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Tail Stock Alignment

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Recent surgery has restricted me to sitting at my Jet 10/15 VS lathe to turn smaller items. I've noticed the tail stock is a bit out of line with the head stock and there's some slop in the tail stock. If I twist it to the proper position, then tighten it's pretty good. Is that pretty much the way these smaller mini lathes work? I don't see any adjustments that I can make.
 

Dennis J Gooding

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As long as you are turning between centers, small misalignments should not matter if they don't change while turning.
 
Last edited:
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Thank you Dennis, I've heard that before. I'm making pens and have been told there are a lot of variables such as squareness of ends, tightness of bushings etc. that can cause slightly eccentric turning. Things seem to always involve several variables.
 
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My recollection is that the headstock on that lathe is held down with 4 allen head screws. If you loosen them, there is probably enough play to align with the tailstock. Then just tighten them back down.
 
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I have a laser alignment tool that I use on my lathes and milling machine. It is fairly common for many wood lathes to have some miss-alignment
between the headstock and tailstock. Some lathes align perfectly out of the crate, some vary with each tailstock that comes off the line. I have (3)
Jet clones of the same model, one has a perfect alignment the other two lathes have a slight miss-alignment between the headstock & tailstock.
If you have a lathe with a moveable headstock you might want to try adjusting the headstock to the tailstock after you rotate or move the headstock.
Put a spur drive in the headstock and a live-center in the tailstock, bring them together and move the headstock around until the points align and
then lock the headstock down.

They also make a Morse Taper alignment tool which is a double ended Morse Taper that fits into the headstock spindle & tailstock quill. This makes
it quick and easy to align the headstock to the tailstock and then you lock the headstock down after you align both ends with the tool.
 
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Not sure I understand the specifics but the following could resolve. First: ever boresighted a rifle? me neither but I read about it.
  • Buy a laser cartridge - costs $15 to $20 from any sporting good store
  • Mic the neck and get a same size drill bit
  • Mount a scrap of baltic birch to a faceplant and then drill through with the drill bit
  • Press the laser cartridge into the hole
  • Glue a scrap of baltic birch with four (4) screws - these are you left, right, up, down adjusters. I used a pipe-flange with short nipple which was dumb - took too much time.
  • Mount on the outboard end of the spindle - Turn on the laser and adjust until the laser-dot doesn't move on a wall maybe 25' away.
  • Mount the tailstock and live-center - if the laser-dot is on the point of the live-center, proceed to hug yourself. If not, you got some work to do.
20180121_.jpg


Y180121_17 Align Oneway.JPG


Y180121_17 Cartridge Laser.JPG
 
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Recent surgery has restricted me to sitting at my Jet 10/15 VS lathe to turn smaller items. I've noticed the tail stock is a bit out of line with the head stock and there's some slop in the tail stock. If I twist it to the proper position, then tighten it's pretty good. Is that pretty much the way these smaller mini lathes work? I don't see any adjustments that I can make.

I don't know which lathe you have, but I did have a small Delta where the tailstock was kind of a sloppy fit plus the tailstock was also not held very solid (it would slide back), so I decided to fix both, made a larger rectangular plate to keep the tailstock from moving, and I glued a brass shim on the foot so it was just a nice fit, the shim went around the ends so it would not hook when removing or installing the tailstock, a picture shows the tailstock with the new plate and the brass shim

Plate & brass shim added to tailstock.jpg

The biggest problem with pen turning is the live center not being the right shape, there are live center point for sale to have them fit properly so they do not move around in the pen mandrills end.
 
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Thank you Leo. I have a Jet 10/14. I too have a flat plate but am wondering about the brass shim. Is it on only one side of the piece that goes between the ways to hold it square?
 
