lesser used woods

[Peter Hawkins]

I still have masses to learn, but I have noticed that most turners seem to use the more exotic, hardwoods, I may be wrong but you never seem to see any of the more common and garden woods, is it because these are less attractive and harder to turn and finish, or are they harder to come by?,or do people not want those woods to buy. By lesser I mean would like Loquat, Red Bud, Chinese Tallow, Bradford Pear to name but a few, these sort of very common woods,
Being new like everyone else who is new I just collected any wood I can find, a lot of it being common wood some types I can understand not being used, ie Hackberry and stuff like that, I turned some Chinese Tallow very insipid and boring, but from the same piece of limb I de- barked, and sealed some pieces, after some 8 weeks it had started to spalt , so I turned a piece, and I just could not believe the difference, doesn't look the same wood, I attach a pic of both pieces side by side,the spalted piece being on the rhs.
Its just an observation I have made, and not meant to offend.
regards peter

Darn, wish I knew why this is so big in the Forum????

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

99% of what I turn would fall into the "exotic hardwood" category because down here in South Florida those are our "common / garden" woods. Rosewood, Mahogany, Wild Tamarind, Norfok Island Pine, Acacia, Palm.....the list goes on and on.

We do have plain wood available as well, but why turn plain unremarkable wood when so many more attractive alternatives are readily available? Unless maybe I need something really plain that won't detract from planned embellishments.

There are some woods that just don't get used much because they can have real problems with stability and workability (abrasiveness, warping, cracking...). Australian pine, Scrub Oak and Bischofia come to mind.

If nobody is turning a particular type of wood, there is probably a good reason. I'm sure you can get lots of opinions from the members of your local turning club. Doesn't hurt to try something for yourself though.

I had a recent experience with a Chinese Orchid tree. Fresh cut wood not very remarkable. Let it spalt for a while and it develops absolutely gorgeous colors and striations. Unfortunately it also begins to smell strongly like horse urine. I couldn't take the smell as I was working it. It permeated my clothes, my hair, my skin. My wife wouldn't even let me in the house at the end of the day. It took about a week to get the stink out of my shop. I had to hunt down every last chip and shaving that had scattered about. Even a small piece of the stuff raised a big stink. It's now on my "don't use" list.

Ed

 

[Jim Stoppleworth]

I turn walnut, maple, elm, cherry, box elder, fruitwoods, all located within my area. I turn them because they're free. Neighbor burns walnut and cherry for firewood. Always saves me some good pieces. In other areas people pay good money for these same woods 'cause they're not common.

Jim

 

[Peter Hawkins]

thanks

Thank you ed and jim, guess I'm beginning to realize that its such a big area over here that each area has its own different but large selection of trees, burn walnut and cherry, to have such a large selection of quality woods must be great, I know in the uk its pretty much the same everywhere.

thanks guys

 

[jffink]

Your photo of the change in the character of the tallow is pretty amazing. The wood appears to spalt uniformly rather than in a way that gives what I think folks call zone lines. Regarding one of the other woods you mentioned, I once saw a very nice redbud piece done by John Jordan, and ever since then I've been on the lookout for some redbud to try on the lathe. (One must of course keep in mind that John Jordan is a master of design and of bringing out the best in a hunk of wood — so ...). Anyway, with one exception, I've only seen very small ornamental redbud trees here in Michigan — I keep hoping that I'll pass by that one big one while someone is trimming it. I'm not sure how easy it is to find in sizes large enough for turning in your locale, but if you've got it try it. I suspect that the bradford pear you mentioned would take detail quite well, since european pearwood is sometimes used in making turned musical instruments and carvings. I know nothing about the other trees you mentioned, but it is often fun to try out little-used woods and see what you come up with — sometimes "backyard exotics" are pretty nice. I read an article a couple of years ago with photos of nice small work made from the nuisance tree buckthorn, so apparently even weed trees can be usable.

Regards, John

 

[waltben]

Very interesting - the piece on the left looks just like several I've turned from a tree out of my front yard - locust. It's difficult to dry without cracking, but is easy to turn with figure much like oak and is very yellow.

