SRG (spindle roughing gouge)

[Tim Mehling]

Champagne tastes Budweiser budget.. (story of my life)

I've been looking at three makers of spindle roughing gouges, Thompson, Carter and sons and d-way.

Now I'm starting to look at others just to stretch the tax return further.

Anyone have one of the crown cryo 1.25 roughing gouge with the black handle that could give me some insight? Or even the standard model 231w I believe? They are not that much different in price.

thanks

I’m a Doug Thompson tool person and really like his tools. I’m not an everyday user of the spindle roughing gouge so I opted for the Crown 1.25 standard. The gouge has served me very well handling all the asks I ask of it. It was the right buy for me and my budget. Would buy again if needed.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Purchased 1” & 2” Bens Best srg’s ~11 yrs ago when I started turning. Still have and use them - some. Most of my projects start with a rough cut log or section of one, with bark on. I found srg’s dont like knots and twisty grain where branches were, having broken a tang on a 2” srg. For several years I’ve used a 5/8 bg to rough in logs to round, and will use an srg to smooth it up and do some shaping, if its fairy straight grain wood. I’ll use it on finish cuts upside down using the wing like a skew. I dont use it on face grain, only spindle grain. I could do without one. My bg can also make a nice slicing cut.

 

[Neil S]

Neil, can’t see your video it shows as private.

Thanks for pointing that out, Hockenbery.

You can see I'm not much of a YouTuber, I hadn't managed to publish it. Done now and should be visible.
.

 

[Neil S]

The catches with SRGs on bowls happen because people are trying to use the SRG in peeling cut mode, which is how they are used on spindles. That is the infamous Robbo video from years ago. The fatal mistake he makes is to extend way out off the tool rest, and then he raises the handle which causes the bevel to come off the wood and that sharp edge pointing up into the spinning wood provides a nasty catch.

Here is Ian Robbo's video where he intentionally sets out to get a catch on a crossgrain blank and does manage to get one that bites him...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhHeyoZLaY

.

 

[Timothy White]

I’ll put in my ideas. SRG’s are bent on spindles and the outside of bowls because they are hung too far our over the tool rest. The flat tangs break because they have been bent and straightened more than once and eventually they are bent one two many times and they break. The above comments are all right on. The round tang SRG’s are not known to bend or break. But a large blank spinning around 1000 RPM driven with a large spur drive can produce some spectacularly bad results.
Having said all of this The SRG is my favorite tool to use. I have an M2 3/4” and a 1-1/4 CPM10V DT SRG. my favorite is the one that’s the sharpest. And finally: @Dave Landers pointed out so eloquently at SWAT ”When one part of the edge gets dull just rotate it a bit and you have a fresh edge without re sharpening.

 

[Dean Center]

Ian Robbo's video is very dramatic and instructive, but I regularly see our high schoolers using a SRG to round off the corners of a cross grain blank with the tool rest parallel with the lathe axis, just like they would on a spindle project. They are shoving the wide open, flute up SRP directly, head on into the end grain. That's got to be even a worse catastrophe than what Robbo shows. As a result, in my very first, introduction to the lathe lessons, I tell them "Never, ever, ever, ever use a spindle roughing gouge on a bowl."

Having broken a scraper out of the hand, right at the nose on a lesser priced model, I can visualize he same thing happening with a SRG in end grain and the tool flying up into the turner's face. That's why I'm concerned about having a substantial amount of wood along with a substantial metal ring at the nose of the handles. From the picture, it looks like the Narex tool shown above has a good nose on it, compared to the one below. I don't want to criticize any particular brand, as there are many similar. This is a 1" SRG, which means the nose is maybe 5/8". With about 1/16-1/8 of that being brass, and with a 7/16" tang, the amount of wood at the corners of the tang is about 1/16-3/32". IMHO, this is just not sufficient for strength and safety.

 

[hockenbery]

This is a 1" SRG, which means the nose is maybe 5/8". With about 1/16-1/8 of that being brass, and with a 7/16" tang, the amount of wood at the corners of the tang is about 1/16-3/32". IMHO, this is just not sufficient for strength and safety.

Strengthening the tool doesn’t make it safer to use on bowls.
SRGs made from steel bars probably won’t break on a catastrophic catch.
So something else bad has to happen. Some more life threatening that a bent or broken tool.

When the wood drives onto a 1 1/4 SRG you have close to an inch round piece of wood inside the flute and the rest of the work outside and nothing stops the SRG from digging deeper except the pressure from the wood on both sides.
In an instant the tool is buried and locked to where it cannot lever free.