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Not sure I understand the specifics but the following could resolve. First: ever boresighted a rifle? me neither but I read about it.
  • Buy a laser cartridge - costs $15 to $20 from any sporting good store
  • Mic the neck and get a same size drill bit
  • Mount a scrap of baltic birch to a faceplant and then drill through with the drill bit
  • Press the laser cartridge into the hole
  • Glue a scrap of baltic birch with four (4) screws - these are you left, right, up, down adjusters. I used a pipe-flange with short nipple which was dumb - took too much time.
  • Mount on the outboard end of the spindle - Turn on the laser and adjust until the laser-dot doesn't move on a wall maybe 25' away.
  • Mount the tailstock and live-center - if the laser-dot is on the point of the live-center, proceed to hug yourself. If not, you got some work to do.
Thanks John,

I would think the advantage of this method is you would be able to measure alignment throughout the full range of the tailstocks movement as it slides further away from the headstock.
 
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Thank you Leo. I have a Jet 10/14. I too have a flat plate but am wondering about the brass shim. Is it on only one side of the piece that goes between the ways to hold it square?

Sorry Dave, I did overlook that you have a Jet 10/15, I have one as well, does not get used much, one of my grand daughters has been learning to turn on it.

Yes the brash shim is on one side only, plus wrapping just around both ends, the tailstock did line up good when it sat straight, but for the sloppy fit it could be off some, of course I could have put thinner shim stock on both sides, though I did not think that half the thickness of the shim I used would make a noticeable difference.

Good luck and hope you heal up well.
 

john lucas

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First I would try aligning the headstock with the tailstock. After that if the tailstock still has too much slop take a center punch and punch a bunch of dots on the side of the part of the tailstock that goes bettween the ways. This will raise a crater around each dot and may take out the slop. If it's too tight file it slightly. You will have to figure out which side to punch or if it needs to be twisted you might punch the front end of one side and the rear of the other. I did this on my first lathe and got it dead on with very little slop in the tailstock.
 
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Recent surgery has restricted me to sitting at my Jet 10/15 VS lathe to turn smaller items. I've noticed the tail stock is a bit out of line with the head stock and there's some slop in the tail stock. If I twist it to the proper position, then tighten it's pretty good. Is that pretty much the way these smaller mini lathes work? I don't see any adjustments that I can make.
I had an issue with the tailstock on my Jet 1642 lathe. There was slop in the tailstock, so it would move and I couldn't rely on it's alignment.
So I drilled and tapped the alignment part and fit it with 4 brass socket screws, then adjusted them for a nice, snug fit.
It only took me about 15 years to get around to this fix, but my lathe is much improved for this.
 
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Thanks John,

I would think the advantage of this method is you would be able to measure alignment throughout the full range of the tailstocks movement as it slides further away from the headstock.
Yes and more. Let's say you're going into the poster bed business. A second lathe bed, not necessarily from the same mfg as the main lathe, could hold the tail-stock and some platform the steady-rest. Getting the lathe spindle and tail-stock shaft in perfect alignment makes the process more fun than having them mis-aligned. Then when things go wrong, as they always do, you have one less factor.
 
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Not sure I understand the specifics but the following could resolve. First: ever boresighted a rifle? me neither but I read about it.
  • Buy a laser cartridge - costs $15 to $20 from any sporting good store
I'm no expert at gunsmithing, though I have bore sighted a few rifles, but actual experts seem to think the cartridge laser type of bore sights are inaccurate.

There are more expensive laser bore sights that are considered to be reliable, so your basic method could still work. One common style is a slender rod with an enlarging tapered cone ending in a larger cylinder. The rod is small enough to go in rifles down to .243, maybe .223, and the tapered part seats in larger calibers up to .45, maybe larger. It's likely these would fit snugly into a #1 Morse taper, but maybe not an MT2. It could be gripped in pin jaws or maybe by the slides on a chuck, but then you're adding another source of error.
p_100003194_4.jpg
 
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I'm no expert at gunsmithing, though I have bore sighted a few rifles, but actual experts seem to think the cartridge laser type of bore sights are inaccurate.

