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Stabilization options/alternitives?

Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
66
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Location
Alaska
Website
www.tonyperelli.org
I want to stabilize a few small pieces of wood from time to time but don't want to get a vacuum pot and toaster system going for such occasional use. By small I'm thinking ring blank size and I want to use local wood, some if soft like cedar etc.

Are there any new ideas on this, new products that folks have found?
I read the pros/cons of the minwax product and am interested in the thinned epoxy process too but wanted to check in with the group here.

Ok, if the vacuum and heat is still the best solution, are there any diy options for vacuum pot? Mason jars?

I know this has been discussed before but the posts I found are pretty old...

Thanks for any thoughts!
 
Thin CA Glue can stabilize some pieces. What are you making?
 
Thanks Wyatt! - I'm making a few rings. It's not my main thing but friends and locals ask for them from time to time. I actually have one I started yesterday that I saturated in Thin CA. Will see how it turns out. Seems messy but I like that it's simple.
 
It sounds like you are not interested in replacing the air in the wood cells with a resin, just trying to make it firm. If that is the case, I agree the simplest way to go is thin CA glue. But be sure to let is have plenty of time to set down in the cells. If you don't, you'll be asking how to remove CA from your face.
 
It sounds like you are not interested in replacing the air in the wood cells with a resin, just trying to make it firm. If that is the case, I agree the simplest way to go is thin CA glue. But be sure to let is have plenty of time to set down in the cells. If you don't, you'll be asking how to remove CA from your face.
Thanks Richard, actually I like the idea of replacing the air in the wood cells I was just hoping there was a way to do it that doesn't include buying more shtuff, like the vacuum pot etc for a few occasional projects. I appreciate the flying CA warning!
Thanks!
 
For me the my whole process is based around amassing a huge wood pile that is airdried. So now I have air dried wood some of it is years old and it largest extent perhaps I had around 4 tons. So now I rarely turning anything green. The small stuff you mentioned are all off cuts and they live in a plastic milk crate at the end of the shop, periodically I go through it to clean out the chips out of it, dust ,swarf etc.
 
I would think that with small chunks of wood for rings and the like, a coat or two of Anchor Seal and put them away for a bit. Or paint up the end grain and throw them in a cardboard box. Put a date on them. Small off cuts will dry in reasonable order, but I like to coat the end grain.
You could wrap the chunk of wood in an old towel and let it sit for a few months.
 
Stabilization is about the only true way to completely impregnate the wood with something to stiffen it. There are plenty of people who do it as a service though. Glues and resins will only give shallow penetration which makes the surfaces harder, but still the core is the same as the base wood.
 
Thanks all! Helpful replies and it actually nudged me to just get some cactus juice and borrow a friends pressure pot to do a batch of blanks for these types of occasional projects.
 
If you have an old foodsaver you could theoretically use it to turn a mason jar into a miniature vacuum pot using one of these vacuum sealer kits...

I doubt the vacuum sealer will create enough vacuum to be very effective. Cheapest way I know to get good vacuum is to look for an hvac evacuation pump like mechanics use at a pawn shop used. Those things will make water boil at room temperature.
 
To get a complete stabilization, you must come as close to a true vacuum as possible. A food saver won't come remotely close to pulling air out of the cells of the wood.
I'm sure you are correct on this. However, the user is trying to stabilize small items like rings, and doesn't want to invest in a vacuum pot. It was just a suggestion, and I'm sure it works better than no vacuum at all.
 
Thanks Wyatt! - I'm making a few rings. It's not my main thing but friends and locals ask for them from time to time. I actually have one I started yesterday that I saturated in Thin CA. Will see how it turns out. Seems messy but I like that it's simple.

I'll second the CA glue, however go a bit farther and specifically recommend GluBoost Ultra Thin. The GREEN bottle. They have three commonly used for wood finish: Blue (thicker), Orange (Thin) and a newer product Green (Ultra Thin). You'll also want a bottle of their GluDry accelerator.

The reason I specifically recommend GB Ultra Thin, is it is super penetrating. I don't know of any other CA glue that is as thin as this, and nothing else seems to penetrate as well either. This stuff can go fairly deep. It will not totally saturate the wood, unless its fairly porous, but it will go I'd say most of a millimeter deep, maybe more depending on the wood and how well it wicks it up before you blast it GluDry.

I am curious about more details. Are you trying to stabilize the entire blank before turning, or would you, say, trim off corners and then start roughing, then start sealing? If you need to seal the whole blank, IMO, vacuum+heat is still probably best. I don't think epoxy is going to help as much, unless you could find something pretty thin so it wicks in. That's kind of the benefit of something like Cactus Juice is that as you suck the air out, its thin enough to flow right into the wood. I agree though, it can be a bit of a pain. I've used pentacryl in the past. I don't think I'd say that stuff really stabilizes, although I haven't had a ton of experience with it. The stuff I used was supposed to replace water, so that wood movement would slow or stop. It still seemed to remain "wet" though....

