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Jimmy Clewes oriental box question

C

C Edward Moore

Joined
Apr 25, 2004
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Location
Burnt Chimney, SW Virginia
Website
www.burntchimneystudios.com
As one who watched Jimmy Clewes turn an oriental box (winged vessel) at around 3000 RPM at the OVWG Symposium last October, I am hoping others have seen him do this in person or on his DVDs. My question is simple:

What tool or tools did Jimmy use on the winged portion of the box?

Yes, I plan to get those DVDs and I may even get a DVD player so that I can see them somewhere besides on this computer. :D

My guess as to the answer to my question is a spindle or detail gouge held almost vertically.

Thanks for your help.
 
Hey Ed,

Sorry, can't answer your question, but haven't seen you round these parts for a while. Been lurking?

Welcome back.

M
 
Well, sort of

Thanks, Mark. I guess I have been lurking a little. I took a sabbatical until the unnecessary acrimony dissipated. And it seems to have done so.

I love the sign off of one of the members "A bulldog can whip a skunk, but is the stink worth it?". That about sums up my view of some things.

I turned fifteen collection plates for the new sanctuary of our church and delivered them a week and a half ago. That kept me out of the pool room for awhile, so to speak. :D

My wife and I will be at the Galt House in about three weeks. I hope to see you and many others from this forum and WC there.
 
Acrimony

Sometimes it takes time for some people to realize that, "free speech" notwithstanding, not every "forum" is their bully-pulpit for whatever agenda they deem vital to the advancement of the Species.

This forum has developed a distict identity, mostly due to the hard work of our moderators, that is commensurate with the AAW's unique mission.

Sorry I can't help with your question.

Post a pic in the Gallery of your plates.

m
 
Have no idea on your original question, but a brief response to you "board bullies". One thing I really like about this forum is that for the most part people are friendly, and when they aren't they tend to disappear. It is amazing to me how people will hide behind a keyboard to say things they would never have the nerve to say to your face. On many forums people know that they will never see each other, but on here I think some folks are more careful because we may meet them some day at an AAW Symposium.

I do have one I would like to meet face-to-face but I doubt he would actually ever attend a symposium. Everyone else on here I would like to meet face-to-face just to say hello, and maybe share a beer/coffee/water/etc. Possibly talk some woodturning also. :cool2:
 
Ed Moore said:
As one who watched Jimmy Clewes turn an oriental box (winged vessel) at around 3000 RPM at the OVWG Symposium last October, I am hoping others have seen him do this in person or on his DVDs. My question is simple:

What tool or tools did Jimmy use on the winged portion of the box?
Click to expand...
While I can't answer for Jimmy, it would be the same as square turning. You turn up the speed so that the wings coming around quicker and eliminate some of the bounce from the dead air (like cutting a propeller, wing, air, wing, air, etc.)

You can make the initial cuts with an fingernail ground (bowl) gouge and finish up with a negative rake scraper or a fingernail ground gouge.
 
follow-up

Al, will Jimmy be in Louisville? As to the sheep, well, the only ones accessible here are some Tunis sheep and they would rather stand and have my dog chew on their nose than move. While it excites the dog, I grew weary of apologizing to the owner for the bloody noses. So, no more sheep-herding competitions.

I had not meant to re-ignite the flames of passion about other posters. After getting two new stents in an artery a couple of weeks ago, I'm feeling great and loving life and am not trying to pick a fight.

I need to go in to the church and take pictures of the plates.
 
Negative Rake Scraper

Steve,

That's definately on my Symposium List to understand and [maybe] buy. I turn my winged things with my bowl gouge, but I'm not crankin' a 20+" long chunk of wood at 3,000 rpm! Yikes :eek:

m
 
negative rake scraper

I noted that the company that bought Glaser Tools will be a vendor at the Symposium. I suspect that the Stuart Batty NRS will be featured prominently. And one just may go home with me, unless it requires a new mortgage.

I have converted some scrapers to the NRS approach and like the results -- sometimes.

Thanks, Steve, and Mark.
 
Ed Moore said:
My guess as to the answer to my question is a spindle or detail gouge held almost vertically.
Click to expand...