 

[john lucas]

I turn almost entirely local woods. Locust, oak, hackberry, Lampus, cherry, osage orange, yellow heart, allanthus, maple, apple, dogwood, redbud, pecan, etc. I've even turned vines, like Wisteria.
I would love to be able to turn exotics but it's not in the budget. I do buy some flat wood exotics like Purple heart, holly, birdseye maple, cocobolo, and some ebony, for specific projects.
I rarely turn burls because I don't find many and buying them from commercial sellers is simply way beyond my means. In my area even a burl bowl won't sell for much over $100 and you'll have that much in the lottery.

 

[Peter Hawkins]

thanks

Thank you John, Walt Bennett, and John Lucas, it seems that all your different regions seem to have a multitude of lumber to pick from, some types indiginous only to that area but you also have a lot of very good hardwoods, there is an awful lot of Mesquite down here, and I suppose the use of which wood is also dependant on value the public put on it.
For me its quite awesome that there are so many types of wood here in america, its a pity we can't get a wood bank set up, where turners have an abundance of particular woods in their area, they can then swap with other turners who want that wood in exchange for the wood in the other persons area. ideal is good but the practical side may be hard to achieve particularly with the distance, thats another thing I have to get used to.
Thanks guys, peter.

 

[Ken Grunke]

Peter, do you have image editing software to change the pixel dimensions of a picture? Irfanview works pretty good for cropping and reducing images.
600 to 800 pixels wide max would be best for the forum image attachments, and it wouldn't stretch the forum post like that.

 

[Al Neighbors]

Hello Peter,
Bradford pear and Redbud are beautiful when turned and finished.
I'm from Texas also, and Mesquite pieces sell well in the craft market.
You can put a pretty nice size chunk of wood in a USPS flat rate box, and ship it anywhere in the continental US for less than 10 bucks.
There are people in other parts of the country that will be glad to swap wood with you.
I owe mesquite to two people who sent me some wood, and haven't gotten any worth sending yet. I had some large pieces but found that the inside of the tree had punky wood, and pith checks galore!
Anyway, thought you might want to know that.

 

[Sky]

I live in South Florida and have traveled to other areas of our country taking a bag or two of wood on the airplane to trade with local members. I've traded Norfolk Island Pine for Texas Ebony & Mesquite in Dallas & South Texas. Rosewood for Horse Chestnut & Walnut in Iowa. Royal Palm & Rosewood for ... well a very nice belt buckle made from the plam in Alaska. I think we learn to work the wood that grows locally according to what we want to turn and how each spiecies of wood is to be used. When I'm asked where I get most wood from , I reply... FRK - Florida Road Kill. We literally pick it up on the side of the road. Tree trimmer, friends, family , & customers call us regularly to alert us of a tree down.

 

[Peter Hawkins]

pics

Ken, thanks for the pointer regarding the software and your advice regarding the pics, i was getting pretty concerned about it.

Al, thank you for your note too, I have some rosebud and bradford pear looking forward to turning that, I have done one small piece of redbud and its beautiful, regarding mesquite I'm very fortunate that I have unlimited access to 150 acres of the stuff, but will be waiting till the fall before getting any more, the grass and shrubs are about waist high, and am wary about snakes. maybe when I get some more stock I can swap some.

Thank you again gentlemen, regards peter

 

[Peter Hawkins]

thanks

Thank you, also Sky most of mine comes from dumps and mulching companies, the other type we get here are fog wood (found on ground). I have noticed if i go out anywhere now either as a passenger or driver I'm looking at and for trees. Guess I'm getting obsessed lol,

regards peter

 

[MichaelMouse]

You can put a pretty nice size chunk of wood in a USPS flat rate box, and ship it anywhere in the continental US for less than 10 bucks.
There are people in other parts of the country that will be glad to swap wood with you.

I still think this practice ought to be discouraged. Too many exotic riders possible on those Trojan horses.

