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I need better planning

John DeSalvo

John DeSalvo

Joined
Oct 23, 2022
Messages
25
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13
Location
Overland Park, KS
I have a Jet mini lathe and I made something too small for me to fit my hand in the vessel to sand it. Also even though the piece is only about 7" long getting to the bottom with my tools on open segments vibrates more than I would like. I can't seem to get the right angle with my gouges and even my carbide tools bang pretty hard against the wood when I try to turn the inside. I have too much time invested to blow this thing apart with a catch or just scar it badly, so I got the walls to about .5" and then stopped at that point. The outside was easy and smooth to turn, no banging at all, so I must be doing something wrong when trying to turn the inside. I think some of my problem is extending my tool too far over the tool rest.

Then I went to sand it and realized my meat hooks won't fit inside. I was able to put sandpaper on a stick and sand it that way, but I can't fit my hand inside to check how smooth it is. Then I have to figure out how I'm going to put a finish on it. Any suggestions on how you would solve the vibrations/banging?
 

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Hi John! Thank you for bringing the topic of vibration forward...You aren't the only one struggling with this issue.
There was a thread started in this forum by Gabe Latner on October 11th "Hollowing Direction" - there is some great information in there about the issues you are having.

Your second issue of sanding the inside of a hollow form with a small opening - my opinion don't do it - unless the lathe is off...
Let me know if I can help any further.
Regards,
Lyle
 
Hmm, of course things like this are clear after you are done.... As with any turning, the cleaner your cuts are, the less sanding you have to do. As an after thought, you could have made 2 halves and then glued them together, and that would have left a larger opening, till they were glued up anyway. I don't know if any one makes a tear drop NRS (negative rake scraper) or not, but that might have done wonders for cleaning up the inside. I don't think one of the inertial sanders would fit in there, so that is probably out. Maybe another option is to make some sort of ball on the end of a dowel and adhere your abrasives to that, then chuck that up in a drill.

robo hippy
 
Lou Jacobs said:
Probably too extreme a suggestion, but if you were to reduce the wall thickness, or at least the opening by 1/4” (1/2” total) would that give you enough room to reach inside? Might also make it appear just a bit more delicate.
Click to expand...
I was hoping to turn the walls down to about .25", but until I deal with the vibration issue I don't feel comfortable doing that.
 
Dave Landers said:
If you can't fit your hand in, then it is likely that most people who would end up with this piece (whether sold or given away) won't either. So for sanding, as long as it looks ok in there, it doesn't matter so much. And make sure to check the hands of the recipient :)
Click to expand...
That's funny, small hands only.
The inside is pretty smooth, but I also need to put some type of finish on it.
 
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Michael Beswick said:
An automotive mirror on a stick with built in LED (or shine a pentorch inside) should show how smooth the interior is, coupled with a thin dowel which should talk to your fingers?

I have this https://hopewoodturning.co.uk/sandi...pe-pro-sander-complete-kit-with-abrasive?c=32 which works for most situations.
Click to expand...
I've seen those, but I don't think it would work on this bowl. I need to think about each step and what is involved to produce the project. I get excited and just start building something without a plan.
 
John, for the next one, build it in 2 halves…..it’s segmented. You can dry fit them together to create the outside form, separate them to turn your wall thickness and sand/ finish, then glue the two halves together as a last step. Two faceplates and you’re off to the races.
 
In my opinion gouges won't work very well hollowing that geometry. You would be happier with boring bars. Maybe that is what you mean when you say "carbide tools" Most carbide cutters I see people using are flat disks, about 1/2 inch diameter, although Hunter carbides are much different. I prefer smaller, say 3/16 inch, HSS cutting bits in a boring bar for such a shape. Also, experiment with rpm's. It is possible you are going too slow, and that's why you are getting the banging.
 
Russ Braun said:
John, for the next one, build it in 2 halves…..it’s segmented. You can dry fit them together to create the outside form, separate them to turn your wall thickness and sand/ finish, then glue the two halves together as a last step. Two faceplates and you’re off to the races.
Click to expand...
Thank you Russ, I have seen that done before, but I didn't think of it at the time.
 
Michael Nathal said:
In my opinion gouges won't work very well hollowing that geometry. You would be happier with boring bars. Maybe that is what you mean when you say "carbide tools" Most carbide cutters I see people using are flat disks, about 1/2 inch diameter, although Hunter carbides are much different. I prefer smaller, say 3/16 inch, HSS cutting bits in a boring bar for such a shape. Also, experiment with rpm's. It is possible you are going too slow, and that's why you are getting the banging.
Click to expand...
I think you might have the right answer here. I also thought I might be going too slow and increased the speed and changed to a new carbide cutter and the banging was much less. I'm going to try and turn the walls down and if I wreck it I'll just do it again but plan it out this time.
 