Describes the best way to form an interrupted edge piece pretty well. I like the flat forged gouges for this work, because you can start straight in at a nearly 90 degree cross-grain cut, then roll the top of the gouge gently left as you drop the handle slightly and peel. If you use a gouge with too much fingernail, you find yourself either slapping it with the side of the nose that's curving away from the piece, or contorting to get the right side vertical enough to try and lengthen the cutting edge. Or worst of all, especially with a cylindrical gouge, allowing it to roll right and get a big catch with the steepening bevel.

The rest tends to get in the way of the best peel, which has the shaving falling from the bottom of the gouge, unless you do something similar. If you owned one, one of those Hout half-gouges would work pretty well.

Afterthought. A great technique on winged or square stuff for keeping the edges from chipping out on the two points where you must cut uphill is to take a spokeshave and chamfer back to the approximate limit. With nothing there to catch, even a bit of carelessness can pass without trouble.
 
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The answer

Thanks to Mike Brazeau I now know the answer to my question. Jimmy uses a 1/2" bowl gouge with the usual Wolverine grind and he uses a pull cut and then a pull shear scrape with the tool rolled over for the clean-up cut.

I'm considering trying a similar project, but NOT at 3000 RPM. :D

Have a great day!
 
Jimmy's Box

Hello there,

I'm almost certain that the wings are turned using a swept back bowl gouge...but to be certain I'll watch the DVD in a while when my 5 year old is safely in bed...she enjoys Jimmy's DVDs far too much and I'd never get her to bed if she knew they were on.

I hope you all enjoy his visit to the symposium. He's a nice guy and great to do business with...he gave a good deal on my new lathe not too long ago.

I'll post an accurate answer later.

Andy

It just occured to me that the whole process had been detailed in the UK magazine, "Woodturning" (www.thegmcgroup.com). The issue numbers are 160 & 161.

I quick look shows him using a long grind bowl gouge. This makes sense because you need the extra weight to account for the hit/miss of the wings.

I hope this helps...I'll watch the DVDs anyway :)

Happy turning

Andy
 
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Ed Moore said:
As one who watched Jimmy Clewes turn an oriental box (winged vessel) at around 3000 RPM at the OVWG Symposium last October, I am hoping others have seen him do this in person or on his DVDs. My question is simple:

What tool or tools did Jimmy use on the winged portion of the box?

Yes, I plan to get those DVDs and I may even get a DVD player so that I can see them somewhere besides on this computer. :D

My guess as to the answer to my question is a spindle or detail gouge held almost vertically.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

About a year and a half ago during a hands on with Jimmy he refined the Ellsworth grind I had on one of my bowl gouges to help me make that box. I still have my Ellsworth Gouge but another 1/2" gouge has been kept sharpened in what Jimmy refered to as a modified Irish grind. It works exactly as he said it would, not a quote but.....a little more forgiving but will not hold an edge quite as long as the Ellsworth. I hope this is of some help. :)
 
Sorry forgot ........

to add, picture an Ellworth ground gouge with the side grind flatter on top(not so much curve) and less metal on the bottom of the ground edge. David's original grind keeps more of the round shape of the gouge when viewed from the end than does the Clewes'.
 
Thanks

Thanks, Jake.

Someone sent me a picture of Jimmy using the bowl gouge on the box, and it is exactly as you have described. It looks like a Sorby gouge and I have one that lends itself to the straighter side like the picture shows.

I have recently been using a gouge that I got from John Jordan several years ago - I think John said that it was a Oneway - but I really like the way that gouge holds an edge. I haven't tried it on a winged bowl, yet. :D
 
Ed,

Does the picture show the position of the tool? If not this may be some help, The tool is presented with the flute at 9 o'clock and horizontal. Pulling from center outward the flute opens and rides the side bevel just off the tip. How much off the tip determines how light or agressive the cut.

As an aside, I have attended a demo. and two hands on sessions with Jimmy and consider him a "must see demonstrator" and a very pleasant individual, easy to talk to, without a hint of self importance to boot. If he sees this maybe he'll send me a quarter??!! :D
 
update..although too late it seems

Watching the DVD as I type and it is as I thought...and someone else has said...

copied a picture too...I'll post in case it's not the same as the one you already have...
 

