I need some info on sharpening. Flat and hollow bevel. Does either one have a advantage? What confuses me is that I read several articles on sharping the skew, I have the Alan lacer,straight,and angled . I read several posts that a skew should never have a hollow grind. It causes some instability and a slight bevel loss? I’m planning on buying the sorby belt sharping system. Is better the the cbn wheel? Thanks Al.
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Gouge sharpening
- Thread starter Albert Cwirko
- Start date
I've sharpened my skews with a hollow ground for decades. I find it a lot easier to hone the skew with a hollow bevel, just like I do with my plane irons and chisels. I've never had any issues with instability on the lathe, but I've never tried a flat bevel, either. I never saw the need, since I get good results with the way I've done things for a long time. I sharpen on a Baldor 7" slow speed grinder with Norton 3X grinding wheels.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I also sharpen my skews with hollow grind. Now I do it on CBN wheels but used to use older white silicone carbide and have tried belt sanders, disc sanders and the Tormek system. I do tend to hone my skews which does give them a slight flat grind of maybe 1mm because I place the hone on the toe and heel to keep the angle consistent. I spent 2 years playing with skews of every size and all kinds of grinds and shapes. What I found was it's not the grind but how much you practice with whatever grind you put on it that makes the difference. Yes there are some shapes that work better for production work and certain cuts which is why I think there are so many different grinds out there. Here is my video on that subject.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFlZyGKYro4&t=190s
Albert,
On your initial question, a hollow ground bevel on a gouge works just fine. As your skill increases, you may get to a point where you want to experiment with a flat grind or a micro-bevel or a convex grind. Until then, go with what is easy and fast and works.
BTW one of the things getting involved in woodturning really hammers home is that there are a great many ways to do just about everything. Also, that there are lots of folks who will say their way is the only good one. B.S. The different methods work best for different people, different wood, different tasks, and so on. I encourage learners to start with one proven, widely used, safe method, learn it well, and once they are comfortable, they can explore other ways of doing things.
On your initial question, a hollow ground bevel on a gouge works just fine. As your skill increases, you may get to a point where you want to experiment with a flat grind or a micro-bevel or a convex grind. Until then, go with what is easy and fast and works.
BTW one of the things getting involved in woodturning really hammers home is that there are a great many ways to do just about everything. Also, that there are lots of folks who will say their way is the only good one. B.S. The different methods work best for different people, different wood, different tasks, and so on. I encourage learners to start with one proven, widely used, safe method, learn it well, and once they are comfortable, they can explore other ways of doing things.
The hollow grind on the skew honed the way John L stated and Allen Lacer teaches works best because you can lay the skew against the work piece with the 2 honed points rubbing then a slight tilt will start the cut. The flat grind produces a micro bevel when honed and that makes it more difficult to start and hold a cut.
I sharpen with a Kalamazoo 2 X 48" belt grinder set up similar to the Sorby. I want a hollow grind on the skew so its easy to hone. I sharpen it freehand on the top wheel of the belt grinder, don't know if you can do this on the Sorby. I would be just as happy with a cbn wheel on my Baldor grinder.
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like above the hollow ground is easier to hone - low risk of rounding over the edge While honing.
in beginners classes my students learn to sharpen on a wheel with jigs and platform.
all hollow ground.
a convex bevel is easier for most people to control has less bevel drag. Also hard for the novice to sharpen
like @Dean Center said - at some point you may wish to experiment.
as a beginner keep it simple don’t over think it.
I do most of my turning with
Ellsworth ground gouge - hollow ground using the Ellsworth jig
spindle gouge - hand ground flat or slightly convex bevel
Michelson ground gouge - hand ground - convex bevel.
in beginners classes my students learn to sharpen on a wheel with jigs and platform.
all hollow ground.
a convex bevel is easier for most people to control has less bevel drag. Also hard for the novice to sharpen
like @Dean Center said - at some point you may wish to experiment.
as a beginner keep it simple don’t over think it.
I do most of my turning with
Ellsworth ground gouge - hollow ground using the Ellsworth jig
spindle gouge - hand ground flat or slightly convex bevel
Michelson ground gouge - hand ground - convex bevel.
Most of what I do is bowl turning. I can use a skew, but no where near master level. I converted to platform sharpening maybe 10 years ago, can't remember. It is far more efficient, but like all other things, there is a bit of a learning curve.
For grinding wheels, eventually you will have CBN wheels. They cut better, then never change size, there is no risk of them ever blowing up, and for a production turner, they can last 5 or so years. They do cost a bit more. Get the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. I have never run a tool off the edge of one of them, but have on some of the 1 inch wheels.
I have a bunch of mostly bowl turning videos up on You Tube, including sharpening. Join a local club. You can often find used equipment for less than you can buy new. Also mentors!
robo hippy
For grinding wheels, eventually you will have CBN wheels. They cut better, then never change size, there is no risk of them ever blowing up, and for a production turner, they can last 5 or so years. They do cost a bit more. Get the 1 1/2 inch wide wheels. I have never run a tool off the edge of one of them, but have on some of the 1 inch wheels.
