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Happy New Year.....good riddance 2017

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
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Location
Missoula, MT
Looking forward to a productive and fruitful 2018.......2017 ended up on a sour note, as i"m now typing on an Iphone-1 that isn't supported by all the latest apps. If I have speling errors, that"s the way it is until I get a new computer. The old one has a corrupted hard drive. Had to shut down my online store, because I can"t process any orders. Rats! :(

Here's wishing you all a great TuRNiNG new year! :D

-----odie-----
 
Odie,
Those computer issues can be really aggravating to say the least. The IT department at work
are replacing older computers with newer ones with newer software. This always turns into a
pain for anyone that has older applications that they have been using. Every new release of
operating, networking, application software ends up being buggier then the prior release. I have
(2) computers running at home that have required applications loaded so if one goes down I have
another machine that can take over.
 
Mike Johnson said:
Odie,
Those computer issues can be really aggravating to say the least. The IT department at work
are replacing older computers with newer ones with newer software. This always turns into a
pain for anyone that has older applications that they have been using. Every new release of
operating, networking, application software ends up being buggier then the prior release. I have
(2) computers running at home that have required applications loaded so if one goes down I have
another machine that can take over.
Click to expand...

Yeah Mike .......Yer tellin' me....ha,ha! :D

The old pc is about 10 years old, and it's been getting real cantankerous over the past year.....and i think this last windows-10 update was "the last straw!" that killed it..... :eek:

I'm not much of a computer guy, but my brother knows much more than I do. He reccomended this used one from Discount Electronics in Texas: Dell Precision quad core Xeon T3500 work station, 12GB memory, 1TB hard drive, Windows 10 home, DVD-ROM, WI-FI, $279

All that sounds like jibberish to me, but he assures me it's a good one! :D

It was shipped yesterday.....

(Sheesh, it's taking me forever to type these messages out!..... :()

-----odie-----
 
Last edited:
"Good Riddance 2017" ... I think I know the words to that song. The second verse goes something like this:
I knew things were off to a bad start when my first rotator cuff repair didn't hold and had to be redone. A few more months of wearing a sling, many more of physical therapy and no woodturning.

I'd been postponing back surgery for a couple years, but couldn't continue to put it off any longer so as soon as I finished shoulder therapy it was time for back surgery. More physical therapy.

Now, it's time for neck surgery. I'm telling you, this getting old stuff ain't for sissies. It's too bad that I can't cram that one in 2017 with all the other bad stuff. I hate to spoil 2018.​

Well, that's my song. I know it don't rhyme, but maybe it could be a blues song.

ps: For your new computer I'd recommend getting an external hard drive backup or even better would be to have two hard drives in what's known as a RAID1 configuration. That saved one of my computers from any downtime when one of the hard drives failed a few years ago.
 
odie said:
Yeah Mike .......Yer tellin' me....ha,ha! :D

The old pc is about 10 years old, and it's been getting real cantankerous over the past year.....and i think this last windows-10 update was "the last straw!" that killed it..... :eek:

I'm not much of a computer guy, but my brother knows much more than I do. He reccomended this used one from Discount Electronics in Texas: Dell Precision quad core Xeon T3500 work station, 12GB memory, 1TB hard drive, Windows 10 home, DVD-ROM, WI-FI, $279

All that sounds like jibberish to me, but he assures me it's a good one! :D

It was shipped yesterday.....

(Sheesh, it's taking me forever to type these messages out!..... :()

-----odie-----
Click to expand...


OK, then it wasn't really a hard drive failure, but just an old computer that was gradually boggling down ... probably couldn't handle all the background processes. I have an old Windows XP machine sort of like that. It's now a shop computer. We have another XP computer that is limping along, but I bought a new Dell for my wife to replace it ... it's the first store bought computer that I have purchased since my Apple ][ days over thirty years ago. Sheerest, is time flying or what?
 
Bill Boehme said:
OK, then it wasn't really a hard drive failure, but just an old computer that was gradually boggling down ... probably couldn't handle all the background processes. I have an old Windows XP machine sort of like that. It's now a shop computer. We have another XP computer that is limping along, but I bought a new Dell for my wife to replace it ... it's the first store bought computer that I have purchased since my Apple ][ days over thirty years ago. Sheerest, is time flying or what?
Click to expand...

