copy tapes when they were purchased and allow both the original and the copy to be lent out. Many of the copies were of poor quality, and not worth watching. It was decided at a recent board meeting that the practice of copying would be stopped, and if a tape or DVD was in great demand we would purchase a extra. The matter was hotly debated, as some thought there was nothing wrong with copying. It was pointed out that seeing as how we were now incorporated, it could become a liability issue.

We recently upgraded our library with the addition of a barcoding system to track the books, tapes and DVD's. We then made the decision to get rid of all the copies and keep only origionals. After disposing of the copies we now have lots of room for additional tapes and DVD's. In the future we will only purchase DVD's, as the quality is much superior, and they last much longer.

Anyway, That's what we are doing.

Bud

 

[Bill Boehme]

Most software license agreements specifically allow you to make a copy for archival purposes.

Being someone who has no legal training, I don't know when to trust my "average person" understanding of "legal speak". For instance, what is the implication of the term "archival" in the sense that it is used for software and some audio/video media? The license usually states that I am allowed to make one copy for archival purposes. This seems to leave the use open to interpretation. Do I safekeep the original to keep it in pristine condition while using a backup and subjecting it to wear and tear? Or does it mean that I safekeep the backup copy and subject the original to wear and tear? What do I do if the original wears out?

Bill

 

[Bud]

Copyright

I just went to the Copyright Management Center at Purdue University for the information listed below, and it pertains to books, video tapes and DVD's.

• As a practical note, assume all works are copyrighted. After careful investigation, if you cannot determine whether a work is copyrighted, secure permission to use that work.

• General Rule - There are many misconceptions that exist when determining whether a work has been copyrighted. The general rule is that all original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression are given automatic copyright. A work need not be registered with the Copyright office for it to receive copyright protection and not all works must display a copyright notice in order to receive copyright protection.

One of the nationally known turners told us he would not donate tapes or DVD's to a club, because if he did, he could count on never making a sale of one to the members of that club, as they would simply make copies and pass them around.

If a club member wants to borrow a tape from his/her club and make a copy for their own use, there is no way to stop them. It is a matter of concience for them. I just think the clubs shouldn't be involved in illegal activities.

Bud

 

[Jake Debski]

.........................................................................................
.......One of the nationally known turners told us he would not donate tapes or DVD's to a club, because if he did, he could count on never making a sale of one to the members of that club, as they would simply make copies and pass them around.

If a club member wants to borrow a tape from his/her club and make a copy for their own use, there is no way to stop them. It is a matter of concience for them. I just think the clubs shouldn't be involved in illegal activities.

Bud

I don't blame any turner for not being willing to just give away a portion of his or her annual income. Our Chapter has discussed this and officially discourages the practice of copying especially from our Club Library. In reality it is impossible to enforce. There are always a few that will cheat or ignore these rules.

 

[Mark Wollschlager]

One problem I have noted about our clubs extensive collection is the variation in quality of the tape/dvd. Some of the DVD's are beginning to fail almost out of the box, either to poor mastering or cheap quality dvd blanks made at home ( by the author, not copies). They have had to return disks several times before receiving a 'good one'.
I would think that most of the turning videos are very small distributions which
are really intended for home/occasional viewing , not for a lending library.

And after talking with the 'librarian' of our clubs collection, they would buy new dvd copies to replace decaying popular vhs tapes. Keeping with copyright and the restrictions set forth in the tape.
My favorite is at the beginning of Frank Sudol's dvd that curses the copier with the CCCB ( Curse Complete Creative Blockage).

mark.