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Filing a ethic complaint

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I would like to know how a AAW member can file a ethics complaint against the BOD as a whole or a individual member of the BOD. I and many others I have talked to want to know if there are any procedures that must be followed and in what order to file a complaint. We would want to to this in a timely fashion while the facts are still sharp in members minds and not later when the facts become muddied. I'm sure that the Ethics committee must be contacted to get started, has anyone be able to? I have emailed Joe Dickey 4 times about this but only received one response. That response was on how the EC is involved in the dispute. He didn't tell me how they are involved, just involved. He did not relate to me how a ethics complaint is initiated. If anyone can enlighten the AAW membership on how to do this it would be appreciated.

Thank you.
 
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It's probably just as simple as that. Write a letter and detail your concerns.

Yes it should be simple, but the probably has me concerned. You didn't do this, you didn't do that, you forgot to cross your T etc. Would writing a letter detailing concerns actually start a official investigation?
 
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First

Yes it should be simple, but the probably has me concerned. You didn't do this, you didn't do that, you forgot to cross your T etc. Would writing a letter detailing concerns actually start a official investigation?

Your letter would need to detail the alleged violation of the ethics code. A complaint that amounts to "I don't like the way he/she did such and such," won't get you very far. You also need to be specific as to the exact conduct complained of, and the actions of the specific individual which allegedly violated a section of the AAW ethics code. Just making allegations based upon rumor and assumption is worthless. You must state facts and at least prima facie evidence.

As there have been allegations that the Board or unnamed Directors violated the By-Laws or the Board Handbook, make sure that your ETHICS complaint isn't based on those items. Conduct that amounts to a Handbook or By-Laws violation does not necessarily amount to an ethics violation, so don't conflate them if you want the Ethics Committee to proceed; that committee would have no power to enforce the Handbook or By-Laws rules unless the same conduct violated the AAW Ethics Code.
 
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Your letter would need to detail the alleged violation of the ethics code. A complaint that amounts to "I don't like the way he/she did such and such," won't get you very far. You also need to be specific as to the exact conduct complained of, and the actions of the specific individual which allegedly violated a section of the AAW ethics code. Just making allegations based upon rumor and assumption is worthless. You must state facts and at least prima facie evidence.

As there have been allegations that the Board or unnamed Directors violated the By-Laws or the Board Handbook, make sure that your ETHICS complaint isn't based on those items. Conduct that amounts to a Handbook or By-Laws violation does not necessarily amount to an ethics violation, so don't conflate them if you want the Ethics Committee to proceed; that committee would have no power to enforce the Handbook or By-Laws rules unless the same conduct violated the AAW Ethics Code.

Facts are pretty hard to come by. I would hope that the Ethics committee would try and dig out the facts. Individual members have no way of getting the true facts, all we get is small bits which we try and piece together.

If a member had a complaint about AAW bylaws or BOD handbook violations who would look into these allegations? Who would have the power to enforce the By-laws or handbook rules?
 
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If a member had a complaint about AAW bylaws or BOD handbook violations who would look into these allegations? Who would have the power to enforce the By-laws or handbook rules?

In addition where is the Ethics Code? A search of the AAW site doesn't bring it up.
 
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Your opening statement says while the facts are still sharp in peoples minds. Then you state later facts are hard to come by. The facts have been stated. However, those facts seem to have different points of view. So which facts fits your point of view? And is that point of view just facts that do not please you? Or the facts that have turns and twists added that would make Jesus into Satan? Great wordsmiths have had a great heyday in this matter. I am not a lawyer but Mark states what you should do. The problem with anger is distilling actual actions from your anger to make a clear and concise statement of facts. Using no angry words. Leaving emotional content out. Facts maam, just the facts as sargent Friday would say. Can you dig through all the info from the board and Mary and yea Malcolm and come up with ONE story of what took place? Can you then come up with the reasons those items took place? Can you place dates and events and the people involved? You may need to get written statements from the parties involved. Or you could just write a letter to the board stateing you are angry this entire thing has taken place and wish to take an active role in making sure this type of event does not happen again. And then asking. How may I be a part of a more positive interactive AAW with its board? What do you think?
 
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Wow!
There is lots of constructive advise on how to file an ethics complaint by a member against the BoD and it's quite involved with loads of "get your facts straight" advise.

To bad the BoD didn't do the same regarding the Mary Lacer's firing where all discussion was cut off by Dale Larson after 20 minutes.

Vote NOW with no more discussion even when this wasn't on the agenda.