Bill.....hope you get everything squared away, and are back to turning again soon. :D

The ASUS computer was originally Windows-7, and converted to Win-10 when offered as a promoton around the end of summer. When booted up, it would revert to the Win-7 screen logo, but would freeze up......failed to respond from there. My brother did some testing, and decided the hard drive was corrupted......I wouldn't know, because I'm such a computer dummy! :rolleyes:

-----odie-----
 
odie said:
Bill.....hope you get everything squared away, and are back to turning again soon. :D

The ASUS computer was originally Windows-7, and converted to Win-10 when offered as a promoton around the end of summer. When booted up, it would revert to the Win-7 screen logo, but would freeze up......failed to respond from there. My brother did some testing, and decided the hard drive was corrupted......I wouldn't know, because I'm such a computer dummy! :rolleyes:

-----odie-----
Click to expand...

Sometimes free isn't worth the price. :D My workhorse computer uses an Asus main board and I am happily still using Windows 7. I declined the free "upgrade" offer to Windows 10 after seeing what a stinker Windows 8 turned out to be.
 
I agree Window 10 is the worst thing ever to happen to older PCs. I fought the upgrade attempts and held on to Window 7 which is very stable. I tried 10 out and was extremely annoyed by the programming attitude of removing functional decisions from the user at every turn and the interface looks designed exclusively for a smartphone. If I wanted that I would use a smartphone!
 
I build systems to help companies migrate their machines from one version to the next (we only do large migrations, companies with 5k to million device migrations). Windows 10 is by far the most ambisious OS by Microsoft. You need to understand when to accept a new build/upgrade, but the basic idea is that the OS will now be upgraded internally and no need to buy new version of windows and make major changes.

Windows 7 support will be dropped in 2020 so people will be forced to upgrade in couple of years. Windows is still a corporate OS more so than a consumer OS and the rise of smart devices forced Microsoft more into that direction.

Gary, Microsoft is moving away from mobile first approach to their system now that they finally accepted that Windows Phone is dead.

The scary trend however is that we are moving to a subscription model. In the next 2-5 years, you will be leasing software not buying it. We will get to a point where you will not need a local hard drive. More of a cable TV subscription model.

Personally, I have a work laptop that I only use for work related items. I don’t even check this forum on. For personal use, I switched years ago to iPad and do everything on iPad. Every now and then I may start an old laptop I have in a closet to unzip or unrar some files, but that is about it.

For those who want little more technical info, Microsoft release OS Builds to the public first. These called “Current Branch”. The public is used to verify that it is working, vendors use this time to fix their issues with the new build. 6 month later that build is made public to corporations as “Current Branch for Business” and new build is released to the public to test.
 
Well, for what it’s worth, I decided to stay with Windows 7 for now, and went the cheap route and bought a refurbished Lenovo desktop unit on Amazon with built-in Wi-Fi plus ethernet a 250 gig hard drive or thereabouts and for gigs of RAM, which I promptly upgraded for a pittance. Plus two IPS 22” ViewSonic monitors. All in for About 350 bucks, which is less than what I sold my MacBook for. IStill use the Mac products plus I don’t find their interface particularly intuitive or altogether functional in spite of my many many many years of use. In fact I prefer Linux

And, this machine is pretty decent. I use it to run my canon photo utilities, Photoshop, GIMP, CorelDRAW, plus the normal business productivity apps and so on and so forth. And, as Bill pointed out I do have an external Drive. Just a basic one gig HP my book that I got for I think $70 or something like it. I’m using it as a media server also, and have about 600 CDs recorded in FLAC format and still have more than 60 percent of the drive available.

If you don’t need dual monitors, or already have monitors then you could probably do a new computer for under 200 bucks. By that I mean a refurbished.
 
Well, I just learned how to read so pardon me Odie, I just noticed you bought a computer already.. duh. :)
 
Bill Boehme said:
Sometimes free isn't worth the price. :D My workhorse computer uses an Asus main board and I am happily still using Windows 7. I declined the free "upgrade" offer to Windows 10 after seeing what a stinker Windows 8 turned out to be.
Click to expand...

