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Gotta love working with madrone!

Russell Neyman

Russell Neyman

Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Messages
9
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Location
United States
Russel, you are right about the higher water content. There was an article in Fine Woodworking some years back about it. Madrone has just about the highest water content of any wood out there. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but I think it was like 78% while most other woods were in the 60% range. I prefer the once turned bowls and let them warp. I had a couple of logs last year, and of the bowls were over 1/4 inch thick, about half of them cracked. The logs I got this year, I have lost maybe 2 to cracks, and most were turned to 5/16 or so thick. Just because it is Madrone. You Huskeys call it ma-dron-ah. We Ducks call it madrone. The Canadians call it Arubtus. My favorite wood just because it warps so much, and the warping is not predictable like most other woods. Turns like wet pear or dog wood...

robo hippy
 
Bill Boehme said:
Does dry madrone warp after it has been turned? One of our club members brought some madrone to an open shop meeting to sell or swap. I decided to pass on the offer.
Click to expand...

Green madrone warps like crazy.
Boiled Madrone when dry is quite stable

I have turned just a little of each.
The green madrone I had was wonderful to turn.
Shavings a hundred feet long. It cuts like butter....
I like turning green holy a lot but madrone is really nice to turn.

Dried wood of any species does not warp.
There may be some movement if there is tension in the wood but this is not warping but a spring like movement.
When the tension restraint is removed.


Al
 
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Any dried wood will move relative to changes in humidity. I think this could be qualified as warping. This movement is generally far less than what happens between green wood and dried wood. This might be more evident in board stock where they can cup, bow, and twist. When humidity goes back to what it was, the board usually goes back to 'original' shape. In the 1/4 inch thick wall thickness range, most are pliable enough to move without cracking. No wood likes sudden changes in temperature and humidity, which can cause 'stable' pieces to crack, where if the 'adjustment' process is slowed down, they can move without damage. Of course 'individual results may vary'.

robo hippy
 
It's interesting. Madrone is wonderful because it moves and mesquite is wonderful because it doesn't.

I cut down a plum tree that was dying because of borers and saved some of the trunk to turn. I knew that fruit wood likes to crack more than most other wood, but it seems like it won't ever quit. It never moved much when it was wet. I roughed a small vase (end grain with no pith) and it has been drying for a couple years, but every few months there is a new crack.
 
Bill Boehme said:
I knew that fruit wood likes to crack more than most other wood, but it seems like it won't ever quit. It never moved much when it was wet. I roughed a small vase (end grain with no pith) and it has been drying for a couple years, but every few months there is a new crack.
Click to expand...

I make it a habit to boil all fruit wood rough-outs and rarely have a problem. Plum and apple are my favorites - love the smell when I turn them.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Thanks. If my wife asks what I am cooking, I will say plum pudding.
Click to expand...

Or apple sauce...

depends on how long you boil that blank.

Speaking of green madrone, can anyone point me to a source? I've been googling like a chipmunk on diet pills and can't seem to find any. I have the audacity to want to try one of Dennis Gooding's rippled vases. God only knows how it'll turn out so I better get at least a couple of pieces!
 
I haven't seen one of Dennis's rippled vases. The best way to get the ripple is from figured wood, or by taking a cut any where near a branch, or the buttress wood at the bottom of the tree. Most of the logs I get, they don't take the buttress part. Burl does an excellent job of moving as well. I am about out now, and don't take it in the summer. 'That stuff starts to split when you fire up the chainsaw!'

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I haven't seen one of Dennis's rippled vases. The best way to get the ripple is from figured wood, or by taking a cut any where near a branch, or the buttress wood at the bottom of the tree. Most of the logs I get, they don't take the buttress part. Burl does an excellent job of moving as well. I am about out now, and don't take it in the summer. 'That stuff starts to split when you fire up the chainsaw!'

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Hi Robo: I can't get it at all down here in south Louisiana. Lots of cypress and live oak and hackberry, etc. I'm going to have to buy the madrone and I can find burl pieces and such but that's about it. NW Figured Woods has some nice pieces but pricey and it's all pretty much dried.
 
Mark Hepburn said:
Hi Robo: I can't get it at all down here in south Louisiana.
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That's not surprising since it generally only grows within 50 miles of saltwater from central California in the south to British Columbia in the north. It's tough to ship greenwood since it has a propensity to turn itself into a pretzl and crack as it loses water. As has been mentioned, it has one of the highest water contents of any tree.

The term cracking doesn't really do justice to what madrone does. It doesn't just crack - it actually tears itself apart in places as it dries. It actually creates voids rather than cracks as masses of wood move in opposite directions. That's one of the primary reasons that there is almost no commercial value to it for furniture lumber. It's so unpredictable. Green-turned bowls can warp so profoundly the original shape becomes a mystery.

But as has also been mentioned, there are few woods that are as much fun to turn. Green, it cuts like butter and machines so cleanly you'd be reluctant to sand it after cutting with good sharp tools. Shavings literally fly everywhere and seem to be miles long with the cutting happening totally effortlessly. If you don't sand it, it dries to a leather-like surface that is smooth, but rippled and feels very exotic to handle. The red to yellow coloring is beautiful and burls are often truly spectacular.

