Making a Bowl

[John King]

Today my 7 year old granddaughter came into the shop and said "I want to make a bowl." I was thrilled that she wanted to make a bowl, but did not know how to respond. Woodturning is way too dangerous for a 7 year old. I tried to think of some way to "make a bowl" that would be safe. I came up blank.

So, here's the question: Has anyone had the opportunity to "make a bowl" with a young child? If yes, what did you do?

Look forward to hearing from you. - John

 

[Odie]

Howdy John....

Right now, my son has a small bowl that is drying. It's only about 4" in diameter and 2" thick. This is my 13yr old's project.....it will be a gift for his mother. It's hard to say just when the right age for a first try would be. Some kids are better equipped at an early age to handle it than others. I waited until my son showed some interest, before I even thought about it.

So far, I've stood behind him with my arms around both his sides. We both held the tools together. When I saw that he was understanding how to bring the tool to cut.....I let him take over. He's used both gouges and scrapers in this manner. There has been a few minor "catches", but nothing serious. You know as well as I do that wood turning can be a dangerous practice, but all the practical instruction in the world won't come close to the knowledge that's gained by "hands on" experience. Give your daughter all the theory you can.....but, in the end, they will have to learn to "fly" on their own.

He is enjoying the experience very much.....and I'm very proud of him. He's far from being able to do anything without my direct supervision.....but, it'll come! Until that time comes, I will watch like a hawk!

Give her something small and easy to cut for the first time.

good luck!

odie

 

[Jim Keenan]

My just turned 8 grandson was visiting last week. I built him a platform so he could comfortably reach the lathe. The two of us turned and roughed a bowl while my hands covered and guided his hands. I did the inside of the bowl and made the finishing cuts. He then sanded through the grits the outside and the I did the inside. He applied sealer and the wax. When it was all finished, we burned our names and the date on the bottom.
I suspect he will have fonder memories of that bowl we did together rather than one he would do later all by himself.
Go for it!

Today my 7 year old granddaughter came into the shop and said "I want to make a bowl." I was thrilled that she wanted to make a bowl, but did not know how to respond. Woodturning is way too dangerous for a 7 year old. I tried to think of some way to "make a bowl" that would be safe. I came up blank.

So, here's the question: Has anyone had the opportunity to "make a bowl" with a young child? If yes, what did you do?

Look forward to hearing from you. - John

 

[hockenbery]

Jon,

A great first project for kids is a Bonnie Klein style spinning top.

Check out the projects on the youth turning. Most have tips on teaching kids.

http://www.woodturner.org/community/youth/

All kids develop at different rates. A gross generality is the younger kids lack the coordination and range of motion to hollow a bowl ridding the bevel from rim to bottom. IMHO A bowl is tough first project for kids of any any 8, 40 or 80.

1. In my opinion any child that can slice tomatoes unattended has matured enough to turn wood. We have had several 8 year olds in our classes who did quite well.

2. choose projects to be success oriented
any top turned by a kid will spin for a while.

3. let the kid do the turning. Show them a small step. Let them do it.
I will help them get the bevel ridding either by putting a finger on tool above the tool rest or a slight twist with a couple of fingers on the end of the handle. This does not change the child's grip. then after a pass or two they usually develop a feel for the bevel.

4. give encouragement. especillay praise nice shavings.

5. for children too young to do the turning go for collaborative projects.
let them put the colors on a top. Let them paint on a bowl. make a stool that they can assemble and paint. Jim described a collaboration that worked well


Happy Turning,
Al

 

[Peter Skellenger]

I showed a 10 yr old Harry Potter fan how to turn a cpl weeks ago by making a Potteresque wand. I took the spindle to round and did the finishing details, etc... but he did a good bit of work himself by using the spindle roughing gouge. It was fun to do this and watch him! No end grain to deal with is nice... not a whole lot can go wrong here. He does not live around me and apparently has yet to put the wand down... takes it everywhere! Easy intro to turning. I don't know if I would show him how to turn a bowl just yet. That first catch might be a little scary! Good luck!

