Scraper Question

[Kirk Amidon]

A project that I'm keen to try is to turn a canister to hold kitchen utensils, using dried hardwood, cut into staves. I'm good with the process of creating staves and gluing, etc. I've got some questions about turning the canister. I'm figuring the outside dimension to be approximately 8" tall and 6" in diameter the sides will be effectively straight, but may have a slight taper. Turning the outside should be straightforward, but the inside is going to be more of a challenge. To accomplish this, it seems that a scraper or two might be the order of the day. The specific shape will depend on how I decide to work the bottom corner, square or round. Thinking that I'd need a side cutting scraper, in either round or diamond shape.

I see that PSI has both of them, but with what appears to be relatively short handles. Would I be better off with scrapers with longer handles ~16" or so vs. the 12" on the PSI? I know that I'll have to angle my tool rest inside the canister.

Did a search for both the stave turning and the scraper question, but did not find any suitable answers.

 

[hockenbery]

there are lots of choices that would work

i would use a termite tool for the hollowing and a #4 Hunter for the finish cut

hook tool could substitute for the termite.

if You are good at endgrain hollowing with a gouge - a 1/2 spindle gouge could be used for the hollowing.
you’d need a little more sanding than with the Hunter.

if you have a hollowing set up a Hunter hollowing tip would do a great job.
Bosch and Jamieson both have the for their hollowing bars.
A teardrop scraper on a hollowing rig would

another thought is not hollowing the inside. I do stave construction bird houses the flats are more suitable for making little notches for the babies to climb out
angle on the inside would let the utensils rest in corners.

the Hunter will give a pretty sharp inside corner. Attaching the bottom after the hollowing make a sharp corner too.
I would add a rim to the top to hide the endgrain.

 

[robo hippy]

In order to reach 8 inches off of your tool rest, you need a substantial tool, and for me, that would be a 5/8 or 3/4 inch diameter shaft. Not positive about the shaft set up. For most end grain hollowing, I use standard hollowing tools for roughing, and NRSs for the finish cuts. I know Mike Hunter makes very high quality carbide tipped tools, but I don't have any of them, mostly because I don't turn many hollow forms, though I do some deep boxes. The idea of leaving the staves on the inside would simplify the project. Our club just had a demo on a staved drinking mug. The turner used to use table sawn staves, but switched to a router bit set up, which makes for a much stronger glue joint. Worth considering if you are going to be doing a bunch of them.

Oh, for reaching out that far off the tool rest, you want a small bit/cutter, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 max for this type of cutting. You can probably get down several inches with more standard scrapers or your gouges, but once you get out past 4 or so inches, you are the small kid on the wrong end of a see saw when the big kid gets on....

robo hippy

 

[Kirk Amidon]

Reed - I was thinking that I'd be able to angle the tool rest into the opening, which would lessen the overhang to something more manageable than 8". Probably more in the 3" range, but that might be optimistic.

 

[Earl McLain]

In order to reach 8 inches off of your tool rest, you need a substantial tool, and for me, that would be a 5/8 or 3/4 inch diameter shaft. Not positive about the shaft set up. For most end grain hollowing, I use standard hollowing tools for roughing, and NRSs for the finish cuts. I know Mike Hunter makes very high quality carbide tipped tools, but I don't have any of them, mostly because I don't turn many hollow forms, though I do some deep boxes. The idea of leaving the staves on the inside would simplify the project. Our club just had a demo on a staved drinking mug. The turner used to use table sawn staves, but switched to a router bit set up, which makes for a much stronger glue joint. Worth considering if you are going to be doing a bunch of them.

Oh, for reaching out that far off the tool rest, you want a small bit/cutter, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 max for this type of cutting. You can probably get down several inches with more standard scrapers or your gouges, but once you get out past 4 or so inches, you are the small kid on the wrong end of a see saw when the big kid gets on....

robo hippy

Reed—do you recall if that router setup was the birds beak type? Something I’ve been tempted to try. Thanks.
Earl

 

[brian horais]

A project that I'm keen to try is to turn a canister to hold kitchen utensils, using dried hardwood, cut into staves. I'm good with the process of creating staves and gluing, etc. I've got some questions about turning the canister. I'm figuring the outside dimension to be approximately 8" tall and 6" in diameter the sides will be effectively straight, but may have a slight taper. Turning the outside should be straightforward, but the inside is going to be more of a challenge. To accomplish this, it seems that a scraper or two might be the order of the day. The specific shape will depend on how I decide to work the bottom corner, square or round. Thinking that I'd need a side cutting scraper, in either round or diamond shape.

