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spinning tops...

Ronald Kanne

Ronald Kanne

Joined
Oct 5, 2022
Messages
24
Likes
102
Location
Wehl, the Netherlands
Website
www.dehoutdraaierij.nl
I doubted for a long time whether I should make a video about spinning tops... After all, it is a very simple thing... All the greater is my surprise that it has already been viewed almost 8000 times in the past few days! (that's a huge number for my channel)
What I am also very happy about is that the viewers see that the camera is being handled by a professional. Cool close ups, so you can always see how the tool is presented to the wood. Anyway, if you want to take a look, here it is:
View: https://youtu.be/BK0UwqWuJHQ
 
Well done, and timely. I'm planning on some tops/launchers for my Christmas toy donations. The egg is one I hadn't thought of.
Thanks for posting the video.
Barry W. Larson
Calgary, Alberta, Canada eh!
 
The tops with the low center of gravity are difficult to hand spin. Unless you launch it perfectly up and down/plumb, the outside edge will rub. I do use Delrin, which is a hard plastic that turns easily. Biggest advantage to it is that you can spin tops on the wood floors, well, most of them, and they won't drill holes in the floor. For a top with that diameter, I will put the stem between my palms, and push/pull with both hands. I can get 3 to maybe 5 minutes with a spin that way.

robo hippy
 
Ronald, I watched this a few days ago and laughed and nodded at your insightful opening comment: “If you are a woodturner, you probably have grandchildren.” So true. I’d love to know, if AAW keeps this kind of data, the demographics of the turning population over time. I speculate that as we baby boomers retire, the ranks of turners are likely expanding tremendously.
BTW, it’s a terrific video. Thanks, as always for your wonderful presentation, instruction, humor, and special thanks to the cinematographer!
 
I made a bunch of similar pull string tops, and used a smooth steel pin to have the top spin longer and not wear away on a rough surface, also made a few throw tops like we used as kids in The Netherlands.

These things are fun to make and then enjoy the kids playing with them, even old kids 😀 .

A couple of pictures that I had made of the different tops I made.



Fun spinning tops.jpg

Don't know why I had it hanging up, but it does show the type I made up close.
Pullstring top.jpg
This is a simpler design and it works OK, just wax the opening for a smooth rotation in the handle.
Simpler design.jpg

This was the type of throw top we used to play with when I was still a small kid.
Throw top.jpg
 
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I make snap tops at demos we do the the MS AG Museum. Also fingertops, tippie tops and whistling tops which like the tippie for me is a hit or miss. Styles of design change over time and almost everyone has some different ideas but all of them are fum

IMG_1635.JPG
IMG_7371_1834045929.JPG
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
I made a bunch of similar pull string tops, and used a smooth steel pin to have the top spin longer and not wear away on a rough surface, also made a few throw tops like we used as kids in The Netherlands.

These things are fun to make and then enjoy the kids playing with them, even old kids 😀 .

A couple of pictures that I had made of the different tops I made.



View attachment 55208

Don't know why I had it hanging up, but it does show the type I made up close.
View attachment 55209
This is a simpler design and it works OK, just wax the opening for a smooth rotation in the handle.
View attachment 55210

This was the type of throw top we used to play with when I was still a small kid.
View attachment 55211
Click to expand...
Remember them well Leo, chasing them in the school yard.
 
Excellent video Ronald! I really enjoyed the close up shots and the nice music.

PS: Sick with COVID so it was a nice time passer. Might be awhile until I turn anything though, so it is nice to watch others from the couch😀
 
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What a great video! Spinning tops are addictive to make and to play with. I’m not making them for ‘the grandchildren’ but for my friends in their 60’s who can still find the ‘child within.’😊
 

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Anne Whitcombe said:
I’m not making them for ‘the grandchildren’ but for my friends in their 60’s who can still find the ‘child within.
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Ah, tops! It's always nice to see an old thread, new to me.

I've made many hundreds, maybe a 1000, would send them 50 at a time with a missionary friend going to an orphanage in Romania - those kids often had nothing. And these don't need batteries!

Great to get out at group events, at breaks when I was working, parties, for visiting kids. I once had a corporate director in a suit and tie get down on the floor with me to spin tops. 🙂

I always take them on trips and give them to people I meet, old and young. I've made some lifelong friends in Italy starting with the simple action of getting a few out of my pocket on a train from Austria to Venice!

tops_comp2c.jpg

I've never read a book or watched a video on making these but that might be fun some day.

