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hand honing, what are you using?

S

Steve Tiedman

Joined
Oct 25, 2020
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Minneapolis, MN
Just because I have a hankering to try something new in the shop, I'm wondering about different ideas for hand honing tool edges between trips to the grinding wheel.

I've got a couple medium India slip stones I've used in the past but I wasn't very fond of them. And I've used several DMT "credit card" diamond hones but they seem to not last very long.

If you touch up turning tool edges by hand, what are you using?

For bench chisels and plane blades, I'm going to ween myself off diamond hones (300, 600, and 1200 grit, all 8"x3" plates) and move to Shapton Kuromaku water stones in 1000, 5000, and 8000 grit. I think this stone in 1000 grit would be great for touching up turning tools, but it only comes 8x3x5/8", a bit too large/cumbersome for holding by hand on a turning tool at the lathe. Anyway... what sorts of stones (regardless of what they are made of) are you using?

An article (free to read thru the end of the month) about the Shapton Kuromaku as bench stones for chisels and plane irons. https://neversponsored.substack.com/p/shapton-kuromaku-stones-the-only
 
Somewhere, I have some of those Japanese water stones....but, haven't used them in many moons. They work fantastic, but are very brittle .....I've broken a few of them! I've also used traditional slip stones, too.....and, they are not used much anymore either. I did some very early honing on an Arkansas stone.....and, I still use it for pocketknives. The Arkansas stone would still be great for gouge bevels and skews, but they're heavy and not as easy to use as the lighter diamond hones are.

All my honing of gouge bevels and skews are now done on 400/600 diamond hones about 2x8, or so. The flutes are done with 600gt cone diamond hones. The real trick for using these hones, is to avoid heavy-handedness, along with a cross-hatch method of creating the final edge. Edges created with multiple directional strokes creates a finer final cutting edge than done from a single direction. I prefer the 600gt side, but the 400gt is still very useful for a variety of applications.

-o-
 
I think any waterstone will get hollowed out quickly if used for honing gouges. I reserve them for straight edged tools and use a 600# DMT diamond flat file and a 1/4" diameter diamond round file for curved edge turning tools. I have had good luck with DMT hones, I am still using a couple from 30 years ago. You could try an Arkansas slipstone but it will be slow going on high speed steel.
 
I've been recently trying to use a CBN credit card hone between trips to the grinder. I haven't really gotten the hang of it yet to be honest and am wondering if it may be too small to be easily used. Although there's always that phase in learning a new tool/technique where I think there must me something wrong with it but it ends up I just needed more practice...... I'm curious what others will say here
 
I've got a roll of 400 grit 3M silicon carbide wet-dry paper in the shop, a remnant from Dad's workbench... I wonder how a piece of it spray glued to a flat piece of wood would work out? Stroking from heel to edge as not to tear into the paper, and as Odie suggests, strokes from at least 2 directions.

@john lucas can you provide details about the combo grit CBN hone you're using? Is it from Trend, or someone else? Thanks.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
For bench chisels and plane blades, I'm going to ween myself off diamond hones (300, 600, and 1200 grit, all 8"x3" plates) and move to Shapton Kuromaku water stones in 1000, 5000, and 8000 grit. I think this stone in 1000 grit would be great for touching up turning tools,
Click to expand...

I have a great number of natural and man made Japanese waterstones for my high-end Japanese kitchen knives and Japanese woodworking blades, but I would never consider using any them on my woodturning tools, many of which contain vanadium carbides that the waterstones would struggle with. For those I use diamond plates through to #2,000, primarily to refresh the edge on scrapers and skews before revisits the CBN grinder.

I will use CBN plates for honing if and when they become as economical as diamond plates.

I don't hone the bevels on my gouges as I have never found there was a time advantage in doing so, but I do regularly power hone the flutes in all of my gouges. The cutting edge on your gouge will only be as sharp as the coarsest of the two surfaces that come together to form the cutting edge and some gouges come with flutes that are way coarser than the grinding wheels that most of us use. I use green chromium oxide on a rag wheel mounted on a bench grinder for that purpose. Chromium oxide has a grit size of approx #60,000 and leaves a mirror polish, so unnecessarily fine for this purpose, but I use it because I happen to have it. Coarser wax honing pastes like black and dark gray will do the job faster and just as well. Done periodically this is also removes any build up of crud from the flute.
 
