• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Paul May for "Checkerboard (ver 3.0)" being selected as Turning of the Week for March 25, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Lead for leveling

Emiliano Achaval

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
3,307
Likes
4,226
Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
When I got my new Omega lathe Stubby 1000 last year, I built a little concrete pad to make her a bit higher, about 2 inches. I tried to make it too pretty. following the pattern of the wide steel plate plus one inch. Ended up that it wasn't perfectly level, or evenly smooth. It has been bothering me ever since. When I bolted her down, some of the epoxies squeezed out of the hole when I pushed in the bolt. I just learned that the lathe was sort of basically sitting on a washer-looking thing of brittle epoxy. I knew she could be better and more stable. As good as she was, I knew she could give me better performance. I mentioned this to Stuart Batty when he was here. I told him I was going to build a new concrete pad for her majesty. He suggested first try adding lead on each corner. I say corner because the plate has a slight bend, which makes that only the "legs" or four corners sit on the ground. I ordered a sheet of lead 1/8 in thick. I think that is used in roofing. Cut it into 4 equal pieces. Unbolted her and lifted her with an A-frame tripod loaned by my good friend Wayne Omura. I scraped all the epoxies, cleaned the bottom well, and placed the lead. What a difference!! Smooth, solid, even, flat as a pancake, and most importantly: level. So far I only tighten the nuts twice, and I think that's as much as the lead will compress.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Well, time will tell, but I would expect the lead to compress, faster if you use the lathe a lot. I would have one leveling nut under the corners, and a tightening nut on top of the plate.

robo hippy
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
1,053
Likes
1,463
Location
Rainy River District Ontario Canada
The lead will do what the epoxy did, it will squeeze out from under the legs that pressure it, Aluminium will do this also, harder metals will do it to if you squeeze it hard enough, lead being a soft metal it will flow out by the pressure easily.

shimming can be done with brass or steel shims or like Gary mentioned with special mortar.
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
I think that your lead solution will work just fine. Lead usually has just enough antimony so that it won't cold flow provided that all four feet are sitting equally solid on the floor (no wiggle room). I think that Gary Beasley's solution is the best for bedding a machine to the concrete slab. You can also flatten the high spots on a concrete slab by sanding, and it's a lot easier than you might imagine until you've seen it done.

And, how do you know what gender your lathe identifies with? :D
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
724
Likes
342
Location
Seattle, WA
Emiliano , What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you simply want the lathe securely anchored to the floor or to be level and securely anchored to the floor. Since you didn't mention anything about using a level as the nuts were tightened it doesn't sound like leveling was part of the plan.

My guess is all you did was distort the lathe bed to conform to the un-evenness of your mount pads. That securely anchored the lathe to the floor. Certainly you couldn't have applied enough pressure to compress lead.

I agree with Robo on this. Screw a nut onto the epoxied studs, drop the lathe down over the studs and add a final nut to hold the lathe down. Then way you have a permanent mount with the ability to level the lathe if you think that's necessary. That's the way precision machinery is installed where the installation is critical to achieving the machine's performance.
 

Bill Boehme

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Messages
12,886
Likes
5,169
Location
Dalworthington Gardens, TX
Website
pbase.com
Emiliano , What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you simply want the lathe securely anchored to the floor or to be level and securely anchored to the floor. Since you didn't mention anything about using a level as the nuts were tightened it doesn't sound like leveling was part of the plan.

My guess is all you did was distort the lathe bed to conform to the un-evenness of your mount pads. That securely anchored the lathe to the floor. Certainly you couldn't have applied enough pressure to compress lead.

I agree with Robo on this. Screw a nut onto the epoxied studs, drop the lathe down over the studs and add a final nut to hold the lathe down. Then way you have a permanent mount with the ability to level the lathe if you think that's necessary. That's the way precision machinery is installed where the installation is critical to achieving the machine's performance.

I think that Emiliano might actually mean "flat" when he says "level". I'm thinking that the word "level" would more likely apply if we wanted the bed of the lathe to be perpendicular to the local gravity vector. On many lathes that can be done even if the floor isn't exactly flat or level. My sense of balance isn't so fine tuned that I fret about the lathe bed being perfectly level. Having a flat floor is nice because it makes it easier for all four feet to be carrying the load. It sounds like the Stubby might not come with leveling pads or some other means of getting the load distributed on all four corners.
 

Emiliano Achaval

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
3,307
Likes
4,226
Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
I think that Emiliano might actually mean "flat" when he says "level". I'm thinking that the word "level" would more likely apply if we wanted the bed of the lathe to be perpendicular to the local gravity vector. On many lathes that can be done even if the floor isn't exactly flat or level. My sense of balance isn't so fine tuned that I fret about the lathe bed being perfectly level. Having a flat floor is nice because it makes it easier for all four feet to be carrying the load. It sounds like the Stubby might not come with leveling pads or some other means of getting the load distributed on all four corners.
Yes, flat would be the right word. The concrete pad is already level. But it was not perfectly even. Those of you that suggested using a nut to level her Majesty, I'm guessing that you have never seen one Stubby 1000 in person. The base is one single large and heavy steel plate, flat. There is no way to do the nut trick here. And @Bill Boehme is right, the lead will not squeeze out or completely flatten. I'm not experimenting here, I'm doing a proven method used by experienced turners like Stuart Batty. Bill, since my wife is often jealous of my lathes, I have always thought of them as my girls, LOL She has told me several times that I spend more with my girls than with her, LOL AMd you are also right Bill, there is no way of leveling this lathe. That's why I had to make a new small concrete pad. My old early 1900 garage has a bad slope away from a hole in the ground. The hole was intended for the driver /mechanic in the old days to service the cars. You can walk in the hole. I have the hole covered with thick boards.
 
