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My first and only spindle gouge

It is a usable profile. One that might be advantageous as you get a feel for the tool
It looks like about a 45 degree bevel.

I prefer a 30 degree bevel
1. Tool get sharper a 30than 45
2. 30 cut cleaner and tighter corners than a 45
3. :) 30 makes you pay attention to the bevel contact more than 45

The 45will be less grabby. if you get off the bevel slightly, you have a reasonable chance of not having the tool skate back. With a 30 degree bevel the tool is going to skate if the cutting edge touches the wood without bevel contact.
 
hockenbery said:
It is a usable profile. One that might be advantageous as you get a feel for the tool
It looks like about a 45 degree bevel.

I prefer a 30 degree bevel
1. Tool get sharper a 30than 45
2. 30 cut cleaner and tighter corners than a 45
3. :) 30 makes you pay attention to the bevel contact more than 45

The 45will be less grabby. if you get off the bevel slightly, you have a reasonable chance of not having the tool skate back. With a 30 degree bevel the tool is going to skate if the cutting edge touches the wood without bevel contact.
Click to expand...
Could you post a pic of your profile , pls.
 
Actually, the nose angle as shipped is 40 degrees. I generally maintain that angle but grind a secondary bevel just a tad more acute.
 
Ditto what Dennis does except that I grind mine using the Wolverine jig so it has wings. I use the same settings as my bowl gouge setting on the Wolverine and V arm but I put a block in the V arm about an inch long. this moves the wolverine jig forward and the spindle gouge up the stone producing a bevel that is around 40 degrees.
 
I would think the grind angle would be the preference of the individual turner. Plus, having different angles for a spindle or bowl gouge would dictate different applications.
 
What I find is that newer turners have more trouble with acute grinds. 40 or 45 seems to work well. 35 not bad and is good for reaching into smaller details although when I need that I use the toe of the skew. Bowl gouges and spindle gouges do have different applications. Although you can do a lot of the same cuts with a bowl gouge or spindle gouge there are a lot that they don't do equally. A spindle gouge is much better for coves, especially smaller coves. You can do it with a bowl gouge but the spindle gouge is better. Turning beads is much better with a spindle gouge. Using the spindle gouge to center drill into boxes and hollow boxes is easier than using the bowl gouge. A bowl gouge is far better for removing large amounts of wood and the wings on a swept back grind are a lot easier to use than the shorter wings on a spindle gouge.
 
35° can be pretty aggressive for a newer turner. I myself use it with the grind that Doug puts on it and do take the wings back a little more and also use a secondary grind on the heel.
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Actually, the nose angle as shipped is 40 degrees. I generally maintain that angle but grind a secondary bevel just a tad more acute.
Click to expand...

I did not mention that while this is my go-to spindle gouge, I have another ground to about 30 degrees with long wings for special occasions. Both are ground using the Vari-grind jig.
 
john lucas said:
Ditto what Dennis does except that I grind mine using the Wolverine jig so it has wings. I use the same settings as my bowl gouge setting on the Wolverine and V arm but I put a block in the V arm about an inch long. this moves the wolverine jig forward and the spindle gouge up the stone producing a bevel that is around 40 degrees.
Click to expand...
I use the same settings for bowl & spindle gouges as John does. Except instead of putting a block in the
"V" pocket I have TWO Varigrind Jigs.....after all,... "He who dies with the most tools.....WINS"! :D
 
Bill I actually do 3 grinds on my tools now. I have a main bevel that's really small. Then a secondary bevel that is created by moving the Wolverine jig all the way forward in the V arm, then I free hand grind the sharp edge off the heel of the bevel. I like the small main bevel. it works better when turning coves and the inside of bowls. It gives me more feel on how the tool is cutting.
 
I'm not sure how many spindle gouges I have. At least 6-8. I think I have them ground with a little steeper angle than the Thompson..
I'd try out that gouge with the grind it comes with. If you like the way it cuts, you're good to go, and there's no sense in grinding away good steel.
If you don't like it, then its time to go to the grinder.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
View attachment 24481 View attachment 24482
okay , so I got a 3/8 Thompson spindle gouge. Is it okay to use this profile straight out of the package , or should I change profile and angle for my one and only spindle gouge.
Click to expand...
Okay so my spindle gouge does not have the pointy front end like the one I used at a course. The Thompson one has a wide shovel front end. 40' out of package. Is it hard to get a more pointed front or do I have to change the angle also. Doesn't perform like one in class. I find its hard to roll a bead as I was use to other one and it seems like it does not turn fast when doing a bead if that makes sense.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Okay so my spindle gouge does not have the pointy front end like the one I used at a course. The Thompson one has a wide shovel front end. 40' out of package. Is it hard to get a more pointed front or do I have to change the angle also. Doesn't perform like one in class. I find its hard to roll a bead as I was use to other one and it seems like it does not turn fast when doing a bead if that makes sense.
Click to expand...