I turn the local stuff too, because I turn a lot, and I could end up with substantial capital tied up in "blanks" from Woodcraft. Not to mention the price of gas to get there. If it grows large enough I'll give it a shake, but the reason certain woods are commercially exploited is not just because of abundance and size, but workability. Appearance, given the varieties of stains and glazes, is secondary.

 

[Joe Greiner]

I guess I'd have to vote against root balls and tree stumps for workability. Not just the dirt inclusions that dull the tools, but also the hard labor of disinterring them. But, boyoboy, do they have wild and crazy grain and spalting patterns - almost worth the torture, and definitely worth it if you don't mind losing a few pounds. (Does that exclude any of us?)

Got most of a podocarpus (yew) that a neighbor had professionally felled; turns pretty well. Chinaberry seems to refuse to crack, or maybe I was just lucky. Mulberry (bush, don't know about the tree) has nice appearance - knots everywhere, but tends toward tearout due to short fibers. Sweet gum turns like butter; lots of it around here, mostly roadside orphans, but I can always drop one or two in my front yard if needed. Dogwood is probably best turned wet start to finish; otherwise tends to crack like mad. Christmas trees are interesting; I've only turned a Noble Fir; throws water around, so turn wearing a space suit; also lots of tearout, but clears up with a final planing cut.

BTW, some versions of VBulletin allow thumbnails. Are they before or after the version we have? Or is it just a feature not chosen?

Joe

 

[Peter Skellenger]

if you can mount it on the lathe, turn it and see what happens! I use mostly what I find but do scavenge exotic cutoffs for stoppers and tool handles, etc... Rude Osolnik (according to the aaw journal) was using weird pieces of scrap long ago to make weed pots, etc... stuff no one else was doing at the time. I have turned lots of roots and stumps and it is def worth the work. Today, i turned bottle stoppers out of eastern Hophornbeam ( Ironwood is common name in Michigan but its not the desert ironwood you may be familiar with) stump/roots. I have had this big stump/root for a while now and decided to cut into it. Its amazing. Blue, purple, reddish... lots of color and loaded with intense curly figure. It is very dense so it turns great and polishes the glass like finish. The stuff is very tough to season but I have had success with some nice bowls and some awesome rolling pins. I get about 50% dry, 50% cracks and I burn it. Its sure nice when it turns out though.... might as well try what you got!

 

[wdcarrier]

What's common for one turner is exotic for another. Access to some of the "common" woods you from the SE discuss is almost non-existant here on the west coast. My "common" woods are black (claro) walnut, California bay (myrtlewood), olive, and eucalyptus (red and blue gum). I once happened on a Chinese tallow that was cut down in a local park, turned it an loved it. But, try as I might, I can't find it offered anywhere. Yet, I have so much figured black walnut we're using it for cord wood. Too bad shipping has gotten so high as it'd be fun to trade "common" wood blocks.

Dean Carrier

 

[Al Neighbors]

Too bad shipping has gotten so high as it'd be fun to trade "common" wood blocks. Dean Carrier

Dean, you can stick a pretty nice chunk of wood in a USPS flat rate box. It'll go anywhere in the continental US for 8 bucks and change. It's a pretty good way to trade wood with someone.

 

[dkulze]

I turned a potato once.



Just thought I'd mention it.

dietrich

 

[Jake Debski]

I turned a potato once.



Just thought I'd mention it.

dietrich

What specie, Red, Idaho, Yukon Gold? Was it locally grown or an imported exotic?

 

[dkulze]

Was actually Idaho Russet. Made a natural edged bowl. Footed.

Dietrich

 

[Gretch Flo]

Idaho russet

Was actually Idaho Russet. Made a natural edged bowl. Footed.

Dietrich

Dietrich-did you have to use any superglue for the rotton spots???? Gretch

 

[dkulze]

Actually, no. It held together in the scroll chuck quite well. Had to mount it between centers to turn the foot, chucked it up, and turned away. Really nice shavings too.

Dietrich

 

[MichaelMouse]

Is the "eye" figure as attractive as in maple?

 

[odie]

I thought I'd seen a post on here about someone's experiences with Hickory for bowl turning......can't seem to find it now.