Anyway, for the GB ultra thin to work, you probably want to trim off the corners of your blanks, and using really sharp tools, make some initial cuts to get things fairly round. Then saturate with GBUT, give it some time to soak in, then a quick blast from GD. Do a bit more turning, and if you see you are turning through the sealed wood, re-seal those spots with more GBUT, let it penetrate, and quick blast with GD.

I've done this with a decent number of pens now that were made from either softer woods, or when I knew the barrel wood would end up quite thin over the brass tube. Final finishing was then, of course, done with GluBoost Thin (orange) and normal GluBoost (blue) if necessary. GluBoost is DESIGNED as a finish, so when you sand it well (wet stand is best, I generally prefer Zona paper but micromesh works too), and sand right down to the finest grit (1 micron with Zona), then polish and/or buff to eliminate patterned scratches, the final finish is glassy, brilliant and REALLY brings out the chatoyance. Should work just as well for rings as pens.
 
I'll second the CA glue, however go a bit farther and specifically recommend GluBoost Ultra Thin. The GREEN bottle. They have three commonly used for wood finish: Blue (thicker), Orange (Thin) and a newer product Green (Ultra Thin). You'll also want a bottle of their GluDry accelerator.

The reason I specifically recommend GB Ultra Thin, is it is super penetrating. I don't know of any other CA glue that is as thin as this, and nothing else seems to penetrate as well either. This stuff can go fairly deep. It will not totally saturate the wood, unless its fairly porous, but it will go I'd say most of a millimeter deep, maybe more depending on the wood and how well it wicks it up before you blast it GluDry.

I am curious about more details. Are you trying to stabilize the entire blank before turning, or would you, say, trim off corners and then start roughing, then start sealing? If you need to seal the whole blank, IMO, vacuum+heat is still probably best. I don't think epoxy is going to help as much, unless you could find something pretty thin so it wicks in. That's kind of the benefit of something like Cactus Juice is that as you suck the air out, its thin enough to flow right into the wood. I agree though, it can be a bit of a pain. I've used pentacryl in the past. I don't think I'd say that stuff really stabilizes, although I haven't had a ton of experience with it. The stuff I used was supposed to replace water, so that wood movement would slow or stop. It still seemed to remain "wet" though....

Anyway, for the GB ultra thin to work, you probably want to trim off the corners of your blanks, and using really sharp tools, make some initial cuts to get things fairly round. Then saturate with GBUT, give it some time to soak in, then a quick blast from GD. Do a bit more turning, and if you see you are turning through the sealed wood, re-seal those spots with more GBUT, let it penetrate, and quick blast with GD.

I've done this with a decent number of pens now that were made from either softer woods, or when I knew the barrel wood would end up quite thin over the brass tube. Final finishing was then, of course, done with GluBoost Thin (orange) and normal GluBoost (blue) if necessary. GluBoost is DESIGNED as a finish, so when you sand it well (wet stand is best, I generally prefer Zona paper but micromesh works too), and sand right down to the finest grit (1 micron with Zona), then polish and/or buff to eliminate patterned scratches, the final finish is glassy, brilliant and REALLY brings out the chatoyance. Should work just as well for rings as pens.
Thanks for this! Good questions. I'd like to stabilize a bunch of blanks so down the road when I'm asked to make a ring or something similar I can just whip one up.
 
Thanks all!
I appreciate all the info.
Taking all of this into account I asked around and found a friend willing to lend his vacuum pot, I have a pump I use for chucking and ordered a quart of cactus juice. I don't think I was going to feel satisfied with any of the alternatives. I'll stabilize a bunch of blanks for future use and when I need more I'll revisit purchasing a pot or doing another borrow.
Cheers!
 
Be sure to consider that you have to cover the wood with juice when you put it in the vac pot. So a larger pot will require more juice which (at least cactus juice ) is expensive. Last I bought was almost 100.00 a gallon and it has a shelf life.
You can put a small cup with the juice and blanks in the pot. No need to fill the whole pot.
 
Thanks all!
I appreciate all the info.
Taking all of this into account I asked around and found a friend willing to lend his vacuum pot, I have a pump I use for chucking and ordered a quart of cactus juice. I don't think I was going to feel satisfied with any of the alternatives. I'll stabilize a bunch of blanks for future use and when I need more I'll revisit purchasing a pot or doing another borrow.
Cheers!
Make sure your pump is capable of ~29 in/Mercury. You want it to pull as much as possible. CFMs isn't as important as it's ability to pull deep
 
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