Kurt Manley said:
I've been recently trying to use a CBN credit card hone between trips to the grinder. I haven't really gotten the hang of it yet to be honest and am wondering if it may be too small to be easily used. Although there's always that phase in learning a new tool/technique where I think there must me something wrong with it but it ends up I just needed more practice...... I'm curious what others will say here
Click to expand...
It may be dependent on each individual for what works, but what works for me, is, I can tuck the tool handle in between my left arm and ribs such that I can eyeball a sightline along the bevel, then using credit card hone (or my 1 x 5 600/1000 CBN hone) I can match it up with the bevel and then just rub hone back & forth while rolling tool as needed to get the edges touched up. The key to it of course is ability to see the bevel and hone contact match up, and let eye-hand coordination handle the rest.

- It takes very little work with the CBN to shine up a nice little micro-bevel (Considering the hollow grind profile of a grinder-sharpened edge) with a bit of practice and touching up often (as often as every other cut in some woods on finish cuts) it takes even less time than the pause to adjust your tool rest.
 
To be honest I rarely hone anymore. With a 350 grit cbn and a light touch I remove almost no steel each time I sharpen. When you hone unless your really careful you tend to round the edge very slightly. After 5 or more honing when you go back to the gri Der you have to remove more steel to get back to that original edge. So I'm probably not saving steel by honing.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
I've got a roll of 400 grit 3M silicon carbide wet-dry paper in the shop, a remnant from Dad's workbench... I wonder how a piece of it spray glued to a flat piece of wood would work out? Stroking from heel to edge as not to tear into the paper, and as Odie suggests, strokes from at least 2 directions.
Click to expand...
It won’t last long enough to make it worthwhile. I use mylar psa backed abrasives (for splicing optical cables) on glass for honing flat work tools. The abrasives last much much longer than typical wet/dry paper.
 
I hone skews and scrapers, diamond paddle hones, dmt, usually 600 gr. The dmt hones I have (have some bigger ones also) seem to last. Wonder if you might be pressing too hard? I use water or other liquid, never dry, possibly that helps them last, not sure.

“Round” tools get touched up on the wet grinder vs trying to hand hone.
 
I don't hone at all either. Even with an 80 grit CBN wheel, a light touch is all that is needed. This does take some practice though, just like all things turning related. With a 600 or even 1000 grit wheel, pretty much the same thing. I do have some water stones for my flat work, and never use them. DMT makes diamond plates up to 8000 grit. I do make sure to strop my skews every time I use them. Only takes seconds.

robo hippy
 
john lucas said:
To be honest I rarely hone anymore. With a 350 grit cbn and a light touch I remove almost no steel each time I sharpen. When you hone unless your really careful you tend to round the edge very slightly. After 5 or more honing when you go back to the gri Der you have to remove more steel to get back to that original edge. So I'm probably not saving steel by honing.
Click to expand...
I used to hone with diamond cards. Acquired a 600grit CBN wheel last year and find that it does the job well.
 
Good discussion folks, thanks for sharing your experiences.
 
I also use Alan's diamond slipstone hone, religiously on my skews, just after sharpening on 350 grit CBN wheel. My verdict is still out on cbn rods for gouge flutes. Occasionally use diamond card file from Cindy Drozda.
 
I use round or actually cone shaped diamond hones on the inside of the flute. I find that often thus is quicker and easier than honing the outside.
 
Roger Wiegand said:
Really hard to beat Alan Lacer's diamond slipstone, the two different diameter rounded sides are perfect for most gouges and the grit gives a nice edge quickly.

https://stores.alanswoodturningstore.com/diamond-hones-by-alan/
Click to expand...