Something this big should have been on the agenda, ya think?

This alone is an Ethics violation that has been swept under the table.

Mr Nelson, count me in on your complaints to the EC.

Curtis Thompson
#15049
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Your opening statement says while the facts are still sharp in peoples minds. Then you state later facts are hard to come by. The facts have been stated. However, those facts seem to have different points of view. So which facts fits your point of view? And is that point of view just facts that do not please you? Or the facts that have turns and twists added that would make Jesus into Satan? Great wordsmiths have had a great heyday in this matter. I am not a lawyer but Mark states what you should do. The problem with anger is distilling actual actions from your anger to make a clear and concise statement of facts. Using no angry words. Leaving emotional content out. Facts maam, just the facts as sargent Friday would say. Can you dig through all the info from the board and Mary and yea Malcolm and come up with ONE story of what took place? Can you then come up with the reasons those items took place? Can you place dates and events and the people involved? You may need to get written statements from the parties involved. Or you could just write a letter to the board stateing you are angry this entire thing has taken place and wish to take an active role in making sure this type of event does not happen again. And then asking. How may I be a part of a more positive interactive AAW with its board? What do you think?

Mr. Dunn You seem to think that I am going into a court of law. I am not going to conduct discovery and interview the witnesses and get statements as you suggest. There are many facts which I do think are true but I have no way of knowing all of the facts and which ones are absolutely true. Others will have these facts and they are sharp in their minds not mine. Everyone takes facts and see them in their own way, is this wrong? You seem to say that my point of view is not using the facts as presented but I could also say the same for others and how they see the facts.

Where do you get the notion that I am angry, can I not ask for a investigation because I am a concerned AAW member? I have gone through all the information and misinformation and come to a conclusion of what I think is the ONE story, does it have to match yours to be correct? I have my thoughts as to the reasons for the BODs actions, can I not ask if these actions were ethical?

I did write letters to the BOD stating my views and how they should rectify the situation. I thought this was taking a active role. I think that a investigation of the actions of the BOD will be a positive action for the future of the AAW, perhaps you do not.

Lastly, I just asked how to go about filing a ethics violation complaint. I just want the facts Maam.
 
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I have no idea of how this ethics committee works or how to file a complaint. This is it how it worked in another organization I was a member of. The committee members are volunteers from a cross section of the membership, mostly volunteers, only appointed if there is not enough volunteers. I can only remember one being appointed in the last 10 yeas I was a member. If anyone has an ethics complaint, they can contact one of the members of the committee. The only person that will know who filed the complaint will be the first contact. that provides the secrecy for the "whistle blower" until the complaint is investigated.

Next the contact person contacts the members of the committee and explains the complaint. Still only one person knows who filed the complaint. The charges/complaint is investigated by the committee through interviews, checking the books or what ever they need to get to the bottom of the complaint. When they have satisfied themselves that the complaint was valid or not valid they file a report and it is presented to the membership. Failure to provide truthful information to the committee can result in a temporary ban from the organization. I have seen the membership actually issue a lifetime ban, but he went to the prison so it did not matter to him.

The identity of the person that filed the complaint is not know until the committee has finished their report. This helps to keep people from filing bogus reports based on rumors. Even then some will slip through.
 
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Sir, you sounded angry thats all. And I know you are not going to court. But to lay out all events and to come up with what you think are violations could be a good thing. And its all in the wording. And I have tried to distill what has been said. And I have tried to not cast stones since I know most of those involved. I have read a few letters forwarded to me that were to be sent to the board. They have been so full of hate over perceived actions that my council was to clean it up. If you want an answer I suggested. Do not start by calling names. All that and I also would like the matter taken care of. If any wrongdoing was done. And it now seems that is being looked into then so be it. May at some point we all get closure.
 
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Sir, you sounded angry thats all. And I know you are not going to court. But to lay out all events and to come up with what you think are violations could be a good thing. And its all in the wording. And I have tried to distill what has been said. And I have tried to not cast stones since I know most of those involved. I have read a few letters forwarded to me that were to be sent to the board. They have been so full of hate over perceived actions that my council was to clean it up. If you want an answer I suggested. Do not start by calling names. All that and I also would like the matter taken care of. If any wrongdoing was done. And it now seems that is being looked into then so be it. May at some point we all get closure.

Mr Dunn, being a supporter of the Current BOD you must take any action taken against the BOD to be a angry action. This could not be further from the truth, I was just asking a question. I did not perceive my tone as angry just inquisitive as to how go about filing a complaint. Because you have read emails that were full of hate please do not transfer this hate to what I have wrote, I did not write any of those emails.

