Threading machines

[robo hippy]

I just did a demo for our local club, and it covered the Baxter Threading set up. It was strange getting ready for a demo that I had not done before. I didn't go to the swimming pool at all this week, and it took maybe 5 times the prep time that my other demos take. Lots of little 'things' to cover. I guess what I am looking for is input on the other threading jigs, one from Chef's Ware (?), and the Hope, or New Hope set up. I started with the Bonnie Klein set up, and stuck with that idea. The thing that turned me off with the other 2 set ups is that in order to get your cutter lined up square/parallel, you have to use a square to line up the banjo. Seemed very inefficient to me. I do like to do things in batches, so for me, that is lots of waste blocks using the 1 x 8tpi locking nuts epoxied into a waste block, and a bunch of waste blocks in varying sizes to screw the bottoms into so I can finish turn the bottoms.

Comments??? Oh, video coming before too long, and yes, it has been too long since I have put up any new videos....

robo hippy

 

[Kalia Kliban]

I'll look forward to your video. I picked up an old, good-condition Bonnie Klein mini-lathe a couple years ago and gradually tracked down the components for doing threading on it. Then suddenly life got busy and hasn't let up since, so I haven't had the time to settle in and learn how to use it.

 

[Hugh]

Reed,
Let us know when you put the video out......please.

 

[GRJensen]

Robo ... I have the ChefWare Kits jig. It does the job, but the achilles heel is the need to use a square or some type of jig to line the cutter up with the banjo and bedways. If anybody has a sure-fire way to do that, I'm all ears (and eyes)!

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you do enough threading on a regular basis it makes sense to set up a permanent threading station. I still have a Klein threading setup somewhere in the shop but have been using the Baxter threaders on several of my lathes. I still have a couple of the Carbatec threading jigs with the different
thread pitch spindle sets for turning different threads that I had setup on a couple of smaller lathes when I was making PGI tools full time.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have 2 Baxter threaders the latest being the BTM 12.5 which I sent back to Victor (Best Wood Tools) to make it into the BTM 12.5X (For the fast acting auxiliary slide which he did perfectly). The other is the BTM 17. As stated before I have used or seen used the others and there is no comparison. The Baxter is the easiest to setup and go and the absolute best construction for exacting use. I did a video on it awhile back and parts are like a monkey and a football but its use came across. When my second eye surgery tomorrow is done I will be remaking the Baxter video using both on different lathes. If the Turning 2023 takes place I will demo the Baxter at Best Wood Tool's booth each day.

 

[Jeff Jackson]

I just did a demo for our local club, and it covered the Baxter Threading set up. It was strange getting ready for a demo that I had not done before. I didn't go to the swimming pool at all this week, and it took maybe 5 times the prep time that my other demos take. Lots of little 'things' to cover. I guess what I am looking for is input on the other threading jigs, one from Chef's Ware (?), and the Hope, or New Hope set up. I started with the Bonnie Klein set up, and stuck with that idea. The thing that turned me off with the other 2 set ups is that in order to get your cutter lined up square/parallel, you have to use a square to line up the banjo. Seemed very inefficient to me. I do like to do things in batches, so for me, that is lots of waste blocks using the 1 x 8tpi locking nuts epoxied into a waste block, and a bunch of waste blocks in varying sizes to screw the bottoms into so I can finish turn the bottoms.

Comments??? Oh, video coming before too long, and yes, it has been too long since I have put up any new videos....

robo hippy

I've been using the Chefwarekit's jig for a few years now. To line it up I just visually line the spindle of the jig with the ways of the lathe looking down from above it. Never had an issue doing it that way.

 

[Richard Aldrich]

Have had the carbatec, chefware kits and the baxter. Have not used Bonnies or the hope.

Baxter is the only way to go. No square needed. The stop between the bed ways make multiple passes with the jig possible.

If you plan to use it more than once....buy the baxter. gave the other two away I was so happy with the baxter.