I’ve avoided upgrades too. XP was the last good build as far as I’m concerned from a usability standpoint. We are actively considering moving our office to Linux.
 
"In the next 2-5 years, you will be leasing software not buying it."
Yep, screw the public. Another expense that I don't need. Might go back to the steno pad and abacus.
 
Every time Microsoft makes it's way into my computer to do an "update" amazingly the computer
gets a little slower each time. The hardware and software cartels work together to quietly and slowly
obsolete your equipment and software on a regular schedule. Microsoft hardly ever fixes the bugs
that affect commonly used applications even their own before they come out with a new and improved
release and we start all over again with trying to get an old legacy application or files to load.
Saving time and money my ass! It should be wasting time and money!

So I go out of my way to block Microsoft from doing updates and now they give a bogus wait 4-hours
before executing the upgrade which you select and then they instantly reboot your computer and start
updating the software no matter what you were doing at the time. KMA!

If you have an older computer that is running an older non-supported operating system, if you are on
the internet and they make their way in to do an update they will trash the O.S.
 
John Torchick said:
"In the next 2-5 years, you will be leasing software not buying it."
Yep, screw the public. Another expense that I don't need. Might go back to the steno pad and abacus.
Click to expand...

Yet another reason to start learning to like Linux
 
Just retired from over 35 years building a decent business using mostly Adobe software. When the subscription model was introduced, I made certain to retain a perpetual license to the last suite of apps I could. Now sitting at home with plenty of computing power and hardware to do most anything I need and compatibility with the hardware I amassed before the final curtain. I’ve given up staying ‘current’ for having the ability to do anything I want.
From what I’ve seen, the ‘upgrades’ to the software are, more often than not, of no real benefit to producing good work. The latest and greatest doesn’t really do anything we didn’t do 20 years ago, at least in my business (commercial photography, video, graphics and writing) The hardware is pretty easy to maintain, just keep on top of the hardrives for the most part. As long as I’ve got power, should be good to go, and as long asthere’s propane in the tank, I’ve got power...
 
I used to love OS 360 and JCL
Even wrote some assembly code.

Being more mature I don’t even want to copy scripts in html.
I like having apps and programs like PowerPoint, Access, Excel, and Qgis let let me analyze, organize, and present without the bother of wiring about the character encoding used by the disc.
Microsoft has made bridge from the iPad to the phone to the PC ALMOST SEAMLESS.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
Linux is not an OS for the average person. You will have many limitations/choices when it comes to applications, will need to be higher level of technical user, etc.
Click to expand...

Point taken. You do have to really enjoy getting under the hood a bit with Linux don’t you? I’m certainly no power user with it, but appreciate its lower system requirements, and applications are more widely available than in the past.
 
JeffSmith said:
Just retired from over 35 years building a decent business using mostly Adobe software. When the subscription model was introduced, I made certain to retain a perpetual license to the last suite of apps I could. Now sitting at home with plenty of computing power and hardware to do most anything I need and compatibility with the hardware I amassed before the final curtain. I’ve given up staying ‘current’ for having the ability to do anything I want.
From what I’ve seen, the ‘upgrades’ to the software are, more often than not, of no real benefit to producing good work. The latest and greatest doesn’t really do anything we didn’t do 20 years ago, at least in my business (commercial photography, video, graphics and writing) The hardware is pretty easy to maintain, just keep on top of the hardrives for the most part. As long as I’ve got power, should be good to go, and as long asthere’s propane in the tank, I’ve got power...
Click to expand...

I completely agree. The adobe upgrade treadmill is an abysmal existence for all but those who must stay current. As long as it’ll run on your hardware and driver support is there, it’s hard to justify some upgrades.
 
Fadi Zeidan said:
Linux is not an OS for the average person. You will have many limitations/choices when it comes to applications, will need to be higher level of technical user, etc
Click to expand...
I still have my slide rule from college (Class of 69/71). Does that tell you anything?
 
Linux is looking better to me every time that Microsoft comes out with a new OS. From a user perspective I think that XP was the ideal UI although it was admittedly becoming a dinosaur. My idea of an ideal OS is that it should be a wallflower, but it seems like Microsoft wants using a computer to be all about showcasing the bells and whistles of the OS.