So Best out come is the motor shuts off before any of the issues below
2 nd best the belt slips and smokes
Tool bends or breaks
Bowl breaks loose
Fragment of bowl breaks loose.
Tool rest breaks
Banjo breaks

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Strengthening the tool doesn’t make it safer to use. SRGs made from steel bars probably won’t break on a catastrophic catch.
So something else bad has to happen. Some more life threatening that a bent or broken tool.

This!

 

[Lance Mirrer]

Just found a smaller P&N that also has round tang.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

If they can't ship, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do. Highland Hardwoods isn't far from me, and I've been meaning to make the trip out there to pick up some more short boards from their discount bin.

My narex 1 1/4 SRG and then what they are calling a super flute gouge is supposed to ship today or tomorrow. So much for impulse control......

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but I remember it hasn't been that long ago that I would blow over $100 in a bar and have nothing but a headache the next day to show for it. Rural area $2.50 beers so I don't sound like a light weight!

So sight unseen purchases don't scare me too much. (fingers crossed)

 

[Asher Langton]

My narex 1 1/4 SRG and then what they are calling a super flute gouge is supposed to ship today or tomorrow. So much for impulse control......

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but I remember it hasn't been that long ago that I would blow over $100 in a bar and have nothing but a headache the next day to show for it. Rural area $2.50 beers so I don't sound like a light weight!

So sight unseen purchases don't scare me too much. (fingers crossed)

All the Narex turning tools they had on display looked well made. My Narex SRG takes and holds an excellent edge, and the beech handle has a great feel. Let us know how you like the superflute gouge!

 

[Sam Fleisher]

All the Narex turning tools they had on display looked well made. My Narex SRG takes and holds an excellent edge, and the beech handle has a great feel. Let us know how you like the superflute gouge!

That's the thing, I'm not sure what a superflute gouge is! lol

I'm hoping it's just a different grind/flute on a bowl gouge.

 

[Asher Langton]

That's the thing, I'm not sure what a superflute gouge is! lol

I'm hoping it's just a different grind/flute on a bowl gouge.

Henry Taylor made the original "superflute" gouges, but — and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong — I think they're just elliptical/parabolic deep-fluted bowl gouges.

Diamic Gouges | Henry Taylor Tools

henrytaylortools.co.uk

 

[hockenbery]

I'm not sure what a superflute gouge is

I attached an article on the superflute
It is essentially a parabolic Flute that is great for the Ellsworth grind

 

[Asher Langton]

I attached an article on the superflute
It is essentially a parabolic Flute that is great for the Ellsworth grind

That's a great article, thanks for sharing!

 

[Sam Fleisher]

I attached an article on the superflute
It is essentially a parabolic Flute that is great for the Ellsworth grind

Do you have the next page that shows his grinds?

 

[hockenbery]

Do you have the next page that shows his grinds?

No it was on the web and that was link I didn’t follow

You might find it floating in cyberspace

 

[Barry Larson]

Do you have the next page that shows his grinds?

And here's the rest of the story.....

A personal view of bowl gouges

Cheers.
Barry W. Larson
Calgary, Alberta, Canada eh!

 

[Bill Blasic]

Hannes Tool sells a 1" BRG (Bowl Roughing Gouge). This tool was based on the Thompson SRG (Spindle Roughing Gouge) with the 3/4" tang. This is a wood mover and in recent years Hannes has added an adapter to the Vector Grind Fixture to sharpen this tool. This is a big tool that is very safe to use on fast removal of wood from a bowl. If I'm not going to core a piece I start with this gouge.

 

[Lance Mirrer]

Hannes Tool sells a 1" BRG (Bowl Roughing Gouge). This tool was based on the Thompson SRG (Spindle Roughing Gouge) with the 3/4" tang. This is a wood mover and in recent years Hannes has added an adapter to the Vector Grind Fixture to sharpen this tool. This is a big tool that is very safe to use on fast removal of wood from a bowl. If I'm not going to core a piece I start with this gouge.

Johannes will be at the Florida Woodturning Symposium this week. Hopefully I can look at one.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Exceptional customer service from the place selling the narex in new Hampshire. I received a picture of the tools they are sending.

Don't know how they are going to work yet but at a glance the one thing that looks good to me is the corners are smoothed off where the tang flares out to the top edge. The little Benjamin best I use now has sharp corners there and I don't know why I never seem to remember to grind them off before using it.

Looks like there's plenty of handle length. The superflute is definitely based on shape because it's not "super" long. But it wasn't super expensive either.

 

[Dean Center]

The superflute is definitely based on shape because it's not "super" long. But it wasn't super expensive either.

The usable length on that bowl gouge is miniscule. It appears the flute is only about 2.5" long!

 

[Sam Fleisher]

The usable length on that bowl gouge is miniscule. It appears the flute is only about 2.5" long!

Hopefully the SRG makes up for the inadequacy.