 

[robo hippy]

My daughter, who was 9 at the time wanted to turn a bowl (which is about 80% of what I turn). I got a small piece of myrtle, about 1 1/2 high by 4 wide, and we turned a bowl. I set the speed down, and had my hands on for almost all of the cutting. We used scrapers and a gouge for finish cuts. She also had a milk crate to stand on. We did two bowls which she sanded and finished. She sold one the first week end it was on the shelves, and she promptly spent the money. She hasn't turned anything since then.
robo hippy

 

[waltben]

If you're up to it, I think teaching a young person how to turn is really the easiest. They listen - adults don't seem to do that very well. I haven't taught anyone quite that young, but as captjim said, if you guide their hands and do the harder stuff yourself, you can't go wrong.

 

[waltben]

Forgot to add - my oldest wanted to be a sax player. After several years of doing very well (she could play Hayden flute music on an alto sax at 12!), I was told I'd have to get her a professional grade (Selmer, no less) which cost more than any car I owned at the time. Two and a half years later she put it down and totally quit. You sometimes never can tell what a growning kid will do.

 

[Rob Wallace]

Get her started on spindles first - then move to a bowl.

Hello John!

Great to hear that you have a granddaughter who has a desire to turn something! One of my favorite experiences was the night we were watching the television and my son (then age 8) asked if we could just do something fun and go down to the shop and turn something..... He had been turning spindles for at least 6 months. We spent the next 2.5 hours doing nothing but turning - he on the mini-lathe and me on the Jet 1642.....(albeit with lots of stops and starts!)

Today my 7 year old granddaughter came into the shop and said "I want to make a bowl." I was thrilled that she wanted to make a bowl, but did not know how to respond. Woodturning is way too dangerous for a 7 year old. I tried to think of some way to "make a bowl" that would be safe. I came up blank.

I don't agree that woodturning is way too dangerous, but I would not start her on a bowl. I started my son about age 7 on a mini-lathe, simply turning spindles of ripped-down 2x4 scraps using a roughing gouge to round, and then using Sorby's Spindle Master (3/4") to shape the spindle any way he wanted. We had a rule that his spindle couldn't get any narrower than the thickness of his thumb, and that he couldn't come more than 2 fingers width to the ends. Other than that, I let him have at it. He went through lots of scrap lumber, but gained confidence to turn on his own (as long as I set up the piece between centers - he has since learned how to do this on his own) - BTW, he's 10 years old now. When we do our Club's turning demonstrations at a local Shopping Mall each year, for the past two years he really enjoys turning for onlookers (while standing on a platform wearing one of my old shirts as a smock with a full "bubble" face shield" - his usual turning garb) who are somewhat astonished that this "little kid" is cranking out spindles and tops.

So, here's the question: Has anyone had the opportunity to "make a bowl" with a young child? If yes, what did you do?

Look forward to hearing from you. - John

The previous year (2005) I had won the "Turned Items" Class in the Woodworking Division for Competitive Events at the Iowa State Fair. He also wanted to try to turn a bowl for the fair in 2006 (at age 9), so we practiced using some poplar rounds on a faceplate until he got the hang of it, initially starting with me holding the tool over his hands holding the tool, mostly to develop body position, tool approach and cutting motions, and safety. After 3 or 4 "starter" bowls (fortunately no blow-ups, cut-throughs, or funnels), he wanted to make a "real" bowl so we mounted a piece of redheart on a wasteblock using a 3" faceplate. He turned the bowl while I supervised, and then sanded it (to death!); we then parted it off and sanded the bottom flat before finishing with spray lacquer. He put it into the Youth Woodworking competition at the Iowa State Fair last year, and won first prize. I think I was prouder of this than he was! The point of this story is that as long as they are working safely, and under good supervision, getting kids started early is a great thing for both the kid and the teacher!

The image below is a photo of my son turning his State Fair Bowl in the summer of 2006. He has turned a few things since then, and wants to continue learning to "make deeper bowls". We'll see how that goes....

Get some scrap stock for spindles and start her with the basics, and let her progress at her own pace. She'll be at the "bowl stage" before you know it!

Good luck, turn safely, and HAVE FUN!

Rob Wallace

 

[Peter Skellenger]

That is an awesome story Rob!! How cool to have a kid that when sitting in front of the TV wants to go "do something fun" and to have a dad that does fun stuff and takes the time to show him how! Cool!

