new/upgrade full-size lathe

[Ted Sherman]

I'm new to the forum and need some advice/input. Brief background: I took a bowl turning course at the local Woodcraft in 1/2017, and got the bug, then bought an old Jet 1236 the next year. I used it only a couple times then had a couple surgeries (knees and shoulders) and had to stop. My Dad died end of last year, and my split of the pot is enough to enable me essentially to get what I want. I want to be able to do bowls, hollow forms, and spindles/pens/ornaments/etc. My shop is not air conditioned and being in middle Tennessee humidity is an issue (so rust is an issue. I've got fans running 24/7 in the shop to keep the air moving to minimize rust on my hand tools [planes, saws, spokeshaves, etc.]). I've got 220 w/in 30 ft of where the lathe will go.

So, what I'm considering, and I'd like to hear pros/cons for each, are a Robust American Beauty or Powermatic 4224b or Robust Sweet 16 or PM 3020c (or who would recommend a Vicmarc?). The lag time on delivery for a Robust is about 4 months (16 weeks). Two things I really like about the Robust is the made in USA and the 7 year head-to-tail warranty. I'm especially interested in hearing from anyone who went from a PM to a Robust or the other way around--and why. Also, I'm in no rush or hurry. I want to get the best bang for the buck (no more than $10k for the lathe), and I want to cry only once. Being nearly 60, this will be the last lathe I buy.

 

[Steve Nix]

If you got the coins, go for the AB, I love mine. Great machine.

 

[Hugh]

Oneway 2436 with stainless steel bed.
Get the short extension for the outboard turning.....with an extra banjo.
I bought one about 20 years ago. No problems yet. Way past the 7 year mark.
Get the 3 hp.

 

[Timothy White]

A friend of mine got her AB last year it is a great lathe and well worth the wait. Get it with 3 hp and all the other goodies.

 

[Ted Sherman]

I sent a form in to John Jordan (johnjordanwoodturning.com) and he called back quickly, so I'm going up to his studio tomorrow to check out the Robust lathes. He's only about 20miles from me. Thanks for the replies thus far.

 

[Earl McLain]

Welcome Ted.

My upgrade was not what you’re looking for—Rikon 70-220 to a Sweet 16 in early May. Lucked into it used, local, and turned out I knew the guy. E-mailed Brent at Robust with a few questions. Though I was looking at used, his response was within a few hours, and most helpful. The warranty is not only long, it transfers—so I had 2.5 years left, very unexpected. Sweet 16 now has a digital tach, mine didn’t. Instead of selling me a $300-$400 retrofit, which I’d have bought…Brent suggested a $15 handheld from Amazon. Works great, but I’ve taken to turning from feel most of the time. I paid a lot less than new, but would be willing to pay full price now.

Turned on an American Beauty for a 5 day class a few weeks ago—my first time on a sliding headstock. I only turned off the end a few times as I wanted to build skill with what I have to work with. I liked it, and for bowls at age 65–that’s my only misgiving on the Sweet 16. Otherwise the feel between the AB and Sweet 16 was remarkably similar. If I was ordering today— it would be the AB only for the movable headstock.

Hope that helps, you don’t have a loser on your short list!
earl

 

[Roger Wiegand]

You might look at a Stubby 1000 as a bowl lathe as well. I don't think anyone ever regretted buying an AB. I know I haven't. Appreciate that it is made in the USA as well as being a superb machine.

 

[Ron Solfest]

I think after seeing the Robust your search will be over

 

[Glenn Lefley]

I'm new to the forum and need some advice/input. Brief background: I took a bowl turning course at the local Woodcraft in 1/2017, and got the bug, then bought an old Jet 1236 the next year. I used it only a couple times then had a couple surgeries (knees and shoulders) and had to stop. My Dad died end of last year, and my split of the pot is enough to enable me essentially to get what I want. I want to be able to do bowls, hollow forms, and spindles/pens/ornaments/etc. My shop is not air conditioned and being in middle Tennessee humidity is an issue (so rust is an issue. I've got fans running 24/7 in the shop to keep the air moving to minimize rust on my hand tools [planes, saws, spokeshaves, etc.]). I've got 220 w/in 30 ft of where the lathe will go.

