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Holly- difference between bush and tree

Richard Avram

Richard Avram

Joined
Oct 14, 2012
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Location
Michigan
I have had a request to make a peppermill from holly. Not the choice I would make with all the exotic woods out there but she wants it for a specific reason. I always assumed that holly was a bush and you couldn't get it in sizes large enough but as it turns out there is a holly tree. Does anybody know the differences in the characteristics of the wood?
 
There are numerous varieties of holly. The mst common around central Texas is Yaupon Holly which is generally too big to be a bush and too small to be a tree. I have seen a few that are almost a foot in diameter and over twenty feet tall. There is also a Dwarf Yaupon Holly that is used as an ornamental and it rarely gets over five feet tall, but then they are generally pruned to keep them more dense and compact. I have seen a few American Holly trees, but they are apparently fairly rare here. The ones that I have found are in moist heavily wooded areas. The American Holly is a true tree and has a tall straight central trunk and has a cone shaped canopy. I am sure that they can get very tall, but the ones here are less than forty feet tall.

I certainly would not consider cutting down an American Holly just to get some turning wood. Supposedly, holly is the whitest of all woods. I don't know if that is true, but I know that the Yaupon Holly is the whitest wood that I have seen. It does not have a distinctive grain pattern and it has a bit of a tendency to split s it dries. I believe that the wood of all hollies have similar characteristics.

BTW, I'm with you, it would be my absolute last choice for a peppermill.
 
Richard,
Holley is one of the most pleasing woods I have turned. It just peels off and feels good on the end of the gouge.

When I lived in MD I turned quite a bit of American holly.
17" wide bowls from a hurricane victim (tree was 3feet plus in diameter but hollow so 17" saw the biggest blank)
10" wide hollow forms and lots of Christmas ornament balls. I would air dry 4" round small trees for the Christmas ornaments. They did not crack and these would make nice pepper mills. We had jimmy Clewes in for a class and the students all turned vases from Holley and dogwood.
At the Greensborro symposium a buddy of mine paid for his trip buy filling his trunk with 14" Holley logs 3' long and selling them for $50 in the parking lot.

What I particularly like about turning the balls from rounds is that the balls took on a satin fabric look.

Holly in MD is very common as a small tree 6-8" diameter. There are a lot of 15-20" trees are not unusual but not common. I know of a grove of Holley where there are forty some trees 15-24" diameters.

I usually bleach Holley, because it develops a little blue stain while drying.
Bleach accentuates the white.

In central fla we have mostly Dahoon holly, and "east Paltatka Holley" a naturally occurring hybrid of American and Dahoon has been planted widely as an ornamental. Dahoon is often large enough to turn but is not quite as white as the American and gets a grey stain quite quickly if not turned the day it is cut. We also have Yaupon Holley but I have never found any large enough to turn.

For one pepper mill you could probably work a trade will someone in MD. The problem is getting it dry.
I would think through drill it, rough it round, microwave it, then re drill the ends and turn it.

Also you might check with Clay Johnson, choice woods. He carries a lot different woods and he may have holly in 3" squares.

Have fun
Al
 
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I did find some holly large enough from a supplier in North Carolina. I just wasn't sure if the characteristics were the same for all types of holly. It has just a little bit of bark inclusion and an area that almost looks like burl. It gives it a little more character but I have already had to put it back on the lathe once because it had a very gnarly feel to it once it dried a little. It did develop a couple of cracks in the top which I stopped with some thin CA glue but I still don't like the looks of it. If I ever did another one(which I seriously doubt) I would try bleaching it to make it more white. Thanks for that hint. I guess that's the problem with custom orders. People sometimes want something that just totally goes against what you would normally feel good about.
 
Richard Avram said:
I did find some holly large enough from a supplier in North Carolina. I just wasn't sure if the characteristics were the same for all types of holly. It has just a little bit of bark inclusion and an area that almost looks like burl. It gives it a little more character but I have already had to put it back on the lathe once because it had a very gnarly feel to it once it dried a little. It did develop a couple of cracks in the top which I stopped with some thin CA glue but I still don't like the looks of it. If I ever did another one(which I seriously doubt) I would try bleachingt it to make it more white. Thanks for that hint. I guess that's the problem with custom orders. People sometimes want something that just totally goes against what you would normally feel good about.
Click to expand...

I rarely did custom work.
Took one job for a friend who could not honor it due to time constraints to turn commemorative plates.
I was to make "8 plates exactly like a prototype I was sent from wood used in building the Sailing ship Sultana.
They gave me a 7" log. .....
Al
 
imitation ivory

Straight grained holly is sometimes sold as imitation ivory, drives the price up a bit! Would be my first choice for many inlay applications. Makes me wonder if someone was trying to get that ivory look to the pepper mill.

I have tons of the yaupon but I think I have burned all of it that was big enough to turn. Might try it sometime, been a little curious about it and Japanese Tallow. Two nuisance trees around here that I don't mind cutting down.

Hu
 
hu lowery said:
Straight grained holly is sometimes sold as imitation ivory, drives the price up a bit! Would be my first choice for many inlay applications. Makes me wonder if someone was trying to get that ivory look to the pepper mill.

I have tons of the yaupon but I think I have burned all of it that was big enough to turn. Might try it sometime, been a little curious about it and Japanese Tallow. Two nuisance trees around here that I don't mind cutting down.

Hu
Click to expand...

I don't think it has anything to do with a particular look. It's a gift from a girl to a guy and her name is Holly. Enough said.
 
It may seem a flip answer, but in some cases the difference between the bush and the tree may be 40 years. Sometime ago I saw a tree had been cut in my neighborhood and stopped to check. When I found it was holly, I asked for the trunk (14-15" diameter), but then had to ask my brother to use his pickup to haul it. When I told him where it was, he asked "What tree?", since the house was where one of his childhood friends lived. When we got there and he saw where the stump was, he said that it had been a "bush" when he was a boy.
 
The brothers at Turningblanks.net usually have some holly, but I doubt they are running 3" blanks of it through their new kiln.
 
I know Cook Woods like to put Holly in the kiln within hours, all to keep that blue stain away.

I cut some this early summer and am trying something completely different. I put it on the floor of the greenhouse. It gets hot and sometimes muggy in there. So????
 
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