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EZ Vacuum Unit Question

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Working on a tight budget and trying to build a vacuum chuck system. I have gotten a used Gast pump and bought the EZ Vacuum Adapter system from Packards. I will make a chuck using my faceplate, some good 8/4 maple and some PVC pipe couplings - the instructions for the EZ Vacuum adapter show it just sitting in the wood but I feel like I should place a good O ring on the back of it to help the seal. Has anyone else done this and if so what is your advice.

Thanks

Wilford
 
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The easy vac sits in the MT at your headstock. The faceplate needs to seal to your spindle. Sometimes a little tape can help with this.

At the outboard end the the tapered part sets in the hollow spindle. I have never had an issue with the adaptor being able to pull a vacumn at the working end of the headstock spindle.

The drum chuck needs to seal against the spindle. On mine I needed to tape over the setscrew holes to get the seal I wanted.

I happen to have a wood handwheel on the outboard side and the taper part seats against that fine.

If you are inclined to use an "o" ring then I have no doubt that would also work.
 
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Wilford,

The EZ Vac endpiece should be positioned so the it draws in against your spindle's morse taper before you spin on your vac plate or drum chuck. I used an EZ Vac on my old JET 1236, and used a "O" ring to help it seal to the taper. I also used a metal, a nylon, and a rubber washer on the outboard side to provide the best possible seal on that end. With those in place I routinely pulled 28-1/2" of vacuum, and often had the bleed valve cracked to keep from imploding the mounted bowl.

On the outboard end the rubber washer went on first, then the metal, then the nylon followed by the EZ bearing fixture. The rubber made the seal against the outboard end of the spindle; the metal held the rubber in place by compression without twisting it, and the nylon provided the seal for the outboard fixture.

Hope this helps

Mark Mandell
 
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I used the EZ adapter on my previous lathe, a OneWay 1018, and didn't find a need for an o-ring at the MT. It fit tight and snug once the outboard adapter was tighened up. The other posts are correct...the adapter goes on the lathe before you install any chuck, regardless if they are shop-built units or the OneWay drums.


BTW, if anyone needs an EZ adapter, I no longer need the one I have since my Stubby has a built in port. Contact me privately.
 
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Hey Jim,

I got my old one too. I kept mine because there is a slight issue with the spindle's vacuum seal, and I might need the EZ to finish a piece and then do the repair.

Mark
 
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Thanks for asking

Wilford,

Your question could not have come at a better time. I just purchased a used vacuum setup that included the EZ Vacuum, but it did not include any instructions.

Thanks to your timely question and the responses, I think I have it figured out: 1) Make sure there is a good seal between the inboard adapter and the Morse taper and around the spindle threads; 2) If using a faceplate, ensure the seal between it and the adapters that you use to hold the piece.

I plan to make some MDF chucks (http://www.turningwood.com/mdfchucks.htm) if I can find a reasonably priced 1 1/4" x 8 tpi tap. Fifty dollars for a new one is not reasonable since I spent all my money (and then some) on the new JWL-1642-2.

Randy
 
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Thanks to all for the replies - I now have a MUCH better understanding than from just reading the instructions! The instructions and diagrams left a lot to be desired - don't worry about not having them Randy but if you want a copy of the one sheet of instructions that came with mine PM me and I'll send you a copy.

To carry this question now one step further - since the tip goes in the morse taper I will leave a hole through the center of the piece of maple I will mount to my 6 inch face plate. Have any of you had to seal the face plate to the wood or will any leakage be minimal enough to ignore?

Thanks again!!

Wilford
 

Steve Worcester

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Your options for vacuum chuck are to use a dedicated faceplate, buy them from someone like Oneway, or make them yourself, the $50 for the tap gets ammortized pretty quickly.
Steve Worcester
 
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If you make a "plate" chuck by mounting a piece of flat to a faceplate, you should run some adhesive between them to seal; hot-melt is perfect for this.

A note of caution on vacuum chucking is worth making at this point. Many don't understand or forget that with vacuum fixing, your piece is being held on the chuck by atmosphereic pressure, which is, say 15 lbs per square inch. When you hold the piece to the seal and start the pump, the amount of physical pressure PUSHING THE BOWL onto the chuck is determined by the surface area inside the seal's contact ring as a function of the amount of vacuum created. So, if you could pull 30" of vacuum and your seal covered 1 sq. in of area on the bowl, the workpiece would be held as if you placed a 15 lb weight on it. Now, say you make your chuck 6" in diameter and your seal is at the rim, that it all fits inside your bowl. You turn on your pump and pull 30" of vacuum (full vacuum) you can calculate the weight holding your bowl as 3.14 (Pi) x 9 (radius squared) x 15 (air pressure) and you'll find you have 424 pounds pushing on your wood. Best consider your bowl, how thin and strong it is and whether it can survive a 400lb weight pushing against it.