The first thing I ever turned and ended up sparking my interest in turning, now an addiction, was a set of knitting needles. This is cool project for any kid (or adult, I was 27) to do and is simple spindle turning. Double pointed needles are VERY easy because there is no "end"... both ends are tapered points. A cool thing about these is they have to be exactly the correct size to within 0.50mm. There is a gauge for sizing knitting needles at any knitting store or even at Wal-Mart or similar stores in the crafty type areas of the store. It's a go/no go gauge really.A youngster can learn how to make perfectly straight and uniform spindles and then they have to reproduce the same size for mating needle(s). Rather than having them taper the ends, you can "help" at this point OR you can just use a pencil sharpener! A kid could actually make pretty coin selling these! Big needles are popular these days and are big enough to reduce vibration. By big I am thinking size 15 (I think that is 10mm). Awesome gifts for grandma's and the like too!

 

[MichaelMouse]

If you're up to it, I think teaching a young person how to turn is really the easiest. They listen - adults don't seem to do that very well. I haven't taught anyone quite that young, but as captjim said, if you guide their hands and do the harder stuff yourself, you can't go wrong.

Got that right. It's the second or third piece where you have to start watching. A little learning can lead them into dangerous things. Never worked with younger than 6th-graders, but they were great. High School types, especially the big athletes, have a tendency to try and muscle things around. Often had to re-teach after they stuffed the tool so hard they got a dismount. Of course the old man kept the 60 degree center in for spindle work rather than the cup, so as to teach a bit of the lesson even when I was helping elsewhere.

Different on the lathe than with flat work. 5-foot nothin' and 90 lbs sweats and grunts at handplaning, even if she's a senior, but has no problem finessing cuts on the lathe. Never gave the smaller kids anything bigger than a block plane.

 

[Peter Skellenger]

"dismount" is sure a nice way to put it... I like that! Interesting what you say here MM. When i think about my own turning experience, I had a few "dismounts" after I gained a little confidence. The first cpl bowls were very small and turned out fine. After 2-3 good ones, the dismounts started. Too much confidence, dwindling respect for the danger of the lathe, and being in too much of a hurry led to more and more frusturation, dismounts, and swearing! I had to remember I had no idea what i was doing and seeing how fast those dismounts come off the lathe when they are not yet round.... back to the Raffan and Robert Chapman books! I figured it out but would have to say I am pretty lucky I didn't get hurt too badly!

 

[Bill Turpin]

Start with spindles

The Carolina Mountain Woodturners participated in Wood Day at the Folk Art Center in Asheville, NC on 8-11. Six Jet mini lathes were kept humming by 98 newbie turners making honey dippers. The youngest kid was five and the oldest was 81. Spindle turning teaches skills and respect without a whole lot of danger.

I started my grandson turning at age ten. He owns HIS lathe that he won at Louisville. He now turns at fourteen without adult supervision.

Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

 

[Ruth Niles]

Thanks for all the great info here, guys. My two grandsons, Jack 10 and Sam 8, wanted to try turning. I had them turn tops, helping like some of you said holding their hands.

Are you using green wood? If dry, is there any species easier to turn? I do a lot of spindle work for antique dealers and know I don't want them using OAK (I hate dried oak!) or hard maple.

Thanks,
Ruth

 

[hockenbery]

Kids are great most of the time

two eleven year old students came to the forth class and reported visiting one of their grandfathers and using his lathe.
They reported "boy are his tools dull"


MM REMINDED ME OF A 16 YEAR OLD WE HAD.

Kid was using a parting tool and ran it in deeply with no relief cut.
When it bound up the kid tried to pull it out the handle came free of the tool and the tool was thrown like a knife. fortunately the lathes were positioned with no one in the line of fire. When I asked the kid what happened and why he hadn,t made a relief cut. He said he "wanted to see what would happen"....

happy turning,
Al

 

[Rob Wallace]

What worked for me....

Are you using green wood? If dry, is there any species easier to turn? I do a lot of spindle work for antique dealers and know I don't want them using OAK (I hate dried oak!) or hard maple.

Thanks,
Ruth

Hi Ruth!

Obviously, ripped 2x4 scraps are dry for learning to turn spindles (you could also substitute 2x2 poplar if you don't work with dimensional stuff). Low-end 2x4 stock is really cheap at big box home improvement stores, so buying a few budget sticks to use for spindle lessons won't break the bank. Look for the tightest grain SPF lumber you can find. The surface finish after turning won't be great, even with sharp tools, but the point is for the kids to learn to cut properly, including cutting 'downhill', roughing to a cylinder, making beads and coves, parting, etc. Spindle roughing gouges and the Spindlemaster tool are fairly safe at any level of experience....I'd recommend starting with these. Then move to spindle gouges and scrapers. (Leave the skew 'till later!)