How's yours holding up? Mine has some bare spots after moderate use, mainly honing my skews. I don't think I did anything to abuse it. The spots are mostly near corners/edges so the hone still works okay for my purposes, but I'm a little concerned about the longevity. IMG_0607.jpg
 
A week or so ago I'd shown this website in another thread https://scienceofsharp.com/, and it was the author's electron microscope images of diamond plates that brought me to reconsidering what to use as both a hand-held hone, and for other "bench sharpening" of chisels and plane irons. Here is a two article series about the topic-
Part 1:
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/diamond-plate-break-in/
Part 2:
https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/2015/09/28/diamond-plate-break-in-part-2/
 
rkriet said:
I have each of these and like them a lot.
Click to expand...
Asher Langton said:
How's yours holding up? Mine has some bare spots after moderate use, mainly honing my skews. I don't think I did anything to abuse it. The spots are mostly near corners/edges so the hone still works okay for my purposes, but I'm a little concerned about the longevity.
Click to expand...
Asher Langton said:
How's yours holding up? Mine has some bare spots after moderate use, mainly honing my skews. I don't think I did anything to abuse it. The spots are mostly near corners/edges so the hone still works okay for my purposes, but I'm a little concerned about the longevity. View attachment 64277
Click to expand...
Don't overlook Woodturners Wonders tear-drop hone. It is very much like Alan Laser's hone only it's CBN. 1/4" and 1/8" rounded edges for large or small flutes $75.00 US
 
Asher Langton said:
How's yours holding up? Mine has some bare spots after moderate use, mainly honing my skews. I don't think I did anything to abuse it. The spots are mostly near corners/edges so the hone still works okay for my purposes, but I'm a little concerned about the longevity. View attachment 64277
Click to expand...
I hone pretty constantly and haven't noticed any degradation in nearly 10 years of use.
 
Roger Wiegand said:
I hone pretty constantly and haven't noticed any degradation in nearly 10 years of use.
Click to expand...

My early diamond plates were high quality ones that I'm still using and unlikely to ever wear out, but they were very expensive at the time. I use them for different dedicated purposes, but most of them don't need to be as good as they are for most of what I use them for. Those expensive diamond plates came with a warranty as to their flatness and other than for flattening my best waterstones I mostly don't need guaranteed flatness.

Darryl Fective said:
I went cheap. I tried some of the credit card sized hones, but found them sort of awkward to use. (and too easy to lose) I bought these and like them.

Click to expand...

I certainly don't need guaranteed flatness for the diamond plates I use in my woodturning workshop, so I've been using the economical cards like the ones that Darryl has been using. They are a good size to hold in the hand and go up to the finer grits to #2,000. Because they are so cheap I have multiple sets of those located around my workshop. I consider them to be consumables, but after about 8yrs of use I haven't found it necessary to dispose of any of them yet.

As they have next to no weight or thickness they can be held in convenient locations with button magnets to any metal surface, like lathe headstocks.

Those thin cards are also good for fitting into and putting an edge back on carbide routers bits.

For flutes I use a Victorinox diamond steel with an elliptical cross section.
 
Last edited:
Steve Tiedman said:
Just because I have a hankering to try something new in the shop, I'm wondering about different ideas for hand honing tool edges between trips to the grinding wheel.

I've got a couple medium India slip stones I've used in the past but I wasn't very fond of them. And I've used several DMT "credit card" diamond hones but they seem to not last very long.

If you touch up turning tool edges by hand, what are you using?

For bench chisels and plane blades, I'm going to ween myself off diamond hones (300, 600, and 1200 grit, all 8"x3" plates) and move to Shapton Kuromaku water stones in 1000, 5000, and 8000 grit. I think this stone in 1000 grit would be great for touching up turning tools, but it only comes 8x3x5/8", a bit too large/cumbersome for holding by hand on a turning tool at the lathe. Anyway... what sorts of stones (regardless of what they are made of) are you using?

An article (free to read thru the end of the month) about the Shapton Kuromaku as bench stones for chisels and plane irons. https://neversponsored.substack.com/p/shapton-kuromaku-stones-the-only
Click to expand...

Steve Tiedman said:
Just because I have a hankering to try something new in the shop, I'm wondering about different ideas for hand honing tool edges between trips to the grinding wheel.

I've got a couple medium India slip stones I've used in the past but I wasn't very fond of them. And I've used several DMT "credit card" diamond hones but they seem to not last very long.

If you touch up turning tool edges by hand, what are you using?