Anyway, I bought a piece of hickory on ebay. This is the first piece of Hickory I've ever turned. Rough turned it in August. Weighed it's progress a couple of times, the last time being last week.....and all was ok at that time. Today I happened to notice a very huge split.....this bowl is now firewood! Too bad, cause it had really nice coloring on it.....if it had worked out, it would have made a beautiful bowl.

Is this the way it is with Hickory? Splits and cracks badly? If so, I don't believe I'll be buying any more Hickory.

otis oc

 

[Joe Greiner]

Odie, how dry was the hickory when you turned it? I.e., how hard was it to turn? Like concrete? Or more benign? I have a hickory stump that looks like it could make a bodacious piece: Tap root and part of the trunk with many surface feeder roots all in one plane. Maybe not quite like a Norfolk Island Pine, because I don't know what the feeder roots would look like when cut. It's been stashed for about a year, ends many feet away from the area of interest, so I haven't sealed it. I tried drilling a far end with the new Irwin auger bits, and it wasn't much fun (weak sister cordless drill).

If push came to shove, I suppose I could do the outside with a carriage-mounted router, but might have to leave the inside alone; or just shallow hollowing with the router.

Joe

 

[Gretch Flo]

Hickory

I thought I'd seen a post on here about someone's experiences with Hickory for bowl turning......can't seem to find it now.

Anyway, I bought a piece of hickory on ebay. This is the first piece of Hickory I've ever turned. Rough turned it in August. Weighed it's progress a couple of times, the last time being last week.....and all was ok at that time. Today I happened to notice a very huge split.....this bowl is now firewood! Too bad, cause it had really nice coloring on it.....if it had worked out, it would have made a beautiful bowl.

Is this the way it is with Hickory? Splits and cracks badly? If so, I don't believe I'll be buying any more Hickory.

otis oc

Otis-my experience too!!!:mad: Maybe the different hicokories are different. Mine was shag bark hickory. I haven't done much with sealing the end grain after rough turning as the few times I tried it , it still split, but maybe it was starting and I couldn't see it. Richard Raffan, at a demo, said he doen't bother with that.
Rough turned some English oak a few weeks ago. 2 large natural edged, once turned and some minor splits, and 2 large (13 inch) rough turned, alcohol emmerced. The last 2 split, one badly.Not all the way through so may be able to garishly fill. Oak is prone to this. Gretch

 

[odie]

Thanks for the responses Gretch and Joe......

Joe....To answer your questions. The bowl blank was 34% moisture content according to my moisture meter, prior to roughing. I rough turned on 8-17, first weighing was 8-22 and was 1140 grams. Second weighing was 9-9 and was 1030 grams. I usually weigh all rough turned bowls shortly after roughing, and about once each month thereafter, so it was due. After roughing, I applied a liberal coating of green wood sealer (purchased from CSUSA). I don't remember it being very difficult to rough turn, and I probably would have remember if it had been. I'm in the habit of doing the roughing with a gouge using heavy cuts.....usually takes less than a half hour, and many times this takes me not much more than 15min or so.

Gretch......do I understand correctly that Richard Raffan doesn't bother with Hickory at all? If this is the norm for it, then I can see why. There's just too many other woods that are more predictable to bother with woods that split and crack habitually!

Anyway, thanks again for your input, and may your future endeavours with this wood be more successful than my attempt!

otis oc

BTW, I guess I didn't weigh a week ago, but I did take a look at the hickory bowl about a week ago.....no cracks at that time.

 

[Charlie M]

hickory crack

If the crack showing in the photos is all there is, I would just pour some CA in it and wait to see what else develops.
Charlie M

 

[odie]

If the crack showing in the photos is all there is, I would just pour some CA in it and wait to see what else develops.
Charlie M

Well now, I'm afraid that bowl is a lost cause. The crack goes completely through, and is about 1/8th inch wide at the widest point.

My philosophy: For me, it just isn't worth trying to save bowls that are badly flawed......there are just too many others that aren't. It's time for me to take whatever knowledge I can gain by this experience, and move on to the next one!

....odie

 

[Gretch Flo]

Thanks for the responses Gretch and Joe......


