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Lacquer Finish Turning Question

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I am finishing a tall 2' ft vase and kept the tenon on it for the time being. I am using spray can Deft because its only one project but I am running into a couple problems.

I sanded to 220 - Applied 3 coats of home made DO - cure for 1 week - applied 50/50 lacquer/ lacquer thinner - 2 coats as a sealer and sanded flat with 220. Cleaned it off well and applied 4 coats of Deft spray gloss lacquer to the whole vase - let it dry for a week and then sanded lightly with 320 - applied 2 more coats yesterday thinking this would be my finish coats and was going to let cure for a week or more. I notice I have a few areas of aligatoring, some areas look great but im just not getting the results that I wanted........I read about using pumice and Comet for final rub out but never tried either of those methods

Questions: Is the best way to complete this to use 0000 steel wool and get the entire project smooth out and then let cure - buff with WD and Ren wax ?
Can anyone suggest a better method for applying lacquer and finishing projects like this ??? or tell me how you are doing it differently?
I really like using Lacquer but seem to run into issues at times with my method so im turning to you fellow turners for some other protocols.
Thanks in advance for the help...........Dan
 
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First Question:

What is "DO"?

Your top coat will only be as good as the base on which it's applied. From your description, you seem to be wasting both time and product. Solvent lacquer does not cure like reactive finishes, so waiting a week does nothing for a solvent lacquer or other evaporative finish.
 
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Mark............... Sorry - DO meaning Danish oil

I am not following you completely - base is sanded to 220 and all defects and swirls removed by hand sanding the last bit (which I thought would be adequate for a film finish)- then the Danish oil was put on and sanded in and gives it a nice smooth but dull looking finish - aside from a bit of grain popping.
I usually will put a oil product on using either the Danish Oil or Formbys Tung or Waterlox Tung on 2-3 coats and let sit for a week or so to completely cure before any top finish.
The Lacquer in my thinking is the top finish that will add a nice gloss finish to the pc. Sanding with 320 or 400 to level and get out small imperfections......
I understand your comment on the Lacquer and not having to wait a week due to solvent evaporation - It was just mentioned to me by another finishing person to leave it for a bit to ensure it is fully cured out before trying any buffing etc.....but I understand your point

Do you have a different protocol ? Thanks
 
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It's a recognized method to use an application of a drying oil to "pop" the wood grain before moving to the harder finish top coats. One application is usually enough, however. Wet sanding an application of oil is an old flatwork trick to use the slurry as a grain filler. In order to get the benefit, you need to allow the dust/finish slurry to set up and harden, then dry sand it back level. The new waterborne grain fillers will do a much faster job. You can actually get the same grain-pop with a wipe-on application of dewaxed shellac which has the added benefit of raising and stiffening loose wood fibers that are easily removed with fresh abrasive or a well-sharpened card scraper. A dewaxed shellac coat will also function well to seal your oil application, and set the stage for the lacquer.

Now to your lacquer. Spray-can Deft (as with most rattle-can stuff) is a very thin, low solids product. Yes, it'll make things shiny, but if you're looking to build an optically clear solvent lacquer finish with real optical depth, you'll need a lot more Deft than you mentioned. Your sanding between coats of lacquer was removing much of what you sprayed on. Since lacquer, like shellac, has the property of 100 percent burn-in (each coat partially dissolves the prior one so you wind up with a single amalgamated layer of the resin) sanding is a waste of time and finish unless you are spot-removing dust particles, runs or sags. Most any lacquer can be lightly sanded within 90 minutes to remove imperfections in the film. Then clean the surface and recoat. The benefit here is that the sooner you recoat, the better burn-in you'll get to the previous layer.

I'll side-track a tad here to recommend that you investigate the new acrylic waterborne lacquers, like Target Emtech EM 6000. Yes, you'll need an HVLP mini gun to apply them properly, but the results can be impressive. And they build depth very quickly.
Examples = http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=9201 Caveat being that they won't "repair" as easily as will a full solvent finish.

If you're looking for high-end optically pure finish films, you should plan on anywhere from 12 to 20 light wet applications of lacquer, correcting only defects as you go. When you've built your dry film to say 8-10 mils, let your piece sit for a week or so to get maximum hardness in the film by allowing time for all the solvent to fully evaporate and the film to shrink down tight to the wood. Then go to your papers, starting at 400 and work your way up to 1500 before you go to the compounds.