The shape is determined to a great extent upon the amount of time spent grinding on the wings. If you are using a Varigrind jig and Wolverine fixture, you can try the following as a starting point:
  • Tool protruding through the Varigrind about 2½"
  • Set the Varigrind leg at mid position (approximately 45°)
  • Set the Wolverine arm to get the desired nose angle (30° to 45° typically
Below are pictures of my three spindle gouges. The one on the left is ⅜" diameter and the other two are ¼" diameter. I use the Tormek gouge jig which is similar in function to the Varigrind. The jig settings for the spindle gouge on the left is as follows: protrusion of 2½", jig setting is 5 (equivalent to Varigrind leg angle of about 45°), and nose angle is 45°. For the other two spindle gouges, the protrusion is 55 mm (about 2⅛"), jig setting is 2 (about 20°), and nose angle is 30°.

TOP VIEW
image.jpeg

SIDE VIEW

image.jpeg

These illustrate that while the jig controls the angle of the steel to the grindstone, the overall shape is determined by how you apply the steel to the grindstone.. The jig settings and nose angle are the same for the center and right hand gouges, but the nose profiles and length of the wings are considerably different.

If we compare the left hand and right hand gouges, we see that they both have long wings even though the nose angles are different and the jig leg angles are different. However, the difference in leg angle of the jig results in a more acute angle of the wings on the right hand gouge.

When sharpening it is important to use featherlight pressure and always keep the tool rotating so that you don't grind a flat spot. When rough shaping you can use a bit more pressure.
 
That is so what they looked like . Thanks so much. I'm scared to change grind on new gouge in case I make it unusable. But I'm going to give it a go. So your sides are not straight just a slight arch?
 
You won't make it unusable. It's not as difficult as it may seem. With the tool in the Varigrind jig, start by grinding the nose to the desired angle. Then start working your way back on each side of the nose. You don't want to make the nose too pointed or it will be difficult to use without getting run backs. A gentle curve in the wing profile makes it less likely that the whole wing will grab. Just as with a bowl gouge, work on getting a nice rounded transition from the nose to the wings and make both wings symmetrical.
 
image.jpg image.jpg
Bill Boehme said:
You won't make it unusable. It's not as difficult as it may seem. With the tool in the Varigrind jig, start by grinding the nose to the desired angle. Then start working your way back on each side of the nose. You don't want to make the nose too pointed or it will be difficult to use without getting run backs. A gentle curve in the wing profile makes it less likely that the whole wing will grab. Just as with a bowl gouge, work on getting a nice rounded transition from the nose to the wings and make both wings symmetrical.
Click to expand...
Bill, could you post a pic of your detail spindle gouge, I'm going to try and grind my detail gouge first as it is also profile straight outta package and I think it would be better being more pointy! And your method of sharpening on the oneway system. I need a repeatable method of sharpening it. Pls and thanks.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
View attachment 24547 View attachment 24546
Bill, could you post a pic of your detail spindle gouge, I'm going to try and grind my detail gouge first as it is also profile straight outta package and I think it would be better being more pointy! And your method of sharpening on the oneway system. I need a repeatable method of sharpening it. Pls and thanks.
Click to expand...

I'll see if I can find Varigrind settings that match what I get when using my Tormek. It may be a couple hours before I get around to it.
 
OK, here are some pictures of my ½" detail gouge. The settings for my Tormek jig are α =40°, JS = 2, and P = 55 mm. After experimenting with various settings, I was able to get an almost perfect match on my 8" dry grinder by setting the Varigrind leg to third notch as shown in the photo below and a protrusion of 2½". Setting the nose angle to 40° will require different tools than I use for the Tormek.

I decided to use these Varigrind settings to sharpen the detail gouge on the dry grinder and the results were practically identical to the Tormek, ignoring bevel smoothness.