So, what I'm considering, and I'd like to hear pros/cons for each, are a Robust American Beauty or Powermatic 4224b or Robust Sweet 16 or PM 3020c (or who would recommend a Vicmarc?). The lag time on delivery for a Robust is about 4 months (16 weeks). Two things I really like about the Robust is the made in USA and the 7 year head-to-tail warranty. I'm especially interested in hearing from anyone who went from a PM to a Robust or the other way around--and why. Also, I'm in no rush or hurry. I want to get the best bang for the buck (no more than $10k for the lathe), and I want to cry only once. Being nearly 60, this will be the last lathe I buy.

You should look into Oneway lathes.

 

[hockenbery]

Robust AB is a terrific lathe. The best of those you listed

consider
oneway 2416 With a 17” outboard is a terrific bowl lathe
also

Oneway 2436 with stainless steel bed.
Get the short extension for the outboard turning.....with an extra banjo.
I bought one about 20 years ago. No problems yet. Way past the 7 year mark.
Get the 3 hp.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I've owned a Robust American Beauty for ten years and am very pleased with it. I have turned on Powermatic 3520 lathes many times and they are very nice, but they'll have to pry my AB from my cold dead fingers. If you want a Robust AB right now, call Don Geiger at Geiger's Solutions in Florida. You could save some in shipping if you have a trailer and don't mind taking a trip to Florida.

Also, John Jordan in Cane Ridge, Tennessee is a Robust dealer, but I don't think that he keeps any lathes in stock.

 

[Damon McLaughlin]

I have turned on many Powermatic 3520b lathes and they're good lathes. The get the job done and have all the features that I enjoy. I purchased a Powermatic 3520c and while many love this newer version, I unfortunately didn't have an enjoyable experience. So I ended up getting the Robust American Beauty almost three years ago and I couldn't be any happier. Brent had quoted me about 12-14 weeks at the time, I was pleasantly surprised when it shipped a few weeks early. Brent is a pleasure to talk to and the lathe is a joy to turn on.

I go visit friends every once in a while and they have several Oneway lathes. The 2436 is also a joy to turn on. You have a lot of fine options out there to upgrade to. If you have a turning club nearby or are a member of one, maybe there is a member that has a Robust, Oneway or Powermatic that you can take a look at, maybe even do a little turning on it.

 

[William Rogers]

Several of the lathes you mentioned are very good. I bought my Robust 2 years ago. It is a joy to turn on and just to know it will be ready every time I am ready to turn. I bought my Robust through John Jordan and he did have it in stock. Got it in just a couple of weeks as Robust tweaked it to my specifications. A good experience buying from John. I have also seen the Woodturning Store advertise one is stock several weeks ago and guessing there may be others that could have one. You mentioned rust. I live just north of you in Southern Indiana and do not have air conditioning. I have had lathes with steel, cast iron, and now stainless steel ways. By far IMO the stainless steel ways are superior to all the other materials. I have seen comments as to I will only have cast iron ways and if they choose to stay in the Iron Age that is fine, but not me. I still deal with the rust on my other shop tables, but not on the lathe ways.

 

[Ted Sherman]

I've owned a Robust American Beauty for ten years and am very pleased with it. I have turned on Powermatic 3520 lathes many times and they are very nice, but they'll have to pry my AB from my cold dead fingers. If you want a Robust AB right now, call Don Geiger at Geiger's Solutions in Florida.. You could save some in shipping if you have a trailer ans don't mind taking a trip to Florida.

Also, John Jordan in Cane Ridge, Tennessee is as Robust dealer, but I don't think that he keeps any lathes in stock.

I'm meeting with John this morning.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Well....John has a manner that is pleasing and convincing...

So my guess is that you will be turning on a Robust very soon.
They are a great lathe. Like many here...I migrated from a Jet, to a Powermatic 3520B...and now a Robust AB. I cannot foresee needing an "upgrade". One note about your shop not having temp/humidity control: the stainless ways (bed) on the Robust will be a true godsend.

 

[Doug Freeman]

My thought is to give serious consideration to ac in the shop and lowering the amount available for a lathe. I live in MO, similar weather. Shop time is so much more enjoyable and no rust issues.