I can not find in this thread that I have called anybody a name, you must have confused this with another thread.

The EC may be involved, but to what extent. The members I have been in touch with would like the EC to look at specific items of action taken by the BOD which may have violated ethics, bylaws or the handbook. In filing a formal complaint we would hope the EC can do a thorough investigation on these actions.

I'm sure we all want closure but I would hope that any wrong doing on anybody's part will be corrected. This should not be swept under the rug just so the healing can begin. Without responsibility being taken by the members of the BOD, or others, there will always be festering wounds which will not heal.
 
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I was mearly discussing some letters I have taken a look at. No You called no one a name. Sorry it came across like that. I meant none of that directed at you. My point which I guess I did not do a good job of using words myself was that the wording of any document sent to the board should be devoid of name calling and hate filled words. Not saying you used any hate or name calling. But that I have read letters containing some pretty harsh stuff. And I do support the board in this. But if it is found that wrongdoing was done and is punishable in some manner I will have no problem excepting the decision. As also if no wrongdoing is determined. So please know I am not trying to beat you with a stick. Plenty of that has taken place between folks who would never have thought something could come between them. And the more I am reading the more important it seems for many for it to be determined if wrongdoing was done or not. So it seems that investigation needs to happen to help settle matters.
 
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I was mearly discussing some letters I have taken a look at. No You called no one a name. Sorry it came across like that. I meant none of that directed at you. My point which I guess I did not do a good job of using words myself was that the wording of any document sent to the board should be devoid of name calling and hate filled words. Not saying you used any hate or name calling. But that I have read letters containing some pretty harsh stuff. And I do support the board in this. But if it is found that wrongdoing was done and is punishable in some manner I will have no problem excepting the decision. As also if no wrongdoing is determined. So please know I am not trying to beat you with a stick. Plenty of that has taken place between folks who would never have thought something could come between them. And the more I am reading the more important it seems for many for it to be determined if wrongdoing was done or not. So it seems that investigation needs to happen to help settle matters./QUOTE]

Thank you Mr. Dunn, these words are very encouraging to see from a BOD supporter. The members who may ask for a investigation are not trying to tear apart the AAW, but want to build a better AAW with transparency and honesty.

I also want to thank you for not beating me with a stick, but if you use apiece of Koa can I keep it?:D
 
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I would like to know how a AAW member can file a ethics complaint against the BOD as a whole or a individual member of the BOD. I and many others I have talked to want to know if there are any procedures that must be followed and in what order to file a complaint. We would want to to this in a timely fashion while the facts are still sharp in members minds and not later when the facts become muddied. I'm sure that the Ethics committee must be contacted to get started, has anyone be able to? I have emailed Joe Dickey 4 times about this but only received one response. That response was on how the EC is involved in the dispute. He didn't tell me how they are involved, just involved. He did not relate to me how a ethics complaint is initiated. If anyone can enlighten the AAW membership on how to do this it would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Ref AAW Members Area 'The EC provides opinions on ethical issues but we are not an investigative or judicial group. Accordingly, the only foreseeable further actions on this issue by the Ethics Committee will be to participate in the reconstruction of the Bylaws to strengthen the foundations of the organization. '

So no point in filing a complaint !!!

How can the EC possibly provide a meaningful opinion if they don't investigate to find out the facts?

Unimpressed.

Brian Finney
 
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Ref AAW Members Area 'The EC provides opinions on ethical issues but we are not an investigative or judicial group. Accordingly, the only foreseeable further actions on this issue by the Ethics Committee will be to participate in the reconstruction of the Bylaws to strengthen the foundations of the organization. '

So no point in filing a complaint !!!

How can the EC possibly provide a meaningful opinion if they don't investigate to find out the facts?

Unimpressed.

Brian Finney

Unimpressed is an understatement. Too bad we can't file an ethics complaint against the Ethics Committee.
 
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Brian,

You and others seem to have been analogizing the EC to some government watchdog agency with investigative "powers" and some kind of sanctioning authority. That is not within its abilities. The committee can, however, render an opinion based upon a set of established facts that are presented to it.

I tried to tell people here about how it would have to work, but my comments were met a certain degree of, shall we say "scorn", if not sarcasm.

Filing a complaint to find out if there are sufficient facts to support the complaint is called a "fishing expedition" in common parlance.