 

[john lucas]

I have the Baxter jig, the very early Chefwarekits jig, a homemade jig using a cross slide vice and a new jig I'm working on and will writed an article if it works successfully. I have my Baxter jig set up on a home made lathe that I build using angle iron and a router for the headstock. I did this because I sold the mini lathe it went on and rather than have Vic build me an adaptor I simply built the lathe. It works great because I can simply take it with me to do demos and it's always sitting there waiting for me to thread something.
The Chefwarekit I have always just lined it up by eye to the bed ways. It's not as precise as the Baxter but I've found that I have always cut a successful thread. Your only cutting 3/8" or so of thread most of the time so it would really have to be off to cause enough of a taper to cause problems. Wood movement cause more problems with threads than a tapered thread as long as it's not too tapered. I played around with tapered threads once using my hand chasers just to see what the problems would be. YOu have to taper them a lot more than you think. Really tapered is kind of kool because you can drop the male thread into the tapered female thread and then with just a few quick twists lock up the lid.
My homemade cross slide jig is not as accurate as either of the other two but I don't think anyone removing the lid from my boxes could tell which jig I use. My newest version is super easy to build and simple to use but I simply haven't had the time to really test it out to find out how good or bad it really is.

 

[robo hippy]

If I had not had the class with Bonnie, I would have been at a total loss for using the Baxter set up for doing boxes where I want the grain to line up. Their 'instructions' are very lacking, which is part of why I will be doing a video. I had thought that the Chef Ware kit used to pivot straight up so you could check your fit. I did discover a video where some one got a 'cheap tool store' machinest X/Y jig, used some nut and 16 tpi all thread rod to make his own threading jig. The Hope set up, I think, pivots up at a 45 degree angle for checking your threads. I am amazed that some one hasn't come out with a 90 degree jig that would attach to the banjo (screws, magnets, or track), so you would not have to square things up every time you use it. It might have to be able to slide for going from lid/recess to bottom/tenon.

I did figure out how to 'time' the threads so you only have to adjust the shoulder for 5 or so minutes every time. I use a pencil line on both top and bottom for where I want the grain to line up. I use a 'stop block' idea, which is a piece of wood just under 1/8 inch thick. Mount the lid/recess in the jig and slide into position for cutting with the pencil line at 12 o'clock, and use the shim stick to measure the starting point. Make sure the jig is flat on the tool rest! Cut the threads. When cutting the tenon/bottom, I have the pencil line at about 10:30 or hour hand half way between 10 and 11. This leaves, at most 1/4 turn or 15 minutes of rotation/adjusting to get the grain to line up. I could do it to a closer degree, but figure I need room for 'error'.... This is for 16 tpi. It should work for all X/Y jig set ups, and you will have to use some thing a bit different, I guess, if you are using different tpi, but maybe not. It also allows you to remount either piece if you screw up your threads, at least if your pencil line is still in place. No measuring or eyeballing to see if the thread and cutter match.

I am a believer in having the tenon and recess wall being perfectly parallel. I use a 6 inch steel rule to line up against either or both surfaces, and then eyeball that to see how well it lines up with the lathe bed. I have heard a couple of people say that the cutter will make the threads perfectly parallel, but when checking out the boxes of those that say it can be done, their threads do not 'grip' equally all the way down. They slip over a couple of threads, before they grab.

robo hippy

 

[robo hippy]

Oh, one other thing I figured out, it is a huge time saver if you have 2 lathes to turn boxes on. Leave the thread cutter set up on one lathe and do all the turning on the other lathe....

robo hippy

 

[Bill Blasic]

If you are making a box with a grain match you do it the same way as you made a box without threads. First cut to match grain then cut threads, the threads have nothing to do with the where the two pieces bottom out unless you cut the threads too shallow. Cut them long and the wood meets where you cut them to. There is no big learning curve using the Baxter, all you need to know is the depth of cut for each of the different threading heads. Like the 16 tpi is .070 thousands, If the female thread area is 2" before threading the Male thread size before cutting should be 2.070". Each piece takes of .035 on a side which is a breeze with the Baxter as the wheel is marked very accurately by thousands of an inch.

 

[robo hippy]

Not sure what you are getting at Bill. For boxes without threads, you just twist the lid till top and bottom line up. I don't consider bottoming out with the cutter to be an issue. Where I start cutting the threads is the issue, so there is less work to be done for perfect grain alignment. I use .06 for the difference between recess and tenon threads. Seems like when I advance the cutter to get threads to full depth, it takes 3 or 4 'advances' of 7 or more points on the dial. Still figuring it out. Only 30 or so boxes on it thus far... Bonnie's wheel/crank was also clearly numbered.