For sanding the inside of hollow forms, I have a dowel rod about 12 inches long. Rounded over one end and cut a slit on my bandsaw about 1.5 inches deep. I fold over lightly used round sandpaper from my dewalt sander and insert into that slit. It allows me to hit the the sides as well as the bottom. As far as getting a good inside cut, I'm still working on that with a Hunter Carbide, it's a work in progress for me.
 
John Walls said:
For sanding the inside of hollow forms, I have a dowel rod about 12 inches long. Rounded over one end and cut a slit on my bandsaw about 1.5 inches deep. I fold over lightly used round sandpaper from my dewalt sander and insert into that slit. It allows me to hit the the sides as well as the bottom. As far as getting a good inside cut, I'm still working on that with a Hunter Carbide, it's a work in progress for me.
Click to expand...
John, that is just what I did and it seemed to work pretty well.
 
Is this piece face grain or end grain orientation? The answer would have a lot to do with recommendations on turning the inside. Personally, I'm guessing Michael's suggestions are right.

As for sanding, get a large alligator forcep and tear off a 1X1" piece of the mat you stand on, bend your sandpaper around the cushiony material, grab with the alligator forceps, and sand away. Just like doing a box.

(Love that photo quality! Great background and lighting, well captured by my Brownie camera. ;))
DSC03853.JPG DSC03854.JPG
 
You can also buy some wooden balls like at Michael's and drill a hole in one for a dowel and then wrap the ball with sand paper. This keeps hands and fingers away from spinning pieces. As far as forceps never put your fingers in the holes of the forceps because if something goes wrong and they start spinning well you can guess what might occur. And even if you're just holding them if it spins they hurt, don't ask but you can imagine why I moved to the wooden ball:rolleyes:
 
@John DeSalvo
A lot of good advice has already been given, but I'd like to offer several quick thoughts for your consideration:
Make full size x-sect drawings and check that your tools will reach by laying them on the drawing. Can check that your hand will fit and fingers reach, too.
An assortment of tool rests is valuable to have, you want one that can fit in your opening and stay closer to the end of the tool.
A hollowing rig would be a big help in stabilizing a tool that's reaching out over the tool rest--captured bar vs articulated arm--my bias is the later.
Keep a very light touch on the tool, going for small shavings or dust.
NRS carbide tools might help (Easy Woods does make handle free tools)
Consider just sanding by hand-- it really is OK to turn off the machinery :) .
Lastly, check out segmentedwoodturners.org
 
John DeSalvo said:
I have a Jet mini lathe and I made something too small for me to fit my hand in the vessel to sand it. Also even though the piece is only about 7" long getting to the bottom with my tools on open segments vibrates more than I would like. I can't seem to get the right angle with my gouges and even my carbide tools bang pretty hard against the wood when I try to turn the inside. I have too much time invested to blow this thing apart with a catch or just scar it badly, so I got the walls to about .5" and then stopped at that point. The outside was easy and smooth to turn, no banging at all, so I must be doing something wrong when trying to turn the inside. I think some of my problem is extending my tool too far over the tool rest.
Click to expand...

I suspect your catches result from letting the cutting edge touch the interior wall below centerline. Also, hollowing 7 inches over the toolrest with handheld tools requires considerably more expertise than you probably have as a beginner. If it's any consolation, the walls of my shop still bear the scorched scars from all the naughty words and oaths that I swore at my lathe and tools as a beginner trying to turn with minimal learning (in other words, what was in the lathe owner's manual).
 
7” off the rest is too deep for a gouge. You really need a boring bar, which your carbide tool is one. You also need 4-5x of handle vs depth off the rest - 7” depth about 35” handle length, or a hollowing rig (my choice after blowing a few hf’s up).

Your carbide tool probably has too small of a bar. 7” would need 5/8” dia min, 3/4” is not too big. I use flat carbide inserts 8.9mm dia for my hand held hollowing. The smaller the better to reduce edge load. I also use 3/16” square hss cutters for the hollowing rig, but they are sharper and more aggressive than the carbide. The carbide is easier to control by hand.

A hollowing rig takes a lot of the stress out of the process, making it more enjoyable.
 
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