This is the method I teach, although I usually make 3 or 4 in a row from a single blank in a chuck.
Skew and spindle gouge.
top_sequence.jpg

Good simple fun.

JKJ
 
John K Jordan said:
I always take them on trips and give them to people I meet, old and young. I've made some lifelong friends in Italy starting with the simple action of getting a few out of my pocket on a train from Austria to Venice
Click to expand...
I do the same thing. I usually pack as many as we have different accommodations planned, plus a few for good measure. Whenever we have an innkeeper or AirBnB host we particularly like, I give one to their kids (or grandkids). The response is always wonderfully positive. The best thing is that traveling with only carryon baggage, they take up no space. On a trip to Scotland in the spring, a train conductor went out of his way to help us with a tight connection. He got one, and was bowled over.
 
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I love tops, just like many, they were some of the first projects I completed. However, as with most things I try, I wonder how it can be improved. For many turned objects, the goal is that it looks good. A bowl or box must be done well, but a precise piece is still not as impressive as one that looks great, feels great, and has tasteful details and proportions. For tops, however, I am interested in how well they work. I do want them to be pretty, however they can be more than that. With this, I found Iacopo Simonelli. He turns performance spinning tops. His are not only extremely well made and precise but also aesthetically appealing and attractive. His tops could not be farther from "simple", and are a larger challenge to turn than anything I have ever tried. I think it can be done on a wood lathe, but with precision that is generally not found in the woodshop. I think I need a dial indicator if I want to pursue a top that spins for more than 5 minutes in his style. The general components are a long handle, metal flywheel, wooden core, and hardened steel tip. In addition, there is a carbide base. The problem is that every piece must be so precisely aligned and turned that it can't be done by eye. He often uses a microscope to make adjustments off of the lathe. I would be interested to see if some woodturners on this forum can replicate his results to any degree. I haven't seen it done much, mostly machinists with a CNC lathe.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et6KP6d-BDM
 
Spinning Time - @Isaac Litster got me thinking. So I grabbed a few scrap tops off of the window sill in my shop and spun them on the tablesaw. Not nearly a perfect, nor even controlled, experiment. What I found is that these simple wood tops spin a little over 30sec for the ~5gm ones, and a little over a minute for the ~20gm variety. Anyone have some spin time metrics I should shoot for next time I make some for my grandkids?

I didn’t include a pic because these scrap tops in my shop are more of the Raffan variety (with some dings) and no where close to the Simonelli work of art
 
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Ron Solfest said:
Anyone have some spin time metrics I should shoot for next time I make some for my grandkids?
Click to expand...
Well, I'd ask if anyone knows a kid under age, oh... 15, who has a disciplined attention span that can go longer than 30 seconds?

Adults will want to see the Guinness Record top spin. A 6-year-old will crash their hand on it after 7-8 seconds, then spin it again with wild abandon.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
A 6-year-old will crash their hand on it after 7-8 seconds, then spin it again with wild abandon.
Click to expand...

My experience was different. I did this with my kindergarten class every year right before Christmas. I made tops suited to small hands.

I always started a group of 5 and 6 year olds in the class by having them gather around and pick up and handle some tops I made, then watch me spin a few. Then teach them how to spin and let them try out different tops. Most got the hang of it quickly. Some needed extra individual attention.

After a break with a different activity, we'd draw names and each pick one - by that time each has their eye on a favorite. (Always bring a few extra!) Have them spin theirs on the table or floor until it wobbles and falls over. Repeat. Good fun!

Then ... ask if anyone can spin theirs upside-down! They wiill ALL all try and fail before I show them the way that works. This gives them a challenge that keeps them focused for a while! Young kids are easily bored but are energized by challenges. (Upside down can be challenging for some adults too!)

I also taught some to spin one on their open hand and carry it spinning around the room. Dish out plenty of encouragement! After enough practice we have 3 or four at a time spin theirs on a dinner plate and cheer for the last one standing - top wars! (bring several plates!) Then when the class is over they get to take their own top home. Always a big hit.

Some kids told me years later they still had their top!

When my 3-year-old grandson wanted one I said he could have it as soon as he learned to spin it. It took him several visits but he finally got it! (finger coordination may not be well developed at that age.).

(BTW, I taught 5 and 6 year olds for 27 years and learned a few things. They are not much different than some adults.)

JKJ
 
Huh, maybe I was just having flashbacks to when I was 6 years old!
 
Charles Cadenhead said:
...my wife is a retired kindergarten teacher (35 years) 🙂
Click to expand...