There are more expensive laser bore sights that are considered to be reliable, so your basic method could still work. One common style is a slender rod with an enlarging tapered cone ending in a larger cylinder. The rod is small enough to go in rifles down to .243, maybe .223, and the tapered part seats in larger calibers up to .45, maybe larger. It's likely these would fit snugly into a #1 Morse taper, but maybe not an MT2. It could be gripped in pin jaws or maybe by the slides on a chuck, but then you're adding another source of error.
p_100003194_4.jpg
I agree. However, with the adjusters and a little tweaking while hand-turning the spindle 360-degrees, those inaccuracies are overcome.
For truing a lathe (tailstock/live-center), the laser gizmo would be mounted outboard and shine through the hollow spindle. If adjusted to projecting a "stationary point" on a distant wall when the spindle is turned 360-degrees, by definition, it is true to the spindle. If that same laser point is on the live center point, again by definition, it has to be perfect.
Of course, if the tail-stock spindle in not "on axis" with the head-stock spindle, the only way to true is to remove the live-center and then shine the laser down the tail-stock spindle - a bit of tissue paper could then determine if the laser is centered.
Moderation is for monks. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing to excess. If the meek inherit the earth, what's going to happen to all us tigers?
 
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I'm totally at a loss to understand why it seems so important to have the centers aligned on a wood lathe. What difference in your work does it make if the centers aren't aligned? Gross misalignment could speak to the overall build quality of the machine.

A metal lathe is totally different issue, misalignment will result in flawed work.
 
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I'm totally at a loss to understand why it seems so important to have the centers aligned on a wood lathe. What difference in your work does it make if the centers aren't aligned? Gross misalignment could speak to the overall build quality of the machine.

A metal lathe is totally different issue, misalignment will result in flawed work.
I drill on my lathe, so proper alignment is crucial for that. And with spindle work, if the tailstock/headstock alignment changes as you move the tailstock, that a PITA to compensate for.
 
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It becomes more important to me when I'm exchanging mounts. I usually do this using a chuck adapter on the TS and pass the piece from the HS chuck to the TS chuck. So it's nice if things line up pretty well. But, yes, I agree, this is not a situation that calls for a micrometer.
 

Dave Landers

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I'm totally at a loss to understand why it seems so important to have the centers aligned on a wood lathe. What difference in your work does it make if the centers aren't aligned? Gross misalignment could speak to the overall build quality of the machine.

A metal lathe is totally different issue, misalignment will result in flawed work.
A few examples:

I start bowls and hollow forms between centers, and create a tenon. The tenon will be created relative to the axis between the head- and tailstock. Then I flip it around and mount it in a chuck, which mounts relative to the headstock axis alone. If they aren't the same, then there'll be wobble and I have to re-true things.

If you ever move your tailstock (either sliding it or advancing the quill), and it's not aligned, then the axis you are turning on will move.

If you drill with a drill bit in the tailstock, it needs to move along the same axis as the piece is rotating or you can't drill a straight/clean hole.
 
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start bowls and hollow forms between centers, and create a tenon. The tenon will be created relative to the axis between the head- and tailstock. Then I flip it around and mount it in a chuck, which mounts relative to the headstock axis alone. If they aren't the same, then there'll be wobble and I have to re-true things.
Dave, not sure I follow your reasoning.

I'm assuming your turn the hollow form outside body contour with the blank mounted between centers. Then without removing the blank you turn the tenon which should make the tenon perfectly concentric with the body contour. Then you mount the work piece in a chuck using the concentric tenon. In a perfect world chuck-wise the work should not have any wobble even if the tailstock was off center. We're talking wood lathe chucks which are a joke to even consider them accurate, not to mention the the chuck is closing on a non-homogenous material.

I agree about drilling not being ideal with an offset center. In metal machining we use spotting drills to start a hole. The stiff spotting drill will create a centered taper hole even with a bit of offset. The follow on drills will center on the taper sometimes flexing a bit as they drill. Not ideal, but we're talking woodworking not rocket building.
 