 

[R Henrickson]

They are a great lathe. Like many here...I migrated from a Jet, to a Powermatic 3520B...and now a Robust AB. I cannot foresee needing an "upgrade". One note about your shop not having temp/humidity control: the stainless ways (bed) on the Robust will be a true godsend.

My path as well. Jet 1642, then I was able to buy a used 3520B at a good price. I kept the 1642 and soon found that I actually preferred the 1642, so I used the 3520B relatively little. Some time later I took a Derek Weidman class at Arrowmont. I thought I'd try a Robust since they had a couple models in the turning studio. I used a Sweet 16 for the week and really liked it. I decided to buy a Robust but not the Sweet 16 because one of my absolute requirements was a sliding headstock. Like the original poster, my father's estate had recently been settled so some money was available. Since I then had a surplus of lathes, I had to cull the herd. I immediately decided to sell the PM, and was able to get about 85% of what I had paid. That certainly helped with the cost of the AB. I kept the 1642, although it is currently disassembled.

I've been very happy with the AB for over 5 years.

I have no experience with the 4224. I owned (and sold) a 3520B and have used the 3520C when teaching at John Campbell Folk School. The PM is a good lathe, but I greatly prefer the AB.

 

[Tom Hansen]

Earl, mind linking that digital tach?

 

[robo hippy]

Well, for me, the question is do you want a sliding headstock or a fixed headstock? I prefer the sliding headstock. This would eliminate the Sweet 16 and the Oneway. Main reason is for bowl turning, if you slide the headstock down to the end, you can stand up straight and not have to bend over. I went from a 3520A to the American Beauty. Main reason was the extra horsepower. Mine was one of the first, and it had 3 speed ranges, which I have come to prefer over the 2 speed models like PM. Mostly that is because, as a bowl turner, I core any sizeable blank. If you core in high speed range, the lathe generally doesn't have the torque to do that, and your lathe trips the overload. The low speed range is perfect for coring, but too slow, for me anyway, for turning some of my smaller bowls. With the 3 speed range, mid range is perfect for both, and does well for spindles as well. The AB has the best tailstock tilt away system I have seen. It is also stainless steel. Only difference between the stainless and cast iron metal lathes, as near as I can tell, is they make different noises when you turn.

I also have a Vicmark 240, which is their pivoting headstock model. It has become my favorite lathe for bowl turning. 3 speed ranges, and they are the only ones, in my opinion, who have done the pivoting headstock correctly. In pivoted position, which is at 30 degrees, you have an excellent bowl lathe. It is great for turning spindles as well. The Vicmark lathes are the choice of a number of professional turners. There have been numerous comments about sliding headstock lathes have more vibration issues. To me, this issue is more about the shape of the headstock tower. With the Vic, my chucks mount almost 3 inches closer to the tower than on the AB or the PM, which can add to vibration issues. Note here, with the tailstock engaged, there is no added vibration. What vibration there is, is as much about how much bevel rubbing pressure you are using.

As for size, having the extra height isn't necessary. You will seldom want or need to turn bowls over about 14 inch diameter. Part of that is because it isn't easy to find trees that size, and part of that is most people don't want bowls that size. The 3520 is an excellent lathe, and probably has all the size you need.

I do have a bunch of bowl turning videos up on You Tube. Oh, you will probably spend as much on 'accessories' as you do on the lathe, even 2 to 3 times as much.... We kids and our toys....

robo hippy

 

[Rick Crawford]

When I got back into turning in 2007, I started with a Jet 1236, which didn't take long to tell me that it wasn't up to doing what I was progressing towards. I "upgraded" to a used Yates-American J-170, which I rebuilt and substantially modified. I had been in lust for a Stubby 750 since meeting Bill Rubenstein at the 2009 symposium...but cost was factor then. When my siblings and I settled our parents estate, I finally bought a nice used Stubby 750. I lived in Florida at the time, and the lathe now lives in my damp basement studio in Astoria, Oregon...and has never rusted, despite the lack of climate control in both locations. The Stubby was specifically designed to do large hollow forms and wall pieces. JJ used to be a dealer, and also designed the short bed. Emiliano has 2 Stubby lathes. Ask them about the machines before you make your purchase.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Well, for me, the question is do you want a sliding headstock or a fixed headstock? I prefer the sliding headstock. This would eliminate the Sweet 16 and the Oneway. Main reason is for bowl turning, if you slide the headstock down to the end, you can stand up straight and not have to bend over.........