Kids at that age are the best!, old enough to reason with but not old enough to be smart alecks!
What I taught was kindergarten SS classes at our church - there were several kindergarten classes going on at the same time - class sizes were usually 10 to 15 kids - easy to handle. And always entertaining! I had a little owl puppet to help me tell the story of the day, crafts, surprises in a bag to guess, a prize box for special things, sparkly crayons.

I'd sometimes bring in a musical instrument, baby chickens, a lion's skull or something else related to the story. And always reading and writing on the whiteboard, sometimes words from another language. And the stories the kids had, some happy, some heartbreaking.
(However, I did catch every cold that came though but it was worth it!)
When I started teaching I was the only male in the preschool department. Years later at least 1/2 of the preschool teachers were men.

And I was privileged to teach a large group of 50-60 kids (K thru 3rd) on rotation with three other guys. THAT was a blast.
(took me maybe 10-12 hours each time to prepare - creative intro, photos, videos, story, make visual aids)
We had a farm day at our place every year for the kindergartners - hay rides, pet a horse, take a llama for a walk, collect eggs from the chickens, plant a bean in the garden...

The best thing ever - decades later some of the "kids" still stay in touch, graduating from college, having their own kids, three have come to the shop for woodturning lessons!

I have a deep, deep respect for teachers. Hats off to your wife - a large class in a public school might send me to the insane asylum!
 
If you think your spin top (or anything you make) could find its way into the hands, and mouths, of young children, here is the link to the Fed's Consumer Product Safety Commision site. See section 4, "What is a small part?" to see graphic dimensions for minimum sizes that would prevent a choking hazard for children. Other product specification info here, too.
www.cpsc.gov

Small Parts and Choking Hazard Labeling FAQs

www.cpsc.gov www.cpsc.gov
 
Would brass serve as a good material for the contact tip of small spin tops (the finger spin variety)?

I'm thinking that when roughing the outer conical shape, make a flat spot at that tip to be able to drill a 1/8" hole to accept a short piece of brass rod. Epoxy in place, then finish turning the outer cone shape, cutting the brass to follow the shape.

I'd blunt and polish the point of the brass as not to be sharp and scratch surfaces.

Has this been done before and I'm just thinking about it for the first time? Would a different metal be suggested? I'm thinking brass because in small sizes it can be carefully worked with woodturning tools.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
Would brass serve as a good material for the contact tip of small spin tops (the finger spin variety)?

I'm thinking that when roughing the outer conical shape, make a flat spot at that tip to be able to drill a 1/8" hole to accept a short piece of brass rod. Epoxy in place, then finish turning the outer cone shape, cutting the brass to follow the shape.

I'd blunt and polish the point of the brass as not to be sharp and scratch surfaces.

Has this been done before and I'm just thinking about it for the first time? Would a different metal be suggested? I'm thinking brass because in small sizes it can be carefully worked with woodturning tools.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea! Especially on tops made from softer wood whose points may get dinged a bit with aggressive use!, probably not an issue for hard woods like ebony.

I've added brass and other tips to tops and other turnings. Brass always looks good when polished (and waxed). I've even turned entire tops from aluminum but haven't made any from brass yet but now I might try. (Brass is heavier and relatively expensive in larger diameters!)
When turning brass, it's recommended to buy type 360, free machining brass. It's alloyed with a trace of lead to make it easier to machine.

Aluminum is a bit easier to turn on the wood lathe but brass is no problem. For example, these pieces were quick to make and easy to polish.

box_albizia_brass_comp.jpg

You may not even need to shape the brass to fit the shape of the top - an interesting and even more visible turned and polished brass tip might add some class! (and work just as well) It should run true if the hole is true.

BTW, When drilling, on the lathe I ALWAYS start by making a shallow hole in the wood with stubby center drills which can't wander with the grain and starts the drill bit on center. A set of center drills is real cheap.
center drills.jpg
Lots of options. I buy from Little Machine Shop but there are a bunch on amazon.
I use HSS but it would not even be needed for drilling shallow starting holes wood.

I also prefer to use taper shank drill bits to eliminate the Jacobs chuck for more accuracy. I discovered these years ago from Rudy Lopez - he shortened and resharpened a 1" diam taper shank bit and used it to partially hollow goblets. What a great idea!
Since then I've acquired taper shank bits in almost every size. The small ones need a 1MT to 2MT adapter.
taper_1_IMG_20160919_094408.jpg taper_2_IMG_20160919_094945.jpg

When making throw tops I always glue in a tip from some plastic like nylon. I do this to minimize making marks in floors.