You and other members of MAG have been vocal about your anger/outrage over the "events" at the June Board meeting. There may be members of your group with inside information on the situation going back more than a year prior. That information might (or might not) form the basis for your complaint. If you truly seek evidence of wrongdoing, start with what you already have.

Just remember the old saw, "A half-truth is the most pernicious of lies, for it cannot be disproven, only explained."
 
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Well, by now it should be perfectly clear that Mark is correct. To bring about change the only recourse is to initiate the change at the ballot box. I will maintain my membership until either the current BOD are eliminated or removed out of thier sense of propriety. Business as usual cannot continue.
 
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Mark,

There is no need for fishing expedition. There is adequate prima facie evidence from the June 21st 2010 meeting to put together a credible complaint for the Ethics Committee to test the substance of any complaint. But they are saying ' ...Accordingly, the only foreseeable further actions on this issue by the Ethics Committee will be to participate in the reconstruction of the Bylaws to strengthen the foundations of the organization. ' ie they will not consider a complaint.

They have provided opinion to persons unknown so there must be sufficient evidence to come to an opinion. It maybe that that opinion will assit the Board in its move to become a competent Board; or it maybe that all will be swept under the carpet. Perhaps if the Ethics Committee shared its opinion people would feel more comfortable with the process.

The Bylaw review could also assist the Board to become competent, in particular by removing the Bylaw whereby the membership's elected will can be usurped by a group of Directors voting off an elected Director. I wait to see if that very powerful tool of control will be revoked.

I am in no doubt of the Ethics Committee judicial standing - all power is with the Board - and I feel that the balance is right in that the Ethics Committee provide opinion only, but it must be opinion that is available to all.

Brian Finney
 
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Mark, I guess I have to agree with you. No ethics investigation because the EC doesn't investigate they only look at facts presented. Many that want the EC to act don't have the facts and no way to find them. But, in my opinion that doesn't make it right and before you get on about MAG and wanting to destroy AAW I don't care if they were to investigate and find the BOD a group of saints. The whole mess stinks. There is nothing coming from the BOD. The candidates for the election aren't posting and the bylaw committee is going to give us a take it all or leave it bylaw update with no discussion. In time this will all be forgotten and the AAW will continue. The question is what type of turning organization will survive.
 

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AAW members are entitled to disagree with the board's decision and to question their methodology.

Two board members resigned in protest.
Had there been a substantive by-laws violation I would expect two board members with 13 years combined board experience to have that vote invalidated.
Had there been an egregious ethics breach. The two most experienced board members could have worked that through the ethics committee in a matter of a few weeks at most.

There are lots of fuzzy areas. That fuzziness lets people take comfort in differing opinions.

I see no clear wrongdoing that could be taken to the ethics committee.
If you have a clear case to present you should do it.

-Al
 
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AAW members are entitled to disagree with the board's decision and to question their methodology.

Al,

What is being questioned is not the decision or methodolgy its the behaviour of one or more Directors during and before the 21st June meeting which appears to be below the standard of 'honest, open and ethical' (paraphrased) required and expected.

Brian
 
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Mark, I guess I have to agree with you. No ethics investigation because the EC doesn't investigate they only look at facts presented. Many that want the EC to act don't have the facts and no way to find them. But, in my opinion that doesn't make it right and before you get on about MAG and wanting to destroy AAW

Stuart,

Please don't mistake my post for "getting on" about the MAG. I know several people who joined the group who I believe to be sincere in their opinions, and I have, at no time, said anything about that group wanting or even tending to destroy the AAW.

There were posts here about how to file a complaint, and I stated that folks need facts first, that's all. I wasn't telling or even suggesting for anyone NOT to do so. I've had several "back channel" conversations with people who I deem to be acting in good faith, and I've told them exactly the same thing, not to protect anyone, but rather to inform how best to get results.

There's an old principal that in order to ask a good question, you need to know about 90% of the answer.

That's going to apply here as well. But I'll have to acknowledge that it won't do much for your sense of smell. ;)
 
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Al,

What is being questioned is not the decision or methodolgy its the behaviour of one or more Directors during and before the 21st June meeting which appears to be below the standard of 'honest, open and ethical' (paraphrased) required and expected.

Brian

Al . . . being an official advisor to the BOD wouldn't, by any chance, cause you to have a biased perspective of their actions . . . would it? ;)
 
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Gentlemen,
I no longer see anything constructive or substantive from this thread. As a result, I am closing it. If you have something of substance or something constructive to add, please begin a new thread.
 
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