If you're twice-turning bowls, boiling the blanks will relieve most of the internal stresses most of the time (please note the lack of a definitive here), and you can allow to dry and re-turn round bowls later. The grain is tight and very closed so a great finish is possible with moderate sanding on dried pieces.

It is highly prized here - particularly burls. I just bought a home on an island here in the Pacific Northwest that has three Madrone trees on the property. It was, for me a main selling point. They shed their bark and most people think they're way too messy for a yard. Our 'yard' is rocks and trees and whatever wants to grow between them that the deer won't eat. Those three trees are going to be well cared for and pampered.
 
I remember seeing one of the wood suppliers around here, can't remember which one, that had green Madrone for sale. Pieces were in sealed plastic bags. That will keep them. I am wary of any 'dry' Madrone. If it is over 2 inches thick, it will be shattered inside. Some turner out east bought a big 'dry' Madrone burl, and cut into it only to find it totally shattered. It might work if you could soak it in an epoxy filler, but not even pen blanks.... I do need to find the guy in the Grants Pass area that has the Madrone burl.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I remember seeing one of the wood suppliers around here, can't remember which one, that had green Madrone for sale. Pieces were in sealed plastic bags. That will keep them. I am wary of any 'dry' Madrone. If it is over 2 inches thick, it will be shattered inside. Some turner out east bought a big 'dry' Madrone burl, and cut into it only to find it totally shattered. It might work if you could soak it in an epoxy filler, but not even pen blanks.... I do need to find the guy in the Grants Pass area that has the Madrone burl.

robo hippy
Click to expand...

I bought a dry madrone burl about 10 x 6 from RJ (Bob) Cutler (rjcutler.com - no affiliation). That was a beautiful piece of wood. But talk about a challenge to turn. I've turned, by my count (and I do keep count), only 57 pieces in total since starting 2 years ago and it was both one of the most challenging and most fun things I've undertaken. I know everyone says their tools are sharp, but I found that I had to keep sharpening to get 'er done.
 
Shawn,

Thanks for that. I'll check them for the green madrone.

Mark
 
Source of madrone burl

Mark Hepburn said:
Or apple sauce...

depends on how long you boil that blank.

Speaking of green madrone, can anyone point me to a source? I've been googling like a chipmunk on diet pills and can't seem to find any. I have the audacity to want to try one of Dennis Gooding's rippled vases. God only knows how it'll turn out so I better get at least a couple of pieces!
Click to expand...

Mark, try oregonburls.com here in Grants Pass. Greg Dahl, the owner, is a fellow member of the Southern Oregon Woodturners chapter of AAW. As for plain green madrone, it is easy to get if you live here (it is sold as firewood) but I don't know if anyone waxes and ships it. You might ask Greg.

Dennis
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Mark, try oregonburls.com here in Grants Pass. Greg Dahl, the owner, is a fellow member of the Southern Oregon Woodturners chapter of AAW. As for plain green madrone, it is easy to get if you live here (it is sold as firewood) but I don't know if anyone waxes and ships it. You might ask Greg.

Dennis
Click to expand...

Thanks Dennis. I'm going to call and ask. Just went to the website and they have a nice variety of products.

mark
 
I have shipped it, and wrap it in wide stretch wrap. That gets it there. Easier than waxing, and not as messy. If you let some wood sit inside the plastic for too long, it will mold. I would ship, but won't be getting more till next winter, probably February. I like it when the spring water is up. Wear a rain suit and have a squeegee for your mask.... Also, it is very sticky, almost like sugar water, and gunks up every thing, gouges, scrapers, tool rest, banjo, tool posts, and grinding wheels.... You need glass cleaner for your glasses or mask. I do resort to a wire wheel for my tools if it sits over night. Doesn't seem to bother the CBN wheels.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I have shipped it, and wrap it in wide stretch wrap. That gets it there. Easier than waxing, and not as messy. If you let some wood sit inside the plastic for too long, it will mold. I would ship, but won't be getting more till next winter, probably February. I like it when the spring water is up. Wear a rain suit and have a squeegee for your mask.... Also, it is very sticky, almost like sugar water, and gunks up every thing, gouges, scrapers, tool rest, banjo, tool posts, and grinding wheels.... You need glass cleaner for your glasses or mask. I do resort to a wire wheel for my tools if it sits over night. Doesn't seem to bother the CBN wheels.

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Reed, you failed to mention the brown stripe running up one wall, across the ceiling, and down the other wall.
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Reed, you failed to mention the brown stripe running up one wall, across the ceiling, and down the other wall.
Click to expand...

Ha!.....got a chuckle out of that comment! :D

Madrone isn't the only wood that will put that brown stripe on your wall......just about anything with MC over about 35% will add to it.

Of the few pieces of Madrone I've turned, they were fairly dry to begin with. One thing I've noticed, is Madrone cuts exceptionally well when dry. It is a pleasure to turn this wood. Really do love that pinkish color........

ko
 

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There is a nice picture of it in my video about standing out of the line of fire (You Tube, robo hippy... Things do get wet. One thing I have been pondering, The logs I got last year were cut in February, and had the spring water running/pouring out of it. I could leave them over 1/4 inch thick, with almost no cracking. The logs the previous year were cut in October or November, and any thing over 1/4 inch thick, and I got about half of them with cracks. So, I am thinking I will get wet season logs from now on.

robo hippy
 
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