 

[hockenbery]

The superflute is definitely based on shape because it's not "super" long. But it wasn't super expensive either.

Looks worth a try
With shorter flute you get less vibration on a too heavy cut.
Handle - looks short for me. I often hold the handle against my hip or thigh.
I have one bowl gouge with a short handle.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Looks worth a try
With shorter flute you get less vibration on a too heavy cut.
Handle - looks short for me. I often hold the handle against my hip or thigh.
I have one bowl gouge with a short handle.

I have one of those..... let's call it a built in adapter that gives me lots of real estate to anchor a handle. So a short handle is not much of a problem.

 

[robo hippy]

I do know the Narex name from their bench chisels. Never knew they made turning tools, May have to check them out, even if I don't need more tools.... Their bench chisels always get good reviews, mostly about very high quality for a reasonable price.

robo hippy

 

[Doug Freeman]

I have a set of Narex bench chisels - they are a “value buy”. Info on their turning tools is sparse. I reckon the steel is good, its other design details, such as bowl gouge flute design and length, that needs elaboration.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

This is where I found the part numbers and contact for the distributor.

Woodturning Chisels | NAREX BYSTŘICE s.r.o.

Woodturning Chisels

www.narextools.cz

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Narex tools came a little bit ago.

I don't have anything to compare with other than a 7/8 Benjamin best SRG and this looks to be quite a few levels above that. I haven't turned anything yet but I'll head down to the shop and make some hedge apple smaller around and that should be a good test and update afterwards.

It came sharp and the little clear spots on it are whatever they coated the edge with to protect it. The first picture is the nice rounded corners. Second is the eased edge so it's not sharp. Nice touch. Third is tool length. Fourth I tried to get an end shot. And the tool with handle length is 25" The flute is 1 1/4".

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Here's the super flute gouge.
Looks to be 1/2 with a 3/8 flute. Overall length is 18 3/8"
Ferrules on both of them looked better than some I've seen. More finished looking. Both handles feel really nice too.

This bowl gouge is short but I'll try it out and see if I can scare myself.

 

[Doug Freeman]

The bg appears to be a U flute. Certainly not a parabolic. Typically U flutes are for bowl bottom gouges, and the short flute and tool length support that - makes for a stiffer “column” and less chance of vibration.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

The bg appears to be a U flute. Certainly not a parabolic. Typically U flutes are for bowl bottom gouges, and the short flute and tool length support that - makes for a stiffer “column” and less chance of vibration.

I wondered about it being for the bottom, but it looks nothing like the Thompson bottom bowl gouge I have (and don't use).

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Someone correct me if my thoughts are wrong but I'm thinking that a large SRG's purpose is like a larger scraper. Bigger cut for a straighter surface. Maybe?

Having never used a 1 1/4 roughing gouge before I maybe picked the wrong type of wood for the learning curve. It would hog off some wood but almost too aggressive. I think the steel was fine. I touched it up a couple of times but that's just me because I've seen a lot of stuff in the past about how people won't sharpen enough. Don't want to be accused of that......
It had a 42 degree bevel on it as I measure so I figure it's probably a 40 degree grind.

Pic is what I worked on. Hedge apple. Forgot to take a picture of what it looks like now. Maybe tomorrow when I finish it.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Someone correct me if my thoughts are wrong but I'm thinking that a large SRG's purpose is like a larger scraper. Bigger cut for a straighter surface. Maybe?

Purpose of the SRG is in the name Spindle roughing. NOT a scrapper. It also has the capability of doing other things and can smooth a spindle much like a skew can. The thing which has been pointed out is that the new round tang tools tools may eventually change the purpose and use of this tool.

 

[Sam Fleisher]

Purpose of the SRG is in the name Spindle roughing. NOT a scrapper. It also has the capability of doing other things and can smooth a spindle much like a skew can. The thing which has been pointed out is that the new round tang tools tools may eventually change the purpose and use of this tool.

You missed the point I was making.. I wasn't saying I was using it as a scraper.

A large SRG vs a small SRG has a similar outcome as a large scraPer vs a small scraPer within their intended uses. BETTER?

 

[hockenbery]

Bigger cut for a straighter surface. Maybe?

Practice with you new tool. Looks sweet. You wil see what it does.

It takes a bigger bite making faster smoothing to a cylinder easier.
Also the long parts of the U can be used to make a nice shearing cut

Here is the my SRG in a demo



I’m doing a pull cut here with a bowl gouge to smooth a cylinder. The straight part of SRG can make a similar cut.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, you do see a lot of people using SRGs more as a scraper than as a peeling type cut. Mostly just not being familiar with the tool and how best to use it. You generally cut on a tangent to the cylinder you are trying to make. Handle level = scraper. Handle dropped = peeling cut = tangent cut.

robo hippy