I have a bunch of mostly bowl turning videos up on You Tube, including sharpening. Join a local club. You can often find used equipment for less than you can buy new. Also mentors!
robo hippy
While not a skew expert by any means, I’ve tried both flat and HG. HG handles better and is much easier to hone IMO - just follow Mr Lacer’s directions and you will be fine.
All other tools are HG. I still use Al Ox wheels on the bench grinder, which is used to shape tools. I use a tormek clone and tormek jigs to sharpen, and use a relief bevel so the wet sharpener doesnt have to remove much. Seems to be a consensus that the biggest benefit of cbn wheels is less steel removed per sharpening, so tools last longer. The wet sharpener does the same thing, and I had it before I started turning, so no real benefit to me. If you have decided turning is your thing and will be doing it forever cbn makes sense. One drawback to cbn is you shouldnt grind softer steel, so if you do other work in your shop like I do, another grinder is required.
I don’t see a benefit to the pro edge system. A drawback is not many use them, so obtaining help with grind settings or other sharpening issues is more difficult - not that it is bad, it’s just different.
All other tools are HG. I still use Al Ox wheels on the bench grinder, which is used to shape tools. I use a tormek clone and tormek jigs to sharpen, and use a relief bevel so the wet sharpener doesnt have to remove much. Seems to be a consensus that the biggest benefit of cbn wheels is less steel removed per sharpening, so tools last longer. The wet sharpener does the same thing, and I had it before I started turning, so no real benefit to me. If you have decided turning is your thing and will be doing it forever cbn makes sense. One drawback to cbn is you shouldnt grind softer steel, so if you do other work in your shop like I do, another grinder is required.
I don’t see a benefit to the pro edge system. A drawback is not many use them, so obtaining help with grind settings or other sharpening issues is more difficult - not that it is bad, it’s just different.
I guess I’m different. I have the Sorby Proedge and CBN wheels. I use the Sorby for all my skews, SRGs, scrapers, parting tools. beading tools, and anything that is not a bowl or spindle gouge. I use the Hannes Vector jig and CBN for my gouges. I can’t say I see much difference between HG and flat grind on my skews, but prefer flat grind. For me it is easier to us a flat ground skew. I’m not one to hone as it is just as easy for me to put a fresh edge using the Sorby. More than half the time I use my skews as scrapers. I never did like the one way skew attachment and usually used the Robo Rest. If I was only going to have one system it would be a CBN wheel, Vector jig, and Robo Rest. Since the Robo Rest is no longer available I would get the Stuart Batty angle blocks for platform sharpening. You could get by with only the Proedge to do all sharpening if you wanted.
Doug, don’t know how many use the Proedge, but they have been out of stock multiple times. There is really no learning curve or grind settings to confuse you, pretty much straight forward unlike the Oneway Vari-grind. The Proedge is simple to use.
@William Rogers , the sanding belts are consumables with that system. Can you comment on longevity and the availability and cost of replacement?
@Mark Jundanian The belts are ceramic just a guess, last 6-8 weeks. I haven’t kept track. I buy mine from Supergrit for $3-$5 each. I don’t buy the Sorby stock. I use the 60, 120, and 220 grit. Mostly the 220 grit. I do use the 600 grit for my Dway beading tools.
Mark - I was told that Klingspor makes the belts for the Pro Edge. But if you buy the belts from Klingspor, without the Sorby label, they are quite cheap. AND...When a belt seems to be dull - turn it around to run the other direction. They work in either direction, regardless of the arrow on the backing. This will extend the life of the belt another 30% approx.
Hmm, any one tried Ken Rizza's Slick Stick on the belts? I know they are supposed to be great for CBN wheels and even bandsaw blades....
robo hippy
robo hippy
I haven’t tried it on belts. I’ve tried it on wheels and neutral on improvement. Mainly just use it on bandsaw blades but will try it on my belts
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I’m too green to know if it helped on the CBN wheels, but a little bit on the dull bandsaw blade I should change made a noticeable improvement.
Earl
I use it. After I cleaned up a CBN wheel that was loaded with crud. It seems to provide a layer of wax which may help prevent wheels from loading up. Time will tell - but thus far, it does seem to be helping.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I was grinding carbon steel tools today and it seemed like my CBN wheel was making noise. May have been just me but I pulled out the slick stick and hit it lightly. Man what a difference. Cut as smooth as glass.
I was not too fond of the way the slick stick built up a layer on my cbn. I tried and tried to clean it up. I ended up ordering new wheels.
Emilliano, Not sure you tried this. Ken has this method to clean the CBN wheels on his site. Spray WD 40 and brush with a steel brush. I use the cheap HF steel tooth brush. It worked for me. I wasn’t crazy about the build up either.
Dave Schweitzer of D Way said to soak the CBN wheel in water and soap, I think he used Simple Green, let it sit for a couple of hours, then rinse off and maybe hit it with a wire brush. Tried it once with a worn out 180 grit and it cleaned it up some. I know some have used oven cleaner, which does get down into the grit to lift out crud, which I get a lot of because of my preference for green wood. I do like to use a bit of the lapping fluid on the bevels of my tools from time to time, and it does help prevent any build up.
robo hippy
robo hippy
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I just barely touch the wheels with the slick stick and dont do it again for a good while. I just did it for the second time on one wheel yesterday to see if it improved the sharpening of the carbon steel.tools.