Varigrind leg angle and tool protrusion:

image.jpeg


Top view of detail gouge grind. You can control how rounded or pointed to make it. Initially, it was more pointed, but I think this looks better. Of course this is all very subjective. Use a very featherlight touch as it doesn't take much to make a big change in the shape.

image.jpeg


Side view with some of the heel ground away. I'm used to the polished bevel that the Tormek produces so this dry grinder bevel looks like Fresno to me.

image.jpeg
 
Thank you so much! I don't think you guys realize how much you help people like me. I love woodturning but living 3 hours from Calgary and 5 1/2 hours the other direction from kelowna the closest woodturning clubs. For me to take a one day class it's a huge drive , a hotel and meals also. The time and effort you people take to help us is priceless. These things would take forever to find on the computer and then like videos you don't know if you are getting good information. It gets really frustrating when you get stuck, or your in a rut and there is no where to turn.

Since I've been on here, everyone included, the information I've received has helped me immensely . It's like having a bunch of teachers available when you need them.

Thank you Bill again, and everyone else who has helped me in the past and the future.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
View attachment 24602 View attachment 24603
Okay took me a while to get up the courage. Used your settings.
Click to expand...

Looks good Glenn. A further hint for the future when your single gouge wears down to the point where there is insufficient flat surface on the top to fit securely in the Vari-Grind jig. Just reduce the protrusion to a smaller value where the jig just remains clear of the grinding wheel during the swing, and re-adjust the v-arm position to get the desired nose angle. Small changes of protrusion, when compensated by changes of v-arm position, have negligible effect on the grind obtained. I have purposely ground off the corners of my jig to allow me to squeeze the last bit of use from my gouges.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Thank you, Glenn. Receiving such nice compliments made my day for sure. Woodturners are a helpful sharing bunch and that's one of the things that makes it such a rewarding activity.
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I can not believe the difference. Stuck my detail gouge in same setting as it had a unusable so sharp edge (30 deg ) it got catches before I touched the wood. I actually did a round top on my first pepper mill ever. And I started sanding with 400 grit. Will post pic after insert mechanism.
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
Looks good Glenn. A further hint for the future when your single gouge wears down to the point where there is insufficient flat surface on the top to fit securely in the Vari-Grind jig. Just reduce the protrusion to a smaller value where the jig just remains clear of the grinding wheel during the swing, and re-adjust the v-arm position to get the desired nose angle. Small changes of protrusion, when compensated by changes of v-arm position, have negligible effect on the grind obtained. I have purposely ground off the corners of my jig to allow me to squeeze the last bit of use from my gouges.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dennis . You guys help sooo much. I'm not afraid to try or don't second guess info on here. Just jump in and try. Well it might take a week first as scared to try. Haha.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Does anyone use a 40/40 grind on bowl gouge. And would it be worth while changing one of mine to those angles?
Click to expand...

I haven't yet figured out what it is supposed to look like and what makes it so great. I think that I have six or seven different grinds on my bowl gouges and except for certain situations it doesn't make a great deal of difference what grind is on the one that I am using.
 
Glenn Lefley said:
Does anyone use a 40/40 grind on bowl gouge. And would it be worth while changing one of mine to those angles?
Click to expand...

Quite a few folks use the 40/40 as their primary grind.
It is an individual preference and relates to what you turn.
Also the flute of your gouge will determine what grinds it will take well.

Most bowl turners today use a grind similar to the Ellsworth or the O’Neil or Jordan grind.
The Michelson grind is excellent for bowls also.
IMHO the Ellsworth is the best tool for natural edge bowls.

You would find the 40/40 useful for things like hollowing a spherical bowl under the rim where a 50 or 60 degree bevel tool cannot ride the bevel but a 40 degree tool can.
 
My primary bowl gouge is a Crown PM with a 40/40 grind ( done on my Tormek).I find that it does an excellent job for me but I think a lot of what determines a proper grind is what you are accustomed to using. Practice makes perfect - or at least better.
 
I have a Henry Taylor tool that I ground to 40/40. I really only use it when my normal thompson gouge that I have ground to sort of an Ellsworth grind won't do the job. the 40/40 with that sharper edge cuts cleaner and is handy for platters, shallow bowls, and sometimes my hand mirrors. I like using the wings too much on my Thompson gouge so the 40/40 doesn't work for me for most work.
 
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