Saw a video on the Hope system last night. He was threading sycamore, and he cut the threads full depth after flooding the surface with thin CA glue, cut the threads, more CA glue, then a final pass. Box had to be at least 2 inch diameter. I won't make mine that big because they can move so much the lid won't come off.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Blasic]

Chuckle, you're right Reed. I don't make boxes anymore that aren't threaded and confusing the audience. Just so you know I take the .035 in two cuts, .020 the first cut and .015 the second cut. Speed is your friend and with bigger diameter boxes the male is cut a little less deep. As far as grain match start with a line between the two pieces where you have grain match and since the Baxter needs no adjustment for cutting straight with the line top center move the piece to the cutter and start there after tightening the metal stop. do the same with the second piece and make all adjustments with second piece. A second lathe here is also your friend.

 

[robo hippy]

Most of my experience was with the Bonnie Klein set up. While the cutter is supposed to cut things dead parallel. that did not seem to always work unless the faces that were being cut were dead parallel. Getting the grain to line up is an art, and NRSs in the form of a skew are really nice. Getting the guess work out of 'timing' the threads saves a lot of work. That is the whole point about the pencil lines. The instructions from Baxter were about turning an acorn, with a maple bottom and a walnut top. You don't have to line up the grain on a piece like that. With a piece of wood, like maybe zebra wood, if you have the grain within 1/4 or less of a turn every time, that really helps.

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Lining up the grain is easy. You simply remove a little wood from the face of the turning until the grain matches. With a 16tpi thread. 1/16 of an inch will let you rotate 360 degree. 1/32 = 180 degrees etc.

 

[robo hippy]

By using the stop block method, at most, I am having to adjust the shoulder enough for about 1/4 to 1/8 rotation/turn. No more full 1/16 inch adjustments. That used to drive me nuts! Oh yea, "No need to drive me crazy, I am close enough to walk!"..... Using a skew as a NRS makes that fine tuning a much simpler job.

robo hippy

 

[Gord Cameron]

I am planning to get the Baxter jig and am curious about Bill's comment that a second lathe is "your friend" with this jig (or perhaps any threading jig). Is it tedious to mount and unmount the jig when you only have one lathe? What would be the required features of the second lathe? Presumably it would be a mini lathe, but the question for me would be whether it it is useful to have (electronically) variable speed or any other features. (BTW, I don't see Reed's video yet...)

 

[GRJensen]

I'll answer part of your question: "Is it tedious to mount and unmount the jig when you only have one lathe?" It is not necessarily tedious, but I have found that if I am working on a one-off piece, it is actually faster for me to hand-chase threads. By the time I get my jig set up and calibrated, I can get threads done with the hand chasers. The jig comes in handy when I need multiples (e.g. several sets of threaded inserts to be installed in urns, boxes, etc.). Both of my lathes are EVS, and my jig (Chefware Kits) installs on both.

 

[robo hippy]

It is a bit of a pain to take the thread cutter and jig on and off the lathe. Having a second lathe to do all the turning on as well as a lathe to keep the thread cutting set up on is really handy. Doing one box at a time is not efficient. I do batches of 5 or more. I do have a bunch of waste blocks that I use for my boxes. I use the locking type nuts, 1 by 8 tpi. You cut out the plastic with a scraper, and I do seat the nut in a chuck and true up the face or part that will go up against the headstock so there is no wobble. A standard nut isn't deep enough to seat against the headstock, but I guess a spacer block like many use on screw chucks could work. The nuts are seated with 30 minute 2 part epoxy that I put in a syringe, mix, and then squirt into the drilled holes in the waste blocks. I also have a bunch of waste blocks that are threaded for finish cutting the bottoms of the boxes. This allows me to do batches, and have many pieces ready and waiting. I have yet to attempt Eric Lofstrom's 6 month method for my threaded boxes, but that could go a long way for turning boxes over about 1 1/2 inch diameter, which I don't like to do because some of them seem to move well after the wood should be settled down.

robo hippy

 

[Mike Johnson]

If you don't have a 2nd lathe to use, many box makers have setup a table top jig with a router and cutting bit set up to cut the threads with a spindle setup with a crank handle to rotate the box and lid mounted on an adjustable chuck.

 

[Darryl Fective]

I've been considering making my own setup. I'm thinking a 1" x 8 threaded rod and a couple nuts could work and a chuck could just thread right onto it. Would 8tpi be too steep of a pitch for urns/boxes? Most threads seem too fine to me.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Here’s a diy threading setup using an HF x-slide vice. Looks to be as good as commercial versions IMO.

View: https://youtu.be/oAcgfq_WthM