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Dave, not sure I follow your reasoning.
In a perfect world chuck-wise the work should not have any wobble even if the tailstock was off center.
You'd think so, but I have found from experience that is not the case - you are still changing the axis of rotation and tenon is gripped on the outer diameter, not the axis itself, so if your axis is off between centers, it is gonna be off when chucked to the tenon, and the bowl , or whatever other form, is gonna wobble - more so on a longer (think vase form) than on a bowl and when you go to turn the inside of the bowl or form, even a very minor variation (couple thousandths of an inch of wobble) very quickly becomes obvious to the eye due to varying wall thicknesses, which then would have to be re-trued to the new axis. I know, because my el-cheapo harbor freight lathe is decidedly "loose" in tolerances, so I have to take extra time to line up my tailstock (and mounting of the blank) to compensate for those alignment problems (which are only exacerbated by runout of less than .001" on the headstock and tailstock bearings.. I suffer through it while trying to save up for the first, last, and only new lathe I ever buy, hopefully- rather than buy a cheap-but-better lathe to serve the interim) On the other hand, learning to turn on such a lathe does develop my patience and tool control (because if I try to take too big a shaving, runout causes blank to become out of round and bounce around again forcing me to re-true again and again)
 
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If you can manage a shim under the headstock to get your tailstock aligned this will save you headaches from losing a shim you might have
on your tailstock which gets moved a lot and removed from the lathe at times. If you do put a shim on the tail-stock you can glue it on to
the bottom of the tailstock so it stays in place and does not get lost.
 
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I could set the wood lathe tailstock over an inch and still turn a straight spindle, as we do turn with handheld tools and can adjust where and how far the tools are held to turn.

A little off alignment of the tailstock does not affect turning unless the tailstock and headstock are very close together, like in turning a disk or platter, then there is a problem.

Any more distance and that does not affect the normal turning of spindles, now drilling can be affected, but often the wood and grain are more of a problem than the mis-alignment of the tailstock.

If I have to drill a hole that has to be nicely entered on my wood lathe, I will start with a center drill also called spotting drill, it will start a good starting hole for the regular drill to follow.

wood lathes are not metal lathes and do not have to be aligned like then as the turning tools are just handheld and not attached to the lathe in a rigid manner.

Center drills.jpg
 

john lucas

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I will often just start a hole using the toe of my skew to countersink an area for the drill bit. Of course this only works if the work is held in a chuck or faceplate.
 
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I have also seen these called drill point countersink bits. They are a great tool for accurately starting a hole.
Actually these are single purpose drills, only meant for creating a 60 degree hole for a center point. Mostly they're used in metal working. The small ones are especially tricky because the short, small diameter tips break off easily. The smaller ones should only be used in aligned tailstocks.

The proper tool for creating starting holes is a spotting drill. Spotting drills are stiff bits that work even in unaligned tailstocks.

If the purpose of drilling in a wood lathe is to quickly remove lots of material, as opposed to an accurate hole, tailstock alignment is not critical. Some types of wood bits work better than others with offset tailstocks.
 
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Leo's suggestion of an extreme 1" tailstock off set is correct, it's not an issue in hand turning. This has taken on a life of itself, it's a non-problem looking for a solution. A clever marketer of woodturning gizmos might even make some money selling a device to measure tailstock offset.

If those who firmly believe tailstock offset is causing their turning issues were to put down their tools and really think hard about it they might have a great "aha moment".
 

Dennis J Gooding

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The effect of tailstock misalignment depends how one turns the the tenons on the ends of the workpiece. If one mounts the wood between centers and cuts tenons on both ends of the wood, the bearing faces of the tenons will not be perpendicular to the desired spin axis and if ether workpiece is mounted in a chuck the other end will whip.
Alternatively, if the piece is mounted between centers, a tenon is turned on one end, this tenon is mounted in chuck, and a tenon is turned on the other end without tailstock support, the faces will both be perpendicular to the spin axis and either end can be chucked. Therefore, if the subsequent turning can be completed without tailstock support, small tailstock misalinements will not be an issue
 
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