Don't count the Oneway out. I bought my Oneway 2436 with a 17" long 24" swing outboard extension and a second banjo. This allows me the equivalent of a sliding headstock for bowl turning. This same extension can can be attached to the other end to yield a 53" bed length when needed. (It requires the removal four bolts.} By the way, Oneway offers outboard extentions with swings of up to 48".

 

[Ted Sherman]

Well, for me, the question is do you want a sliding headstock or a fixed headstock? I prefer the sliding headstock. This would eliminate the Sweet 16 and the Oneway. Main reason is for bowl turning, if you slide the headstock down to the end, you can stand up straight and not have to bend over. I went from a 3520A to the American Beauty. Main reason was the extra horsepower. Mine was one of the first, and it had 3 speed ranges, which I have come to prefer over the 2 speed models like PM. Mostly that is because, as a bowl turner, I core any sizeable blank. If you core in high speed range, the lathe generally doesn't have the torque to do that, and your lathe trips the overload. The low speed range is perfect for coring, but too slow, for me anyway, for turning some of my smaller bowls. With the 3 speed range, mid range is perfect for both, and does well for spindles as well. The AB has the best tailstock tilt away system I have seen. It is also stainless steel. Only difference between the stainless and cast iron metal lathes, as near as I can tell, is they make different noises when you turn.

I also have a Vicmark 240, which is their pivoting headstock model. It has become my favorite lathe for bowl turning. 3 speed ranges, and they are the only ones, in my opinion, who have done the pivoting headstock correctly. In pivoted position, which is at 30 degrees, you have an excellent bowl lathe. It is great for turning spindles as well. The Vicmark lathes are the choice of a number of professional turners. There have been numerous comments about sliding headstock lathes have more vibration issues. To me, this issue is more about the shape of the headstock tower. With the Vic, my chucks mount almost 3 inches closer to the tower than on the AB or the PM, which can add to vibration issues. Note here, with the tailstock engaged, there is no added vibration. What vibration there is, is as much about how much bevel rubbing pressure you are using.

As for size, having the extra height isn't necessary. You will seldom want or need to turn bowls over about 14 inch diameter. Part of that is because it isn't easy to find trees that size, and part of that is most people don't want bowls that size. The 3520 is an excellent lathe, and probably has all the size you need.

I do have a bunch of bowl turning videos up on You Tube. Oh, you will probably spend as much on 'accessories' as you do on the lathe, even 2 to 3 times as much.... We kids and our toys....

robo hippy

I've watched several and I have your robo rest for sharpening!

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I love this question. I have seen it countless times on the forum. A simple search should show you more threads with more info. Nothing gets the members engaged when we are asked what lathe do I buy, or what bowl gouge is the best one. I always answer that you should consider calling Rod Caddeye in Australia. Even with shipping my Stubby 1000 with a 3hp was way cheaper than the best American and or Canadian-made lathes. I have turned in just about every lathe available for purchase, and some older ones like Nichols lathes. When I needed a second lathe, I did not hesitate. I already had a Stubby 750. So I ordered her bigger sister, the 1000. I also prefer cast iron. Welded steel sounds like church bells to me, and more prone to harmonic vibrations. Check them out at https://www.omegastubbylathes.com If you come to Maui, you can take my girls for a spin.

 

[Earl McLain]

Earl, mind linking that digital tach?

Tom,
This is the one Brent suggested—has worked well for 3 months now. Matches almost exactly with the readout on my Rikon as a test.

Amazon.com: AGPtek® Professional Digital Laser Photo Tachometer Non Contact RPM Tach: Automotive

Buy AGPtek® Professional Digital Laser Photo Tachometer Non Contact RPM Tach: Tachometers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Earl

 

[Tim Tucker]

I love this question. I have seen it countless times on the forum. A simple search should show you more threads with more info. Nothing gets the members engaged when we are asked what lathe do I buy, or what bowl gouge is the best one. I always answer that you should consider calling Rod Caddeye in Australia. Even with shipping my Stubby 1000 with a 3hp was way cheaper than the best American and or Canadian-made lathes. I have turned in just about every lathe available for purchase, and some older ones like Nichols lathes. When I needed a second lathe, I did not hesitate. I already had a Stubby 750. So I ordered her bigger sister, the 1000. I also prefer cast iron. Welded steel sounds like church bells to me, and more prone to harmonic vibrations. Check them out at https://www.omegastubbylathes.com If you come to Maui, you can take my girls for a spin.