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
5,436
Likes
2,792
Location
Eugene, OR
Well, if I had been over there to pour your slab for your lathes, they would have been dead flat/level.... Did concrete work for 30 years, and every one I worked for told me I was too dang fussy to do concrete work. I should have been a finish carpenter....

The nut, and washer underneath would have worked if there was enough thread above the slab for the nut, the lathe bottom plate, and another nut and washer on top of that... We used plywood templates so we could use standard J bolts for metal buildings, which allowed to get the bolts in the exact perfect spot, just in case you ever do it again....

robo hippy
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
9
Likes
3
Location
Clyde, North Carolina
Well, if you do find the lead to be inadequate in the long run, try to elevate the lathe to the desired height and degree of level desired. Get a bag of non-shrink grout ( it should be available at a good lumber yard or masonry supply house). You simply squish/force the grout under the lathe and wait a day or two. Leveled many a steel post and streetlight post that way.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
724
Likes
342
Location
Seattle, WA
Googling on variations of "omega stubby lathe" brought up a website with not so good quality pictures of Emiliano's model 1000. I recall previously seeing pictures of that lathe and being impressed with the fore thought of the machined mounting pads on the bed sides easily enabling attachments to be added. Attachments could be of any sort, turning automation (CNC), tracers, hollowing assemblies, etc, etc.

What I don't understand is the thick plate that appears to be welded to the headstock and tailstock pedestals. Emiliano mentioned the plate was not flat. No wonder it's not flat if it was welded. That much welding could cause severe distortion of the whole lathe. I would be curious to hear their engineering justification for that plate. Also their thoughts on bolting the lathe down.
 

Emiliano Achaval

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
3,307
Likes
4,226
Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
Well, if you do find the lead to be inadequate in the long run, try to elevate the lathe to the desired height and degree of level desired. Get a bag of non-shrink grout ( it should be available at a good lumber yard or masonry supply house). You simply squish/force the grout under the lathe and wait a day or two. Leveled many a steel post and streetlight post that way.
Good suggestion. I still think the properties of the lead to absorb vibration are better than leveling grout..
 

Emiliano Achaval

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
3,307
Likes
4,226
Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
Googling on variations of "omega stubby lathe" brought up a website with not so good quality pictures of Emiliano's model 1000. I recall previously seeing pictures of that lathe and being impressed with the fore thought of the machined mounting pads on the bed sides easily enabling attachments to be added. Attachments could be of any sort, turning automation (CNC), tracers, hollowing assemblies, etc, etc.

What I don't understand is the thick plate that appears to be welded to the headstock and tailstock pedestals. Emiliano mentioned the plate was not flat. No wonder it's not flat if it was welded. That much welding could cause severe distortion of the whole lathe. I would be curious to hear their engineering justification for that plate. Also their thoughts on bolting the lathe down.
I'm not an engineer, but I do know that trying to level a huge flat steel plate would be nearly impossible. I'll imagine the chances of rocking would be high. The plate has just the right slight arch so just the corners touch the ground. Starting a discussion on bolting or not bolting a lathe would not be something I'm going to get dragged in again. This lathe was designed to be bolted down. You simply can't safely run it if is not bolted down. For more info you would have to call Rod Caddeye and ask him. I'm sure he would be happy to answer you.
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2014
Messages
424
Likes
420
Location
Dallas, TX
Why not 2x8 or 2x10 wood beam glue-ups (or screw-ups) with a platform bridging? It's not that you need to bolt the lathe down - the need is a wider footprint.
While the levelers on each foot are tweaked, I leave the lag bolts a little loose on my Oneway - when spinning up a fresh log that weighs 200, 300 or frequently 400+ pounds, and is grossly out of balance, a little feedback is a wonderful thing.
I also added a piece of Trex at the ends of the beams - my guess is the Trex is a bit more absorbing.
Assuming your circa 1900 garage is a dirt floor, two wood beams might be ideal - a few bucks at Home Depot and you're done.
 

Emiliano Achaval

Administrator
Staff member
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
3,307
Likes
4,226
Location
Maui, Hawaii
Website
hawaiiankoaturner.com
Why not 2x8 or 2x10 wood beam glue-ups (or screw-ups) with a platform bridging? It's not that you need to bolt the lathe down - the need is a wider footprint.
While the levelers on each foot are tweaked, I leave the lag bolts a little loose on my Oneway - when spinning up a fresh log that weighs 200, 300 or frequently 400+ pounds, and is grossly out of balance, a little feedback is a wonderful thing.
I also added a piece of Trex at the ends of the beams - my guess is the Trex is a bit more absorbing.
Assuming your circa 1900 garage is a dirt floor, two wood beams might be ideal - a few bucks at Home Depot and you're done.
Maybe on my next Stubby 1000, LOL. This one is there for good, and I'm more than happy with the lead.
 
Back
Top