We haven't worked with green blanks on the mini-lathe yet for my son to rough bowls and then have to take time to let them dry (In my opinion, there's not enough immediate gratification for kids when using green stock - using dry stock means that they can finish turning and move on to the sanding/finishing phases right away....). I think it's important that they have a product of their work to take away (and show other people!) immediately following the turning session - this is another reason why tops and honey dippers work well as beginning projects.

For practice bowls, I used poplar for a number of reasons - it's fairly inexpensive, cuts well, you can get it in 8/4 ad 12/4 thicknesses, it sands and finishes well, and there are usually some subtle grain features that work OK (as to appearance) regardless of what the shape of the bowl turns out to be. Stay away from oak, maple, ash, and other really hard woods. I can tell you that walnut and cherry aren't too bad to turn when dry, although they're a bit expensive (especially at 8/4 or 12/4!) when used for practice bowls! For the first few practice bowls on the mini-lathe, we used a 3" faceplate and sheet metal screws with 3" thick poplar blanks (usually 5-7 inches diameter). This also makes the kids think about NOT turning too deep to hit the screws, and forces them to visualize bottom thickness and where the base has to be - all teaching/learning opportunities.

The downside of using dry wood is that things get a bit warm. To solve this, we set up a rule that as soon as the tool or shavings get your hands too hot, stop turning for a minute and shut down the lathe, clean off the lathe bed, tool rest, etc., look at what you've done, and see where you need to make the next cuts. This exercise builds some patience and an idea that your turnings should be planned and not "spontaneous"; usually the tool, etc. had cooled down enough during these 'clean and think' breaks for him to continue.

Hope this helps a bit!

Rob Wallace

BTW - I recently spent 5 days vacationing "in your backyard" (visiting in-laws) earlier this month catching bass, perch, and BIG bluegills in some of your local water holes (Peck's Pond and a few lakes at Hemlock Farms) - I really do miss the northeast, especially when I'm holding a fishing rod!

 

[hockenbery]

Hi Ruth,

We've had a few hundred kids through our 5 day classes in groups of 5-6.

1..We use some partly dry wood (doesn't throw water) for warm-up
We have the kids turn a scrap piece when we teach them techniques they will use on the project for the day.

2. We use dry hardwood (mostly soft maple, cherry, walnut) for the projects which are spindle work and boxes mounted spindle orientation.

3. An example of warmup. For a bonnie Klein style top. We have the kids round the square to cylinder between centers with a spindle roughing gouge. then with spindle gouge turn a cove in the center. we have the widen the cove until they have a steep cove on each with a cylinder about the size of pencil in the middle. The cove on the left side is like the point of the top. the cove on the right side is like the upper part of the top and the cylinder in the middle is like the handle.

happy Turning,
Al

 

[Frank Kobilsek]

Pens

I keep a bag full of cheap slim line kit blanks, drilled, glued and end milled ready from scrap wood such as maple, cherry and walnut. When the nieghbor kids want to try turning I let them make a pen. They use a 3/4 roughing gouge and bang it out. I live in a rural nieghborhood, big lots and lots of kids of all ages. On most Saturdays I am the only adult male in the neighborhood, all the Dad's are on the golf course, thier kids come to see what Mr. Kobilsek is working on. Not having been blessed with my own kids they are welcome any time. The only time it is a problem is when I am setting up to do something small, say bottlestoppers, and one of the regulars Mark (about 10) shows up and wants to see a big piece spin. Being easily distracted I find a log and chuck up a chunk to fill the lathe. Mark then grabs the plastic garbage can and tries to catch the stream of big wet chips as they shoot across the garage. My wife has a picture of this on the fridge. Too much fun.

Frank

 

[Ruth Niles]

Thanks, Al and Rob, I suspected what you said, just wanted reinforced assurance.

Frank, that does sound like you are having fun with the kids. Kids are my favorite people! Of course, with 4 married kids, 9 grandkids and one great-grandkid, I guess they would be.

Ruth