Keep in mind that the example is for a "hard" vacuum at sea level. Any vacuum pump in a woodturner's price range will, at most, pull a bit over 28" and usually a bunch less than that due to imperfect seals in the system. The point, however, is with vacuum chucking you walk a line between not enough pressure to hold the bowl and so much that the piece implodes, usually when you just finished sanding the bottom, you here a "pop", and discover that you have a new funnel or a design opportunity. Thus, pick a chuck whose area under seal will provide enough area to develop the weight needed to hold the piece, but also have a bleeder valve in your vac line within reach so that you can reduce the vacuum (and so the pressure holding the bowl on) if you start to hear your piece creaking and making sounds.

Note further that trying to get a good seal with the rim of a bowl is difficult, if not impossible; it's rare that a bowl runs so deadnuts flat at the rim that it will make such a seal as is needed for vac holding. I see most turners going to drum chucks in a variety of diameters (I use 4, 6, and 8" versions). These are easy to make from Schedule 40 PVC pipe fittings, a 3" faceplate, and some MDF. They also have the advantage of making the vacuum seal on the inside bottom of a bowl where it's likely to be the best place to get a good seal anyway.

Hope this helps

Mark
 
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Relative to Mark's appropriate comments, I believe that Johnny Tolly has a document he created that speaks specifically to the pressure figures...it may even have a table, if I'm recalling clearly. But in a nutshell...if you turn thin...make sure you have a way to back down the pressure or you'll be "redesigning" your piece on the fly!
 
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Adhesive Backed Foam

Steve,

At the vacuum chucking demo you mentioned the type of foam you used for a seal and where you got it. I did not take good notes (and I have slept a few times since then); could you refresh my memory, please.

Randy
 
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Excellent info Mark - I had been warned of implosions and have already built a manifold system with gauge and bleeder valve. I too have questions on the foam - the only foam I have found locally is the weatherstripping at Home Depot. They had 3 grades based on ease of compression - I got the hardest to compress figuring that would be the most dense of the three. I keep reading about getting "closed cell" but never see that terms on any of the material here locally.

Keep the ideas and warnings coming - they are greatly appreciated. If all goes right, I should get mine in operation this weekend!

Wilford
 

Steve Worcester

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Closed cell refers to a foam that is not porous. Usually when refering to neoprene. I have used neoprene of various densities and really like this foam from Mcmaster, but I don't remember what it was eactly. I remember it being pretty soft, gray in color, and adhesive backed.

I have also collected over the years, several sheets of 1/16-1/8" closed cell neoprene. It just has to be soft enough to squish and take up any slight irregularities in the object you are trying to get to seal.
To apply, scuff the backside with sandpaper and apply a thin coat of contact cement to it and the chuck. Aftert the coat dries, apply another and let it dry. Then press the two together and trim it. It is fairly durable, alot more so than the thin grey foam I use.

I have also seen the packing foam used and applied the same way, it is less expensive, but not as duarable as the neoprene.
Steve
 
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Wilford,

McMaster-Car [www.mcmaster.com] sells many different kinds of sheet rubber. Suggest you go to their site and type in No. 8456K12 which will get you to 3/32" adhesive-backed, 30 shoreA, neoprene sheet (12" x 24" @ $15) which is great to cut your seal rings from. You can also navigate their site from there to other types of rubber sheet and sizes.

Mark
 
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Closed cell weatherstripping

Wilford,

I get my sealing material from the local do-all center. I found that neoprene closed cell weather stripping is usually in the marine section as it is used mostly on boats. I have seen it as wide as 1/2", adhesive backed in 25' rolls.
 
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Wal-Mart sells a product intheir craft dept., it is called "Fun Foam" it is inexpensive and comes in many colors, and it works very well on the vac. chucks. :)
 
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Thanks

Thanks to all for your help. The system is coming together and should be operating this week. Even before I put a rebuild kit into the used pump I am being able to hold 24 - 25 inches of vacuum. I have found a foam seal from Frost King that is supposed to be a Neoprene closed cell foam - 3/4 inch wide and 10 foot long for about $2.50 at HD. I had made a chuck with a 4inch PVC coupling. I found out the coupling was oval not round when put on the lathe. I tried truing the PVC coupling with a skew - was glad I had my face shield on when it sent plastic shrapnel at me!!!! Apparantly I got a bad coupling. Picked up another one at the lumber yard today and will try again!

