The wood spoke to me - not nicely

[Ed Brekke]

We all have the experience of being 3/4 or more through a bowl and "crack" or even worse "ejection". Having experienced both, I know the feeling. Yesterday, my first time turning Elm (we do not have elm trees in San Diego), I was about 3/4 the way through, and crack. You can see the photo below. My first reaction was one or two mild expletives, then a momentary feeling of defeat, then I stepped back and pulled a beverage out of my mini-fridge, sat down on my shop stool and tried to figure out what I did wrong and what should I do next. I am not going to throw this piece out. I am not going to try and glue it back together. I could trying make a shallower bowl. But, as providence would have it, this past Friday my mail carrier of the last ten years, and with whom I speak at least three days a week, asked me if I could make him an ashtray for his cigars. Apparently, he has a weekend ritual where he relaxes and smokes one or two big fat cigars. When he mentioned that to me at the time I thought that was a questionable project since wood is, after all, flammable. But after some research, I discovered that there is a product called "Fire Guard" which you can use to coat the wood and it is extremely flame resistant. So, I have ordered some Fire Guard from Amazon, and sometime this week I will finish making an ashtray.

Question 1: have any of you used Fire Guard on a wood project? Did it work and did it change the look of the wood?

Question 2: In June, will be flying up to MPLS/StPaul to visit my brother and we are going to the AAW Symposium on Saturday. I will stay the following week and turn wood at my brothers place in Minnetonka. He has a barn, two lathes and lots of different types of wood. Are any of you going to be at the Symposium?

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Is this the product you ordered?

Amazon.com

If so, the NFPA 701 reference it claims to comply with is for fire retardent fabrics and films (or treatments for fabrics and films), and quite likely not as a surface treatment for wood. Doesn't mean you can't try it, but fire retardant and fireproof are two different things. It may be meaningless if applied to a film finish ashtray. It is water soluable and meant to dry within fabrics. Here is the intro website to NFPA for Standard 701. You will find other sites giving more detail than this one, but you'll get the point.

NFPA 701 Standard Development

Stay informed and participate in the standards development process for NFPA 701

www.nfpa.org

Here's a boxelder maple cigar ashtray I made for a friend, the only ashtray I ever made (except probably the 1970s school art class ceramic ashtray for Mom and Dad). He's put dozens of cigars through it, and I don't think there are any scorch marks. But I deliberately made a very wide rim (at least 1 inch wide) for a cigar to balance on without the burning end touching the bowl. Just cold ash will land inside the bowl, if the ash is tapped into the bowl. I think the overall diameter was about 8", and the thickness of the bowl overall left very thick for heft and stability. Finished with a few coats of wiping poly. I either used a round rasp, or 60-grit on a dowel, to cut in the grooves on the rim.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Not to mention most if not all tobacco pipes are briar wood, (or ebony or other woods, in fact I made a home made pipe for me from a scrap of maple and a dowel through which I drilled a hole..) Not a single problem -solid wood is a bit harder to set afire (even using a pipe lighter) than most tobacco or ash is going to give trouble for... Wood DUST and shavings, on the other hand can very quickly come alight from even a tiny spark... go figure...

 

[Darryl Fective]

Interesting question. I wonder about charring (and maybe burnishing) it instead of a chemical coating. (you woundn't want to add unhealthy toxins to cigars... )

 

[John K Jordan]

I was about 3/4 the way through, and crack.

I had an interesting crack once. I was making one of my “squarish” pieces from sugar maple, turned the base and outside, then stopped the lathe and walked across the shop to get something. Suddenly, a loud “CRACK” sound! Apparently thinning the wood allowed internal stress to release. I salvaged the piece by turning away the wings and made it into a shallow bowl. No further surprises.

JKJ

 

[Tim Connell]

Years ago, a haunted house I helped run with local boy scout troop was forced to start using spray on fire retardant. Don't know the brand name, but had to spray it on all non metal surfaces. It left everything sticky (and remained sticky), and was blotchy, with water spots on unfinished wood. I wouldn't use it.

You might get scorch marks, but I'm not sure you could ignite a wood ash tray with a cigar - unless that was your sole intention and you worked hard at it.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Another thing to ponder with your piece (so far) is how to empty the ash. I like the undercut rim, but it will impede getting the ash out.

 

[Walter Mooney]

Ed,
You could get a somewhat fire retardant finish within the ‘bowl’ and also produce a great color and finish difference to the inside by doing a ‘shou sugi ban’ treatment to it. It would be kinda like “fighting fire with fire”

 

[Ed Brekke]

Another thing to ponder with your piece (so far) is how to empty the ash. I like the undercut rim, but it will impede getting the ash out.

Very good point!

Is this the product you ordered?

Amazon.com

If so, the NFPA 701 reference it claims to comply with is for fire retardent fabrics and films (or treatments for fabrics and films), and quite likely not as a surface treatment for wood. Doesn't mean you can't try it, but fire retardant and fireproof are two different things. It may be meaningless if applied to a film finish ashtray. It is water soluable and meant to dry within fabrics. Here is the intro website to NFPA for Standard 701. You will find other sites giving more detail than this one, but you'll get the point.

NFPA 701 Standard Development

Stay informed and participate in the standards development process for NFPA 701

www.nfpa.org

Here's a boxelder maple cigar ashtray I made for a friend, the only ashtray I ever made (except probably the 1970s school art class ceramic ashtray for Mom and Dad). He's put dozens of cigars through it, and I don't think there are any scorch marks. But I deliberately made a very wide rim (at least 1 inch wide) for a cigar to balance on without the burning end touching the bowl. Just cold ash will land inside the bowl, if the ash is tapped into the bowl. I think the overall diameter was about 8", and the thickness of the bowl overall left very thick for heft and stability. Finished with a few coats of wiping poly. I either used a round rasp, or 60-grit on a dowel, to cut in the grooves on the rim.
View attachment 74089

Very good information, thank you.

 

[James McCall]

Another easy option might be just putting some sand in the bottom as a fire retardent

 

[Kent Reisdorph]

We all have the experience of being 3/4 or more through a bowl and "crack" or even worse "ejection". Having experienced both, I know the feeling. Yesterday, my first time turning Elm (we do not have elm trees in San Diego), I was about 3/4 the way through, and crack. You can see the photo below. My first reaction was one or two mild expletives, then a momentary feeling of defeat, then I stepped back and pulled a beverage out of my mini-fridge, sat down on my shop stool and tried to figure out what I did wrong and what should I do next. I am not going to throw this piece out. I am not going to try and glue it back together. I could trying make a shallower bowl. But, as providence would have it, this past Friday my mail carrier of the last ten years, and with whom I speak at least three days a week, asked me if I could make him an ashtray for his cigars. Apparently, he has a weekend ritual where he relaxes and smokes one or two big fat cigars. When he mentioned that to me at the time I thought that was a questionable project since wood is, after all, flammable. But after some research, I discovered that there is a product called "Fire Guard" which you can use to coat the wood and it is extremely flame resistant. So, I have ordered some Fire Guard from Amazon, and sometime this week I will finish making an ashtray.

Question 1: have any of you used Fire Guard on a wood project? Did it work and did it change the look of the wood?

Question 2: In June, will be flying up to MPLS/StPaul to visit my brother and we are going to the AAW Symposium on Saturday. I will stay the following week and turn wood at my brothers place in Minnetonka. He has a barn, two lathes and lots of different types of wood. Are any of you going to be at the Symposium?

I had planned on going to the Symposium, but I have a family event that weekend.

It would be very difficult for a cigar to light an ashtray on fire. There simply isn't enough heat there.