I have always loved the Stubby lathes. But, When I got to the point to buy a larger lathe, they had lost distribution in the U.S.......And it made me a bit nervous - perhaps for the wrong reasons, but newness to making a purchase like this was responsible for that. I am curious about a coupe of things tho Emiliano...And - I ask you because I think of you as the default spokesperson for the product line now. No intended pressure... :

Can the Stubby 1000 be broken down into smaller segments, in order to get it into place? I live on the side of a mountain. And - I truly have no flat areas that approach the basement shop. I do have a tractor that can transport heavy items up the front driveway to the basement ( which is a genuine 35 degree slope...) but once I get something to the basement doors - I then have to navigate it into the shop by hand, using dollies to where it will be placed. So - if it can be partially dissembled into 3 or 4 sub-assemblies....I may be tempted to buy one.

Freight considerations.....I know you mentioned freight. I wonder how much freight add there is from HI to NC. I know freight issues between the mainland and HI are a consideration sometimes...and I am on the East Coast - so....that is a lot of added freight miles. I am going to reach out to Stubby to get some idea of the cost to get one waaaaasy over here.

 

[Rick Crawford]

Tim, the S750 comes apart to handtruck manageable bits...I would suspect that the S1000 does as well. Check the Asheville area for a used 750. I bought mine from a turner that was downsizing his teaching shop in Fairview. They don't stay on the used market very long. John Hill told me about the one that I bought.

 

[robo hippy]

Dale Larson, of Portland, and former board member of the AAW, does all of his bowl roughing on his big Oneway over the long bed of his lathe. He does turn on the outboard for finish turning. It works. In the old days, some of the lathes had reverse threads for the outboard turning set up. I think that has been fixed now. My lathe sat in a corner for many years, and the outboard end was always against the wall. I find the concept of the sliding headstock to be more versatile. Only real set back to any sliding headstock design I have seen is too small of a pressure plate on the bottom of the headstock. For me, that plate needs to be much bigger than the ones on the banjo and tailstock. My AB has one that is the same size as the base of the headstock tower. I friend got a Shop Fox lathe, which he sent back. They used the same pressure plate on all 3 pieces, and it was about 2 inch diameter for a headstock the same size as the PM. I think the one on the PM is about 4 inch diameter, which to me works, but needs to be bigger. As I have said before, I did concrete work and prefer things to be over built rather than underbuilt. Hated having forms blow during a pour....

The Stubby lathes do look interesting, but I have never had a chance to give one a test drive. Same with the VB36. I would be interested in designing and building my own lathe, but just don't have the time, in this life time..... I did see one of the old Nichols' lathes, but that was about the time the PM3520 came out.

I have wondered about the steel frame lathes... What would it be like to fill the inside up with sand????? The different noises they make compared to cast iron is some thing I don't notice any more...

robo hippy

 

[Mike Johnson]

If Chevy and Ford made wood lathes we would surely see some heated discussions big time.

 

[Rick Crawford]

Stephen Hogbin made a lathe using a Ford truck axle.

Emmett Kane made a lathe with a massive poured concrete base.

Del Stubs did a video "Bowl Turning with Del Stubs", through Taunton Press. He discussed filling the stand with sand, along with other improvements.

Biltmore Scrap Metals, on the southside of Asheville, has a wonderful variety of "repurposeables". I've bought alot of copper roofing sheet there. They encourage artists to come root around. The first time I went there, I passed an elderly gentleman, who said "it's here...the trick is finding it".