Gretch......do I understand correctly that Richard Raffan doesn't bother with Hickory at all? If this is the norm for it, then I can see why. There's just too many other woods that are more predictable to bother with woods that split and crack habitually!

Odie-he didn't bother SEALING after rough turning-Gretch

 

[Gretch Flo]

calling it quits

Well now, I'm afraid that bowl is a lost cause. The crack goes completely through, and is about 1/8th inch wide at the widest point.

My philosophy: For me, it just isn't worth trying to save bowls that are badly flawed......there are just too many others that aren't. It's time for me to take whatever knowledge I can gain by this experience, and move on to the next one!


Odie-like the song says "you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them"...... Gretch

 

[MichaelMouse]

Well now, I'm afraid that bowl is a lost cause. The crack goes completely through, and is about 1/8th inch wide at the widest point.

My philosophy: For me, it just isn't worth trying to save bowls that are badly flawed......there are just too many others that aren't. It's time for me to take whatever knowledge I can gain by this experience, and move on to the next one!


Odie-like the song says "you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them"...... Gretch

Back to why some woods are lesser-used. Odie, if what you were calling a crack is the dark crescent in the heartwood, it's really what is referred to as a "wind shake." Presumption is that the wood cleaves along the early/late plane due to swaying in the wind. They are a poor candidate for glue saves, because the tend to occur most often in the heartwood, where the rings have great curvature, and are therefore under greater stress when drying.

Woods with long grain and bigg early/late differences are prone to them. Believe I posted this before, but here's a lesser-used wood fresh from the gouge showing wind shakes opening up. From my brief and unsatisfying dance with the devil last year. Wood is hemlock, which has a wonderful bark I was trying to show. No, it did not survive.

 

[dkulze]

Very pretty bowl. You can keep the bark by a good soaking on the bark line with thin CA every few cuts once you're getting thinner. I turn the outside and do one application on the outside before starting the inside. When I get down towards done, I do one on the inside too then make my final thin cut. I sand out any mess or shear scrape it very lightly.

As to wind shake, I actually kinda like it (except when it ruins clear wood on really big pieces). It can give you great contrast lines. I glue along the whole line and check it daily for reinforcement. If it opens up wide, I use fill and make it a feature.

Dietrich

 

[gentleben]

I am of opinion that you turn what you can get. I remember 40 years ago cut and stacking mesquite for burning to earn money for college. Todays trash maybe tommorrow's treasure.

 

[Carole Valentine]

John and others who have turned redbud, how in the world do you dry the stuff? I had some large redbud logs given to me (the largest I had ever seen at about 18" dia.) which I cut into blanks and sealed. Though beautiful, it moves like a snake and develops cracks everywhere! A cylinder turned round, will in a few days look like you put it though the warp function in Photoshop then skewed the perspective!

 

[Peter Hawkins]

Hi Carole

Yes I found the same problem with redbud, tried different ways of drying but no real standard for success, some bowls turned had to have a pretty thick wall thickness, and it still moved. I did find that it turns and retains its form better in a hollow vessel shape like a ball or flattened globe, did the outside first shaped and sanded to 600, then applied two very liberal coats of salad bowl finish straight away it soaks it straight in, and while still wet wet sanded with 1200 then after about a day started hollowing out, I have done this with several globes of redbud some I haven't hollowed out, they have layed in the shop for some 2 months, they have been in top condition, no cracks or splits anywhere. I found the same with texas black willow, same sort of structure.
Hope this may of been some help, I am only just learning too, especially about your american woods, and of course turning.

regards peter

 

[Malcolm Smith]

While there are a few wood that are interesting where I live, I turn mostly tropical hardwoods, especially pink ivory, ebony and African blackwood. There are a few I would like to turn more of, putumuju is one, but have trouble getting them. I don't sell my work so I'm able to do this. In addition to the cost of these woods, the turning, sanding and finishing is very slow going, This is especially true with the pink ivory which is extremely dense heavy wood. Another point with these woods, at least to me, is they are particularly suitable for very perfected simple forms.

Malcolm Smith.