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I haven't seen Jimmy Clewes either (seems we need to get him somewhere so we can all see him) I do turn a lot of square pieces and like Steve said you do need to crank the speed up. the two things I find the most useful are really sharp tools held at the right angle,and really light pressure on the bevel. No pressure would be the best but that's impossible, but I hope I get the point across that lighter is better.
I have been playing with the Stewart Batty grind of 45 degrees on my bowl gouge and then shortening the bevel (which he does but eli Avisery seems to be getting the most press for this) The shorter bevel seems to let me apply less pressure. Might be just in my head but I can tell a difference. The pieces I've been doing lately are long an thin at these outer edges and they flex badly so light cutting pressure is essential. The narrow cutting angle of 45 degrees takes less pressure to push through the wood so this makes it easier to be light on the bevel.
When I first saw Stewart do this he turned a winged vessel and sanded one side to 600 grit and the other side came straight off the tool. You could hardly tell the difference. Consequently I've been playing with this gouge ever since.
 
A picture is worth a thousand words. Jimmy is using what I call a pull cut in this photo and you can see he's cutting down hill with the grain. I do the same thing on my square hand mirrors (not as good as he does I'm sure) because they taper from thick in the middle to thin on the outside which means I have to cut from the middle out. A pull cut is the best way for me to do that.
What I described above is a push cut. On my new platters I'm running parallel to the grain so I can get away with a push cut from the outside in and I feel I have more control this way.
Jimmy, I've always been very impressed with your turning and never seem to be in the right place at the right time to see you, other than passing in the hall at the symosium. I'll try harder.
 
I think Stuart recommends 40 deg, so the dominant vector of force is in the direction of cut. With 45 deg, you have equal vectors in the direction of the cut & against the wood. At least that's what I had in my notes from his class from 2 yrs ago. If I recall, the bevel length is a trade-off between the stability of the cut, and the finish & agility of the cut. Less bevel, and one would have less metal that the wood might bounce and more agility. However, the direction of the cut is more difficult to control with a shorter bevel. That was his reasoning, and it seems to jive with what I have experienced.
 
Jimmy Clewes DVD's/videos

One of the first purchases I made at the Symposium was the set of Jimmy Clewes DVD's. The oriental box is one of the projects and I have watched it more than once.

I am amazed at the the clarity of explanation Jimmy displays on the DVD's. My hat is off to this young man.

As to the proper angle to rotate the flute - I try to find the "sweet spot" and go with that. Different woods, different sharpness, and speed of the lathe will affect the choice.

Ed
 
Jimmy Clewes Oriental-style box question

I also purchased Jimmy Clewes three "Turn It On" video set at the recent AAW meeting. I have found these videos to be the best demonstration videos that I have seen, both in content, and professional videography by Avanticom Company. Jimmy is an excellent demonstrator, and all three videos are exceptional in tips, how to's, and ideas for wood turning projects. I have over the years acquired many demonstrator videos, and feel that Richard Raffin is the only other turner who is on par with Jimmy Clewes as a a teacher. I would recommend it to anyone who wants to enjoy woodturning more. Money well spent. I hope that Jimmy and Avanticom make many more such videos. Thanks Jimmy and Avanaticom for jobs well done.

Mark Ost from Pineville, MO
 
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Jimmy Clewes

Hi Al,

I did see Jimmy in Louisville. Like many of the big hats, he was besieged by everyone and I only had a brief moment to say hello. My questions have been answered - just watch his DVD/videos and the info is there.

Unlike the OVWG symposium, the AAW event was so fast and furious that having a moment to chat was rare. I tried several times to say something to Graeme Priddle, but finally gave up. I decided that unless someone's shirt was on fire I wouldn't bother the big hats. Having a thousand of your "closest friends" pounce on you can't be fun and those guys deserve a chance to enjoy themselves too.

Trying to be nice has a cost too. Bonnie Klein was trying to get a cup of coffee during a break with the kids and she asked me if I knew where it was. I was not on the floor I thought I was on at the time and couldn't find the place. So the next day I saw Bonnie as she was about to enter the kids area and offered to get her some coffee. She declined, saying that she wouldn't have time to drink it. Rather than feel like a "stage-door Johnny" I abandoned my effort to be nice and went back to the vendor area and vowed to stick to my own agenda and leave the big hats alone.
 
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