 

[Ted Sherman]

I love this question. I have seen it countless times on the forum. A simple search should show you more threads with more info. Nothing gets the members engaged when we are asked what lathe do I buy, or what bowl gouge is the best one. I always answer that you should consider calling Rod Caddeye in Australia. Even with shipping my Stubby 1000 with a 3hp was way cheaper than the best American and or Canadian-made lathes. I have turned in just about every lathe available for purchase, and some older ones like Nichols lathes. When I needed a second lathe, I did not hesitate. I already had a Stubby 750. So I ordered her bigger sister, the 1000. I also prefer cast iron. Welded steel sounds like church bells to me, and more prone to harmonic vibrations. Check them out at https://www.omegastubbylathes.com If you come to Maui, you can take my girls for a spin.

I know nothing about Stubby lathes, though John Jordan did mention yesterday that he only began selling Robust lathes after he could no longer sell Stubby's. The Stubby website is horrible--very little information available there. I have used the online form to request additional information. I understand, from another thread, that the lag time from order to delivery is a year. However, what I read here https://www.loupignoletbowls2.com/single-post/2019/11/29/My-New-Stubby-S1000-Lathe has piqued my interest.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Tim, the S750 comes apart to handtruck manageable bits...I would suspect that the S1000 does as well. Check the Asheville area for a used 750. I bought mine from a turner that was downsizing his teaching shop in Fairview. They don't stay on the used market very long. John Hill told me about the one that I bought.

Thanks for that Rick! I will be seeing John Hill on Sunday at a Nick Agar class...Will have to thump John for not telling me about that Stubby 750

 

[Rick Crawford]

Thanks for that Rick! I will be seeing John Hill on Sunday at a Nick Agar class...Will have to thump John for not telling me about that Stubby 750

That was at the Atlanta airport...I ran into John as we were taking the same flight to the Phoenix symposium. I've known John and Patty for many years...I taught her photography in 1986. Give him my regards.

 

[Tim Tucker]

That was at the Atlanta airport...I ran into John as we were taking the same flight to the Phoenix symposium. I've known John and Patty for many years...I taught her photography in 1986. Give him my regards.

Of course...I tease...John is a force of nature, and the reason we have Carolina Mountain Woodturners. I will deliver your greetings. he will get a kick out of it.
T

 

[John Jordan]

I've owned a Robust American Beauty for ten years and am very pleased with it. I have turned on Powermatic 3520 lathes many times and they are very nice, but they'll have to pry my AB from my cold dead fingers. If you want a Robust AB right now, call Don Geiger at Geiger's Solutions in Florida. You could save some in shipping if you have a trailer and don't mind taking a trip to Florida.

Also, John Jordan in Cane Ridge, Tennessee is a Robust dealer, but I don't think that he keeps any lathes in stock.

Bill, we always have several lathes in stock or in process so we can ship quickly.

John

 

[Roger Wiegand]

Saw a video of a factory tour at Martin recently, it seems they fill the stands of their table saws and perhaps other tools with concrete for added stability and rigidity. The "sheet metal" they build the bases out of looked to be over 1/4" thick, so I'm not sure the concrete added all that much to the weight of the machines!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG9b7ofMdm8
Only in German, but well worth watching if you like nice machines!

 

[Ted Sherman]

Well, I pulled the trigger today on a standard bed Robust American Beauty with the 3hp and tilt-away (with gas shock)--should arrive by October. John and Vicki, and Brent English at Robust, were wonderful to deal with and very patient with my questions and dithering back and forth. I also did hear back from Ray at Stubby--he tells me they shoot for a 3 month delivery. But I have to say: the customer care/service from Robust is fantastic--couldn't be nicer folks to deal with.

 

[Timothy White]

Congrats you won’t regret your decision

 

[JeffSmith]

That's the same configuration I've got - just over 9 years ago. I doubt you'll be regretting your decision - the lathe is a workhorse and Robust has been delightful to deal with from initial contact through idiotic questions from a new owner, they've been great. Enjoy

 

[John Jordan]

Plus you live right down the road. LOL We appreciate you.

John

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Well, I pulled the trigger today on a standard bed Robust American Beauty with the 3hp and tilt-away (with gas shock)--should arrive by October. John and Vicki, and Brent English at Robust, were wonderful to deal with and very patient with my questions and dithering back and forth. I also did hear back from Ray at Stubby--he tells me they shoot for a 3 month delivery. But I have to say: the customer care/service from Robust is fantastic--couldn't be nicer folks to deal with.

Congratulations! I'm jealous of the gas shock tilt away!