BTW, Adobe switched to subscription software several years ago. In the long run its probably cheaper than purchasing a perpetual license, but it still sticks in my craw to pay what amounts to a ransom to access my data files.. Leased software has been the standard in industry for decades for CAD software.

Mike, compatibility testing of updates has become a daunting task with the nearly infinite combinations of hardware and software that exists on millions of computers.
 
hockenbery said:
I used to love OS 360 and JCL
Even wrote some assembly code.

Being more mature I don’t even want to copy scripts in html.
I like having apps and programs like PowerPoint, Access, Excel, and Qgis let let me analyze, organize, and present without the bother of wiring about the character encoding used by the disc.
Microsoft has made bridge from the iPad to the phone to the PC ALMOST SEAMLESS.
Click to expand...
Bill Boehme said:
Linux is looking better to me every time that Microsoft comes out with a new OS. From a user perspective I think that XP was the ideal UI although it was admittedly becoming a dinosaur. My idea of an ideal OS is that it should be a wallflower, but it seems like Microsoft wants using a computer to be all about showcasing the bells and whistles of the OS.

BTW, Adobe switched to subscription software several years ago. In the long run its probably cheaper than purchasing a perpetual license, but it still sticks in my craw to pay what amounts to a ransom to access my data files.. Leased software has been the standard in industry for decades for CAD software.

Mike, compatibility testing of updates has become a daunting task with the nearly infinite combinations of hardware and software that exists on millions of computers.
Click to expand...

I agree, Bill. The OS should be a background tool like our power grid; there to enable tools. It sticks in my craw too. And other than addressable memory and use of resource heaps, XP was ideal for me too.

It may or may not be cheaper to license, but you have to deal with feature bloat, interface changes, authentication hassles and - with Adobe in particular I find - a bunch of crap running in the background all the time. I’m constantly killing processes. And sometimes I have to reauthorize my computer and so on. I’m just glad that I’m passingly familiar with gimp, photopaint and other tools.
 
When our Windows laptop needed replacement 6 years ago, my wife & I made the leap to an iMac. We both have iPads, so a laptop wasn't needed anyway, & the desktop Mac is great for picture editing (I use LightRoom).

I am an IT professional and can't believe how long I fought against this move. MacOS is significantly easier to use. My wife's only problem was unlearning the hard way to do things. And after two OS upgrades, it still works, looks, and feels the same way. We didn't have to relearn how to use something that is supposed to be a tool to make life easier.

As for the subscription model, we are headed to a world where you have three choices:
  1. Use mainstream software and pay for it whilst using it
    • LightRoom
    • Microsoft Office
  2. Move to Mac
    • OS is free, as are upgrades
    • Photos is basic stuff, but free
    • Apple Office is free, and does almost everything a home user would want
  3. Move to OpenSource :
    • Linux has two options, and both are easy to install unless the PC is too old
      • Mint has an interface that is like Windows
      • Ubuntu has an interface that is like a Mac
    • Google makes Picasa, and there are others like GIMP.
    • LibreOffice
The thing to watch for is the move to software you don't install on your PC, but instead access run it using a web browser. This is known as Software as a Service (SaaS), and it's where our industry is going. The annual cost to use SaaS may seem high, but hosting an application n a company's site is significantly higher ! That is why companies like SalesForce.com are doing so well.

Good luck Odie.

Rich
 
Hey Rich,

I really appreciate your comments and agree that SaaS is where business is headed, it seems. Cloud apps and virtualization fashion servers, etc. are driving cost out of companies’ IT overhead. But on a personal level, even as I have encouraged our guys to actively move into cloud storage and we have had to embrace subscription app service, I’m unwilling to put my data on other people’s servers.

Call me a Luddite. Happy new year!
 
I know almost nothing about computers, never owned a slide rule and struggle with a calculator. but I will wish everyone a Happy New Year. Maybe I will actually learn something this year.
 
john lucas said:
I know almost nothing about computers, never owned a slide rule and struggle with a calculator. but I will wish everyone a Happy New Year. Maybe I will actually learn something this year.
Click to expand...

