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Making a bedan tool and scrapers?

John Torchick

John Torchick

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Not sure if this is the correct forum section but here goes. Got three pieces of HSS a while back. Discovered them hiding on the top shelf in the shop. One is going to be a bedan tool. I was thinking the other two could be ground to RH and LH scrapers similar to those used for bowl interiors. I noted that the WC catalogue has scrapers for bowls. Thought I could duplicate them with the square stock. Your thoughts?
 
image.jpeg image.jpeg You didn't mention what size your HSS blanks are. I've made several bedans and scrapers. The one pictured is 8x8mm. I use a brass Pex adaptor with the small end cut off. Not difficult at all.
 
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I've never understood the RH/LH scraper pair. Can someone explain what one would do with the scraper with the ground part opposite the inside curve of the bowl?
 
Some lathes' spindles can turn clockwise. It's much easier to see the tool tip when cutting on the backside. Scrapers can be used on the outside of a bowl as well or either left or right handed on spindle work.
 
The right and left hand scrapers Ray Key designed were for the outside only. John Jordan's scraper is a similar design but only uses one blade that you pull out and flip in the handle. It's my favorite tool for cleaning up tool markets and fine tuning the outside shape.
 
Dean Center said:
I've never understood the RH/LH scraper pair. Can someone explain what one would do with the scraper with the ground part opposite the inside curve of the bowl?
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Like John said

Often shaped a bit like a skew
Used outside on hollow form one for each side of the high spot
 
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The inside and outside scrapers are old school from the days before chucks. You mounted the bowl on a face plate or waste block and face plate and turned the entire bowl from that mount, The swept back to the right side of the scraper were for turning the outside of the bowl. both scraping and shear scraping. The swept back to the left were for scraping and shear scraping out the inside of the bowl. The outside scraper has become kind of obsolete since we generally turn the outside of the bowl first, then reverse and remount it, then turn out the inside. A round nose scraper will do both jobs just fine. I do use more of a spear point type scraper for shear scraping the outside of the bowl if I need to touch it up after reversing. Since it has a right and left side bevel and burr, it can go either direction.

robo hippy
 
Another use for the outside scraper is for segmented bowl turning. The bowl is mounted by the base to start with and never taken off until finished. You turn the outside first and then the inside. Cleaning up any tool marks on the outside can be done with a right sided scraper. It's just another specialty tool that has limited uses.
 
robo hippy said:
The inside and outside scrapers are old school from the days before chucks.
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Old school seams like an odd comment especially the part about "the days before chucks" and then the comment by RDE It's just another specialty tool that has limited uses. could it be that you never learned how to put the technique to it's full potential.
 
Well, I wouldn't say that I didn't learn to use it to its potential. More of a thing about not having a need to use it that way. A round nose scraper can be used for both inside and outside, shear scraping as well. Check out my 'Scary Scrapers' video. Maybe my shear scraping video as well.

robo hippy
 
I think of it as being 'retro' rather than old school. Only been turning 20+ years, so not old enough to be old school..... Well, maybe...

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
I think of it as being 'retro' rather than old school. Only been turning 20+ years, so not old enough to be old school..... Well, maybe...

robo hippy
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Are you trying to claim that I am an old fa*t just because I entered a turned and carved chess set in the 1961 MN state fair.
By the way I also watched parts of your shear scraping video, there was a mention in there about the skew shaped shear scrapers being OK to use on the heal but they could get slapped down to the tool rest if used on the point. I have never had that problem but then I use a light touch.
 
Some do shear scrape with the nose of a swept back type of scraper. I have heard the claim that it 'won't' catch. I never work with a tool using the off center of above center method. Not a chance I will take. Maybe I am being overly cautious here, but I would rather err on the side of caution. I have probably made every mistake possible with the lathe. I have been surprised before though...

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Some do shear scrape with the nose of a swept back type of scraper. I have heard the claim that it 'won't' catch. I never work with a tool using the off center of above center method. Not a chance I will take. Maybe I am being overly cautious here, but I would rather err on the side of caution. I have probably made every mistake possible with the lathe. I have been surprised before though...

robo hippy
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I guess I don't know what a swept back type scraper is or what they would be good for. The shear scrapers I have used for the last 30 years have an angle of about 75 degrees similar to a skew but ground only on one side with the bur formed toward the ground side and made in left and right hand styles. This style is used on the outside of convex surfaces cutting down hill with the flat of the tool held at about 45 degrees to the tool rest so a very small area of the cutting edge is in contact with the work piece but it is enough to bridge low spots and take off the highs. The main reason to use the area near the long point or short point is the fact that the bur wears out fast so you can gain more use by moving the cutting area off of the center.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
I guess I don't know what a swept back type scraper is or what they would be good for. The shear scrapers I have used for the last 30 years have an angle of about 75 degrees similar to a skew but ground only on one side with the bur f/QUOTE]


Don not sure But I think Reed is talking about the kind of scraper Mahoney uses. It is pointed with the sides sweeping back kind of like a clothes iron. It is used as a shear scraper and held at a shear angle on the tool rest. We had the demo by Mike last night and that is the only reason I though of this.
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This discussion has been going on since 2004 if the dates are accurate. Some respondents quote their years of turning as maybe giving credence to their thoughts. I have been turning since 1956, but don't claim to know more than anyone else. I use scrapers which could be called RH and LH, with half the end curved and the other half ground straight across. I sheer scrape with them where the shape is most useful. I don't get tear-out, so something must be OK.
 
Back about 6 to 8 years ago when the idea of shear scraping with the swept back wings of a gouge was the latest craze we had Mike M for a demo at our club. Mike demoed many of his excellent techniques gained from his production turning and then did the gouge shear scrap. I asked him why he didn't use the burred scraper RH LH method and his reply was that it was a superior method but is difficult to teach. I don't know what method he is now using or how it is used, but I would be interested to watch a video if available.
 
Don Wattenhofer said:
Back about 6 to 8 years ago when the idea of shear scraping with the swept back wings of a gouge was the latest craze we had Mike M for a demo at our club. Mike demoed many of his excellent techniques gained from his production turning and then did the gouge shear scrap. I asked him why he didn't use the burred scraper RH LH method and his reply was that it was a superior method but is difficult to teach. I don't know what method he is now using or how it is used, but I would be interested to watch a video if available.
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Mike uses shear scrap but also a scraper shaped like the point of a clothes iron. This is used at a angle to get the shear scrape
 
First spear point scraper I saw was a Richard Raffen design, so point in the center, and swept back 2 or more inches to each side. In the video the AAW showed on their news letters, Mikes was more of a 45 degree sweep to the sides rather than going back so much farther. He does have a signature one that he sells, I think I saw one anyway, and it is a Carter and Son product. Can't understand why he thinks it is more difficult to teach shear scraping with a scraper than with a gouge, but I do use scrapers WAAAAYYY more than he does. I show all my shear scrapers in my shear scraping video. The kind of swept back one that I use for hogging out bowls is not swept back very far, maybe an inch. I used to have some that were swept back a couple of inches so I could rough out with the nose, and then shear scrape with a long wing which had a fresh edge. Problem was that the farther the swept back grind went, the more the burr tended to catch on the tool rest. There is such a thing as being swept back too far...

robo hippy
 
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