JKJ
 
John and Ron, thanks for the pointers, I appreciate it.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
Would brass serve as a good material for the contact tip of small spin tops (the finger spin variety)?

I'm thinking that when roughing the outer conical shape, make a flat spot at that tip to be able to drill a 1/8" hole to accept a short piece of brass rod. Epoxy in place, then finish turning the outer cone shape, cutting the brass to follow the shape.

I'd blunt and polish the point of the brass as not to be sharp and scratch surfaces.

Has this been done before and I'm just thinking about it for the first time? Would a different metal be suggested? I'm thinking brass because in small sizes it can be carefully worked with woodturning tools.
Click to expand...
Drill a small hole and tap in an Escutcheon pin. Drop of CA glue may be helpful. Small head and it is already rounded - but can still be sanded and/or turned if needed. Another option: put thin CA glue on the wooden end grain tip for strength and durability ... no brass needed. Saves time!
 
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Our club sells tops for charity. Here are some posted in the Gallery.

Tops for Charity

Tops for Charity

  • Media owner Tom Gall
  • Date added
  • Comments 2
Maple tops – textured and colored with acrylics, inks, iridescent, interference, and metallic...
Tops for Charity (view of bottoms)

Tops for Charity (view of bottoms)

  • Media owner Tom Gall
  • Date added
  • Comments 6
Maple tops – textured and colored with acrylics, inks, iridescent, interference, and metallic...
 
Steve Tiedman said:
Would brass serve as a good material for the contact tip of small spin tops (the finger spin variety)?

I'm thinking that when roughing the outer conical shape, make a flat spot at that tip to be able to drill a 1/8" hole to accept a short piece of brass rod. Epoxy in place, then finish turning the outer cone shape, cutting the brass to follow the shape.

I'd blunt and polish the point of the brass as not to be sharp and scratch surfaces.

Has this been done before and I'm just thinking about it for the first time? Would a different metal be suggested? I'm thinking brass because in small sizes it can be carefully worked with woodturning tools.
Click to expand...
Brass is nice because you can turn it with the lathe tools fairly easily. The thing about tops is that the tip is the most precarious part. if the tip is imperfect to a fraction of a millimeter, the top will shake and wobble, and won't spin very well. You know the type of top that when spun doesn't look like it is moving. The more parts of the top you make, and rechucking, the more and more difficult it is to make perfectly concentric. Drill bits are not always accurate because the smaller you get, or the farther you go in, the more it will drift, even if you cannot tell it visually. I have personally had more success with a miniature spindle gouge that is less than 1/8 inch, I hollow a hole that fits the metal tip, so I know it is perfectly centered. I read in an old turning magazine about turning the top completely between centers, using a cup center (removing the tip from the live center or making a similar drive center), to keep it perfectly concentric. For longer more precise tops, a tip made of a broken Allen key/drill bit, sharpened on the grinder. Better is a 1/8 HSS rod, or carbide, if you have a carbide base.

To answer your question, brass is good, but when drilling, be careful that the drill bit is perfectly centered. I have used brass and it is more forgiving than grinding a hardened steel. For most applications, brass is good, much better than a nail or any wood.
 
Steve Tiedman said:
If you think your spin top (or anything you make) could find its way into the hands, and mouths, of young children, here is the link to the Fed's Consumer Product Safety Commision site. See section 4, "What is a small part?" to see graphic dimensions for minimum sizes that would prevent a choking hazard for children. Other product specification info here, too.
Click to expand...
This is my exact concern when I am making spin tops or other toy-type turnings that may end up in the hands of little kids - And is why I only do one-piece items in that case - My concern is that a multi-part top such as with brass or pin tips can come apart - Wood Moves, but various glues, metal parts, etc do not, and eventually any bond is going to fail at some point - Then what happens when a small brass (or other metal) point comes out and gets swallowed?
 
Steve Tiedman said:
Would brass serve as a good material for the contact tip of small spin tops (the finger spin variety)?

I'm thinking that when roughing the outer conical shape, make a flat spot at that tip to be able to drill a 1/8" hole to accept a short piece of brass rod. Epoxy in place, then finish turning the outer cone shape, cutting the brass to follow the shape.

I'd blunt and polish the point of the brass as not to be sharp and scratch surfaces.

Has this been done before and I'm just thinking about it for the first time? Would a different metal be suggested? I'm thinking brass because in small sizes it can be carefully worked with woodturning tools.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should have watched the video from the original posting. About 3 minutes in-
View: https://youtu.be/BK0UwqWuJHQ?t=183&si=Envh3SlbslLkitj2
 
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