For bench chisels and plane blades, I'm going to ween myself off diamond hones (300, 600, and 1200 grit, all 8"x3" plates) and move to Shapton Kuromaku water stones in 1000, 5000, and 8000 grit. I think this stone in 1000 grit would be great for touching up turning tools, but it only comes 8x3x5/8", a bit too large/cumbersome for holding by hand on a turning tool at the lathe. Anyway... what sorts of stones (regardless of what they are made of) are you using?

An article (free to read thru the end of the month) about the Shapton Kuromaku as bench stones for chisels and plane irons. https://neversponsored.substack.com/p/shapton-kuromaku-stones-the-only
Click to expand...
I love water stones for knives especially. They can be tricky for chisels and plane irons as they are soft and edges can cut into them when using a push stroke. Ceramic, diamond, Norton type man made, and natural oil stones are excellent for push grinding. There is a huge variety of shapes in slips, rounds and squares from machinist suppliers for honing high speed steel.
 
From what I've researched, these Shapton water stones cut fast but wear well, a harder surface than other water stones, and perform really well with chisels and plane irons. No soaking, either, just splash the surface and go to work. Regular surfacing with a dressing plate is needed.
 
I did try a couple of water stones and didn't care for them. Mostly because they need constant maintenance, like flattening and soaking. I found diamond to be far easier to work with. DMT now makes stones up to 8000 grit for sharpening. For plane irons, I use a Shapton 16000 grit for the micro bevel, then strop, but diamond all the way up to that.

robo hippy
 
If you freehand sharpen the fingernail gouges, it would seem using a high grit CBN wheel would work great as a substitute for honing. Not a time saver, however, if you use a holder (Verigrind). On a good day, I can hone these gouges nicely with either the DMT card or a D-Way CBN honing bar. I almost always hone skews, saves time and steel.
 
I'm late to this party.

After sharpening on any wheel, I remove the grinder burr with the leather stropping wheels on the Tormek, using their compound. Some very gentle pressure polishes the edge a bit and makes the edge sharp, sharp, sharp. Compare the edge before and after under a microscope.

I've got a zillion honing things with diamond, ceramic, etc, and have used them all. But my hands-down favorite for skews and the outside of hollow-ground gouges is the Eze-Lap diamond hone.

hones.gif

I love these because of the shape. I hold the handle against my palm with a couple of fingers and support the abrasive plate with my forefinger. The slight curve behind the plate perfectly fits my finger. This gives excellent control - lets me "feel" the bevel and edge.

I use the extra-fine ones with blue handles most of the time, the slightly coarser red handled one to flatten the sides of curved hand (card) scrapers.

I use them for a lot touching up a hollow-ground skew or spindle gouge a time or two before going back to the grinder - glide the hone against the edge and heal at the same time.. I don't like the credit card scrapers since they are awkward to hold. The larger and heavier honing plates are good for certain tasks when set flat on the bench but not when hand held. I do use a couple of rounded ceramic and diamond hones on occasion to touch up the flutes of certain gouges. I don't use them to remove burrs from the grinder - for that the leather wheels on the Tormek are better.

These aren't cheap but long time ago I contacted the company and ordered a life-time supply at a big discount.

These have a hard, flat plate with the grit. Warning: don't buy the cheaper ones with the grit on what looks like a piece of sheet metal pressed around the handle. I've used both and I don't recommend these.

Another thing I use a lot to refresh skews (and spindle gouges) to shaving sharp is something I made in an enlightened moment. I resawed a piece of MDF on the bandsaw and left the exposed surface rough. I rub polishing compound on the rough surface(s), any type will do. I simply set the MDF flat on the work bench, put the skew near the top flat with both the edge and heel touching, lift the handle a tiny bit and press hard while pulling the skew towards me. Flip and repeat on the other side. The result is amazing, shaving-sharp again after a couple of strokes. You can tell it's removing metal since the compound gets black streaks from the steel.

stropping-board.jpg

JKJ
 
Similar to many, when I want to just touch up the skew, I have a small 1x5 diamond imbedded one one side bonded to a 3/16 Arkansas black on the other. Its nice to just ghost it a few times to get back to keen. Since I mostly hollow grind by skew to profile, it doesn't need to take much mass off to get the edge smooth and sharp. Once the hollow grind is completely gone, I usually grind it again.
 
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