I see that PSI has both of them, but with what appears to be relatively short handles. Would I be better off with scrapers with longer handles ~16" or so vs. the 12" on the PSI? I know that I'll have to angle my tool rest inside the canister.

Did a search for both the stave turning and the scraper question, but did not find any suitable answers.

Kirk, I have turned a number of staved vases and jars and the interior turning is the trickiest. With the vertical orientation of the staves I find the Hunter tools work best for me to slowly start trimming away the stave edges and working towards a smooth interior surface. I like the Hunter Hercules models due to the square shaft which provides support against the tool rest when 'chipping away' at interior staves. I use the Hunter #3 and the Hunter #1 depending on the size of the opening. Once the interior surface is nearly smooth I use a negative rake scraper to add smoothness to the surface and then sand to a desired surface. One challenge is smoothing and turning that bottom edge of the staves that rests against the base. A technique I have developed to overcome this challenge is to mount the staves( before gluing them to the base ) on an internal chuck and turn the interior bottom surface for about the first inch to inch and a half. That way, once the staves are glued to the base, you can smooth the interior staves without having the challenge of the square corner where the staves meet the base.

Brian

 

[Dean Center]

Kirk,
8" inches is a long way and is inherently difficult, as you've been advised above. Turning your tool rest into the opening doesn't really help much, due to the shape of typical tool rests. There is one tool rest that is basically a platform that sticks out from the post 3" or so, if I remember correctly, and would decrease the overhang by quite a bit. (Here's one from Nova as an example https://www.teknatool.com/products/lathe-accessories/toolrests/nova-large-box-rest/

Using scrapers is possible, but when the edge of the scraper comes in contact with the bottom of the piece, there is commonly a fairly violent grab. I can't do 8", but on the deepest boxes I do, a square end scraper, ground so the left corner is a little less than 90 degrees and the left side of the tip also scrapes can help you make a sharp corner, if that's what you want. But, there's that violent catch lurking and it takes a lot of recent practice to succeed. As others have mentioned, this is a situation where a Hunter tool is a huge help.

 

[robo hippy]

Sticking a straight rest, or even a bowl rest inside a form will help some. When inside a form, I still don't want much overhang. That box rest from Nova does work, but still, you need a long shaft so your handle is not on the rest. I would go shallower at first to try it out.

As for the stave router bit, I think it is a set, one for the tongue, and the other for a groove. I think they are for 8 sided pieces, don't really remember, but bird's beak is a good description.

robo hippy

 

[Mike Johnson]

I have turned a number of staved "hollow vessels" in various sizes over the years, starting at the outside edge and working your way down into the vessel will reduce the
vibration on the tool and operator. Trying to cut against the inside surface of the staves is a pain as the tool will bounce on each stave high point.

 

[Clifton C]

Kirk, I have a similar upcoming project. What are your plans for the cylinder to base connection/joint ?

 

[Kirk Amidon]

Kirk, I have a similar upcoming project. What are your plans for the cylinder to base connection/joint ?

I'm probably going to go with a solid turned base, with a tenon which would fit to the inner diameter of the cylinder.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

The router bit is called a bird mouth bit because the cut looks like a open birds mouth.

 

[Kirk Amidon]

Circling back. I completed a test vessel, which turned out pretty well, overall. I had a bunch of lousy wormholed oak which I thought would be a good source of stave stock. Also decided to embellish it with some slivers of walnut.


(will add pictures shortly)

First I needed to build a couple of sleds, one for cutting the staves, and another for cutting the segments.


General approach was to mount the large end of the staves on Cole Jaws, so that the inside could be rounded, added a mortise to increase gluing area for the bottom. Glued up a chunk of oak and walnut for the bottom, put it on a faceplate, then turned the tenon on the walnut.

Attached the bottom to the vessel, and then turned the inside with a 5/8" bowl gauge. Did need to angle the tool rest deep into the vessel. Added a mortise for the segmented top.

Meanwhile, cut two rings of segments for the rim, one of walnut, the other oak. Mounted those on a glue block with turner's tape. Trued up the walnut and cut the tenon. Trued up the oak, and glued both on the lathe with tailstock pressure.

At that point, turned the rim round, then turned the exterior.

Finished with Walnut oil.

 

[robo hippy]

I have yet to do any segmenting, but have done a lot of flat work. Perhaps it is the Murphey's law thing kicking in, but I can do a dry fit before gluing, and every thing fits perfectly. Then when I apply the glue, nothing fits correctly..... Perhaps that is why I haven't tried the segmenting yet...

robo hippy