After you finish with the paper abrasives and you want to buff, be patient and use a slow wheel to prevent friction-heating the finish film. Heat the resin with a buffer and you do serious damage. Use only quality buffing compounds; white diamond and jeweler's rouge are pretty standard. Comet is made to clean floors and slop sinks. The grit used is not uniform and will wreck a carefully sanded finish not to mention the effect of the bleach and other s[tuff]; forget it.

Personally, I prefer hand-rubbed finishes. I use Menzerna products, but the Meguires compounds you'll find in the auto supply clean/wax rack are very good as well. Start with a #2 fine cut cleaner, move to #3, then #6 machine glaze, and end with #9 Swirl Remover.

Good luck!!:D
 
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Bill Boehme

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To add to what Mark said about sanding the lacquer, I only use Micromesh between coats and, even then, I need to be careful about sanding through the finish.

Also, I don't see a need to apply a sanding sealer over an oil finish. Sanding sealers are mainly useful for bare wood.
 
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Also, I don't see a need to apply a sanding sealer over an oil finish. Sanding sealers are mainly useful for bare wood.

Old finisher's rule, Bill: "Shellac sticks to everything and everything sticks to shellac." ;)

While in many cases you're quite correct that it's not necessary, it's any easy step that can prevent problems in the topcoat before they appear.

(No, I don't own stock in a shellac company.:D)
 
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Mark............... Sorry - DO meaning Danish oil

I am not following you completely - base is sanded to 220 and all defects and swirls removed by hand sanding the last bit (which I thought would be adequate for a film finish)- then the Danish oil was put on and sanded in and gives it a nice smooth but dull looking finish - aside from a bit of grain popping.
I usually will put a oil product on using either the Danish Oil or Formbys Tung or Waterlox Tung on 2-3 coats and let sit for a week or so to completely cure before any top finish.
The Lacquer in my thinking is the top finish that will add a nice gloss finish to the pc. Sanding with 320 or 400 to level and get out small imperfections......
I understand your comment on the Lacquer and not having to wait a week due to solvent evaporation - It was just mentioned to me by another finishing person to leave it for a bit to ensure it is fully cured out before trying any buffing etc.....but I understand your point

Do you have a different protocol ? Thanks
It should be noted here that Danish Oil, Formbys Tung Oil Finish, and Waterlox are all varnishes, and not simply tung oil.
 
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Im assuming you are using the DO to make the grain pop. If you are using the lacquer over DO then I would do the following.
only do one coat of DO . Then make sure it is totally cured, or you will have trouble with the second film finish. Do not do multiple coats of DO if you are using a second film finish over the danish oil. If you do I’d suggest shellac between the two. Two coats will not usually be cured in a week. And it usually will not enhance the grain any more than one coat. Then do your lacquer.

I would not put a coat of 50/50 lacquer thinner over DO, as you are probably causing the dried cured DO To uncure and you are back to square one.
 
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I use lacquer when I want a fully filled glossy “piano” finish, though I use a spray gun, which does a better job. Rattle cans can do it, typically more coats and sanding back to get it right.

As for sanding/rub out. Between coats, as soon as the lacquer powders it can be sanded, just depends on ambient conditions. Sometimes less than an hour. Final sand/rubout - let the piece sit for 30 days if possible. Most finishes, and especially lacquer, continue to shrink for quite some time. The longer you wait, the less “telegraphing” of the grain through to the polished surface.

Using an oil to create chatoyance (pop the grain) is a needless step. Solvent lacquer provides good chatoyance. I normally dye the pieces I finish in lacquer - transtint in dewaxed shellac for dye color, then topcoat with lacquer.

WB lacquer - wb finishes have no chatoyance. Shellac under it works pretty good, but not as good as solvent lacquer IMO.
Here are a couple of pieces. Pics dont show chatoyance, the piece needs to move
 

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I agree with Glenn .. I only find it unusual when someone necros a topic with an answer that seems just barely relevant and then goes away.. I assume the account had been hacked by a spammer and there'll be some sign of an advertising or tracking link - sometimes subtle and only found by checking the poster's public bio... but when a thread continues with generally useful information that is on topic, I don't particularly care..
 
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