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To snug lid

S

Sheldon Gerber

Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
25
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15
Location
Lanark, ON
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I turned this lidded bowl today. Since I applied the beeswax mineral oil finish the lid is quite snug. I would like that the lid still fits with that almost "pop" fit but not that it lifts the bowl off when lifting on the lid. Any suggestions how to slightly loosen this but not to loose? I'm afraid if I sand itll become too loose.
 
This is just my guess, but from the grain orientation I think either the lid, bowl, or both are warping out of round slightly. If the lid fit well prior to applying the beeswax oil finish, it should still fit unless there's been some movement in the wood. Give it a week or so with the lid OFF and then recheck the fit. It will probably get worse. Even with the best of dry woods it's hard to get a face grain bowl and lid to keep a good fit. If you leave the lid on while it warps you may never get it off.
 
Yeah, similar to Curt's advice, I find sometimes after fitting a lid, then it gets finish on it, the wood fibers expand a bit after absorbing finish, then after the piece sits for a couple months (or humidity changes) the lid becomes looser, then sometimes it tightens back up again.. with two dis-similar woods , you're going to get different rates of expansion, so what fits perfectly one month may be too tight or too loose the next month - Wood moves, simple as that.
 
With a lidded bowl, where the bowl and lid are turned face grain orientation, the wood will move with the seasons. It'll be snugger sometimes and looser sometimes. A pop or snap fit just isn't going to work with the wood oriented in this way. Since the end users prefer to open such pieces one-handed, a looser fit works out just fine. If you want a snug fit, turn a box with an end grain orientation.

As for your current piece, I agree with Curt and Brian-- give things a little time, then sand carefully. I start with 400 grit until I get frustrated with the slow progress and switch to 320. (If I'm especially impatient, I'll end up using 220 for a while and regretting it;)) The fine paper takes wood off slowly enough that it's harder to overshoot.
 
Beeswax/mineral oil offers little to no resistance to moisture moving in and out of the wood, allowing the greatest dimensional change seasonally. While face grain will always move some, a different finish will reduce the moisture movement rate, providing more dimensional stability. A little loose is better than a 2-handed forced removal. Some fine sanding will fix it right up.
 
You could try some steel wool and lightly clean the inner rim of the bowl until the lid fits properly.
If the lid becomes too loose, you can always apply another coat of finish to the lid or bowl or both to get a tighter fit.
 
Sheldon Gerber said:
the lid still fits with that almost "pop" fit but not that it lifts the bowl off when lifting on the lid.
Click to expand...
To me, a "pop fit" needs two hands to open, so I don't see how you can have a pop fit that doesn't "lift the bowl". That's a nice bowl with lid, and in use, it would seem to me you wouldn't want the bowl to lift at all when removing the top. As in lift the top with one hand while retrieving M&M's with the other. If, while lifting the lid, the bowl came with it, even an inch, it might then fall to the counter with a clatter spilling M&M's and giving away the less then stealthy M&M eater...
To fix a too tight lid, I would wait a few days for the wood to acclimate, then put the lid on and off a few times and see if, under strong light, you can see some burnish marks. These I would sand (judiciously) with some 400 or 600 grit paper. Just on the burnish marks. It does not take a lot, usually just one or two back and forths, then test and repeat. I think you will find that the fit changes with the seasons and you might have to tweak the fit at a later date.
 
There are very few wood species that will maintain a close fit and side grain or end grain will have the same tendency go oval as the humidity changes with the seasons. The one way that I have found to minimize the oval effect in end grain pieces is to turn with the pith in the center so that the annual rings are continuous at the opening, however the wood will still expand and contract with the seasons.
 
Well, any box over about 1 inch diameter, can move enough so that removing the lid can be a problem. If you keep it at your home, in the area where you turned it, it is less of a problem. If you move to a drier environment, it can move enough to create problems. If you use two different wood species, you can also run into more problems because the woods may/will move differently according to relative humidity. I do make some over sized boxes, 5 or so inch diameter. I prefer a long tenon, like about 1/2 inch, and always make it from one piece. It can move, but the base and lid should move the same amount, which means you might not be able to spin it all the way around, but it 'should' still be easy to remove the lid... Emphasis on 'should'....

robo hippy
 
Thanks for all your replies
I remounted the bowl and just took a light cut to loosen it up. It ended up being almost a little to loose for my liking. But fast forward to today it is a litte snug again but not as tight as the first time... So obviously the wood is moving. Will just have to wait and see what happens.
 
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