That's kinda like me, John. There are very few things in life I want to know everything I can learn about it.....and that includes woodturning! My interest in computers is pretty much the same as woodturning. What I do want to know, I only want to know what I can discover by my own initiiative, and not by methods others might more traditionally learn. I know that's a bit odd, but it IS me! o_O It is the kind of thing that makes me unique, or so I like to think about myself! :) .....others would call me crazy, completely nuts..............or at least "eccentric"!;)

Now, my brother, on the other hand, is the kind of guy who knows all about, and still uses a slide rule.....if you can believe it! He loves his computers, and owns about a dozen of them!.....tinkers with them all the time! I probably would never own a computer, if I didn't initially have a need to buy supplies for my shop...........but, I'm glad I did, because it led to other things that I couldn't live without now. If I could only have a crystal ball, and KNOW the results of attaining knowledge prior to doing it, I'd have more control over how it would effect my own destiny......and whether we realize it, or not, just about all input does effect your course in life to some degree. OK, enough philosophy.....for now! :D

-----odie-----
 
Last edited:
A bit off topic but an interesting tidbit of info- My father worked for a place that did contract R&D for companies that didn't have the staff or facilities for their own R&D. One project was a radio tower to be built on a mountain top in West Virginia. An engineer figured the sway of a 700 foot tower in a 10 mph wind- the sway for each foot! All figured with a slide rule! Dad said there were guys who could work a slide rule so fast their hands were a blur.
 
Mike Johnson said:
Every time Microsoft makes it's way into my computer to do an "update" amazingly the computer
gets a little slower each time. The hardware and software cartels work together to quietly and slowly
obsolete your equipment and software on a regular schedule. Microsoft hardly ever fixes the bugs
that affect commonly used applications even their own before they come out with a new and improved
release and we start all over again with trying to get an old legacy application or files to load.
Saving time and money my ass! It should be wasting time and money!

So I go out of my way to block Microsoft from doing updates and now they give a bogus wait 4-hours
before executing the upgrade which you select and then they instantly reboot your computer and start
updating the software no matter what you were doing at the time. KMA!

If you have an older computer that is running an older non-supported operating system, if you are on
the internet and they make their way in to do an update they will trash the O.S.
Click to expand...

I used Windohs for about 25 years, since ver 3.0. And totally agree, MS rarely fixes bugs. They just find a new UI solution to confuse you and hide the bugs.
So I switched to Mac. After overcoming the initial learning curve I'm very happy with it.

With hardware so cheap these days, there's no reason to keep the old boxes.
When I was a trader, the company bought us top of the line Dell towers, about $12k each, fully loaded. When the desk got shut down, I took it home, where it heated my room for 5 years. However, my MacBook Pro is almost 10x faster at a fraction of the cost.

The problem with Windohs is that upgrade path is so bloody hard.
Windohs other major issue is maintaining compatibility for so many different hardware configurations.
Which is why Mac has hardware matched to software. More expensive than generic hardware, but more reliable

I've been a Product Manager for software for 15 years and can see both sides of the issues.
1 - maintaining support for old products is a nightmare - its 80-90% of your operational support costs
2 - pushing users to stay current is difficult, unless you force the upgrades. However, Microsoft does a real poor job of this.

From the software companies point of view there's no solution that will keep everyone happy.
 
RichColvin said:
When our Windows laptop needed replacement 6 years ago, my wife & I made the leap to an iMac. [...]
Rich
Click to expand...

My wife and I did the same about three years ago and have not looked back. As an EE and IT guy from the early 70s (yes, I still have my Pickett slide rule in the office), I found it unacceptable that Windows is still crashing, burning, requiring reboots, and that I had to still think about things like drivers and (gasp!) even use an MS-DOS prompt from time-to-time.

So we have a MacBook Air with nearly a TB of solid-stage storage (no moving parts - light as a feather), and a nice iMac with a big high-definition display... I quit thinking about backups - the Apple Airport Time Machine handles that automatically. And just for belt-and-suspenders, everything also goes to the Apple iCloud.

Automatic backup was real handy about a year ago when my MacBook Air was stolen in a San Francisco trademark smash-and-grab. When the replacement arrived, I just did the restore from the Apple Airport Time Machine and all was exactly as it was before leaving home to get on the plane... Easy-peasy...

In summary, all I can say is, "So long, Windows... and thanks for all the fish!" :cool:

Ely
 
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