I got 6 1x8tpi nuts at Fastenal yesterday and plan on making a series of chucks with nuts glued to wood as suggested and adding various PVC couplings to face of wood with foam seal. Will keep you posted.

Wilford
 
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Caveat

Wilford,

Knew there was something I forgot about making your own chucks. Is your spindle threaded all the way to the shoulder? If not, those 1x8 nuts you're going to use will not seat properly because they will only tighten to the end of the threads; leads to wiggle in the face plate/chuck. You can help the situation with a 1" washer, but they are rarely uniform and can still wobble. Best solution is to have the nuts' threads "relieved" about 3/16" which allow the nut to snug tight to the spindle shoulder.

Mark
 
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Thanks Mark,

Mine threads far enough that over half the nut is still on the threads and I am getting a vacuum tight seal between the nut and shoulder. Actually better than I get with my face plate, I have to duct tape it. I made 4 chucks out of nuts, 8/4 maple and PVC pipe couplings - 1.5 inch, 2 inch, 3 inch and 4 inch. They are all working great and I am pulling 24.5 on all of them. I'll try to get some pictures of the system shot and developed (I still use film!) soon. The only thing I will chang is I would like a wider seal than the 3/4 inch I found at Home Depot. I am going to look and see if they have the same Frost King product in a 1.5 or 2 inch, will just make it easier to keep glued to the couplings.

Thanks to all for the help - I am really going to enjoy this system!

Wilford
 
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This is my version

Here's what I've done so far with mine.

http://www.woodturnersofswmo.org/Articles/Vacuum_Chucking.htm

I don't use the same rotary coupling (like the E-Z ones mentioned) that's in the photo's anymore. I didn't like the fact that it took up the morse taper when it's in use. I have since just made a new handwheel that I then fit the hose into. I'll have to take some pictures and diagrams of that one when I get time.

- Andrew
 
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Scary!

Andrew,

You and I must of been on the same wavelength. The pictures of your chuck with the PVC coupling could be of mine. The only difference is I used 5 minute epoxy for gluing in the PVC and used it to seal the wood, used it as a finish. I did recess my nut a little and used high strength epoxy on the nut to wood glue. Let me know how the polyurethane glue holds up - it would be cheaper than my epoxy cost.

Did you get your pump from a place in Florida off of ebay? Mine has the same filter and stainless mount. I had a couple of pressure controllers that I stripped off before hooking up. Amazing how similar - I will try to get pictures shot this weekend!

Wilford
 
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Wilford,

Great minds thinking alike, perhaps? I've been using the recessed and glued hex nut in wood faceplates for about a year now and haven't had one fail yet. I'm not turning huge things on them but I don't baby them either. They've held up well with the poly glue. I did start out by using pine for the wood and that didn't hold up well. The glue joint never failed but the pine just tore apart. I use hard maple scraps now.

Yep, you certainly do need to seal all of the wood used in the vacuum system (if you're making your own of course), don't you? hehe I found a little leak the other day in one of my faceplates. I wasn't drawing my normal vacuum and wondered why. Started listening around and found a tiny area that didn't have any finish on it. Dabbed some polyurethane finish on there and it stopped.

No, I got my vac pump from John Jordan about 2 months ago. Didn't really need it at the time but thought it would be interesting and useful later. Won't take any amount of money for it now. Love the system.

Let us know when you've got pics of yours.

- Andrew
 
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I tried the E-Z system and all started leaking soon after I got them. They were replaced free but of cource I didn't know there was a problem untill I needed the system. Problem solved by getting the Oneway rotary adapter. My solution for the faceplates is to use UHMW. This is a "plastic" that you can get from most plastic supply places. I got a 6" by 6" piece for $30 and made 3 faceplates. This stiff is a dream to turn or thread with 200' plus shavings comming off. You have to be carefull that you don't get involved in making spider web thin shavings 100's of feet long and turn it all away. Too much fun to turn at 3000 RPM and have those continous shavings arc 5' in the air.
UHMW is soft enough that it will give a perfect air seal on the spindle sholder. I drilled a 1/4" hole 2" deep on the edge so I can use a metal rod to loosen it. Also got a 15" piece 1 1/4" thick and made a large face plate for doing the bottoms.
 
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