Tool for bowls with turned in rim

[Mike Novak]

I’m starting to turn bowls with turned in rims, like a calabash or More. My main tools for this are 40/40 and Ellsworth grind bowl gouges, and round nose scraper to get the part the gouges can’t. I’m not super happy with how well this works. I found thru searching that either a bottom feeder gouge or hunter badger seem popular for this.

Before I invest in another tool, I’d like to hear what you use, and why?

Thanks!

 

[Doug Freeman]

For the under cut rim I use a 40/40 (with a narrow bevel, heal ground down) and then a 1/2” wide nrs with a curve. The nrs can can tilted up for a shearing cut, moving towards the rim.

I have also used hollowing tools - small flat topped carbide cutter rotated ~45 deg, pulled to the rim. Also have the 45 deg cupped cutter that came with my Jamieson hollowing rig that works well, but I havent rigged up a way to use it hand held.

A higher bevel angle BG makes it more difficult, the handle can hit the opposite rim.

@john lucas has a video I think on utube demonstrating a Hunter tool for that cut. Its more or less the same as the cutter setup for the Jamieson rig.

 

[Mike Novak]

I have been using the 40/40 under the rim, the Ellsworth on the bottom, and the round nose scraper for the part I can’t hit with either. I should also mention I’m turning wet wood, and most of what I find is prone to tear out, like oak or elm.

I will look for that John Lucas video.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Is the scraper flat top or negative rake?

 

[Kirk Amidon]

How much of an overhang on the lip can one manage to do with a gouge before "needing" (Ha!) a specialized tool?

 

[Mike Novak]

My scraper is flat top. Here is a picture of an example

 

[Mike Novak]

Not happy with the scraper due to tear out. I do hold it handle up and at 45deg to simulate shear scrape with nrs

 

[robo hippy]

A scraper, flat on the tool rest generally does not leave a good surface in bowls on the walls, though they do a fair job on the bottom of the bowl. I prefer a shear scrape, and have one video dedicated to that. I prefer a burnished burr to the grinder burr. The NRS can do a slightly better job than a standard scraper, but that depends a lot on the wood. Softer woods, not so good. Harder woods, much better.

The bowl you show above has a lot of under cut. With a push cut, you are cutting against the grain. Almost impossible to do a pull cut inside that. This is where a pull cut with a shear scraper can excel. Handle low to keep you working on the low side of the cutting edge, which will help prevent catches.

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

How much of an overhang on the lip can one manage to do with a gouge before "needing" (Ha!) a specialized tool?

Jimmy Clewes Does a spherical footless bowl in some of his classes.
Turn a 8” sphere. Cut the top 1/4 or 1/3 off and hollow it.

For hollowing the students use a 1/4” bowl gouge(3/8 bar) with traditional grind.
This tool is resharpened several times changing the bevel from 35 -> 40 -> 50
Easy to change the bevel on te small tool.
Then the students use a 1/2” bowl gouges 60 and 80 for the remainder of the hollowing.

Great project that teaches the student about bevel angle need to hollow through a restricted opening.

 

[odie]

My definitions of "inward slanted walls", and "undercut rim" may be different than some others here.
(I am not trying to get others to change their definitions, but these are mine.)


This is an undercut rim:

The undercut rim has an internal surface that is, or is close to parallel with the top surface where it meets the rim. It can be accomplished with a series of gouges, graduating from 5/8" shaft to a 1/2", and then 3/8 shaft. These gouges will have a double bevel for clearance through the internal curve. The final step is done with a 1/2" scraper (not NR) ground to a curve on the left side and used in an extreme shear mode right up where the inside is near parallel with the top surface, and meets the tip of the rim. It takes a bit of practice, because the final finished surface needs to be as well done as the rest of the bowl. (Art connoisseurs will notice if it isn't, and they can be very critical of your craftsmanship, if it's not!)

This is an inward slanted wall:

The inward slanted wall is much easier to do, and has one continuous less intimidating graduating curve from the rim to the center of the bowl bottom. It's done with a 5/8" or 1/2" shaft gouge, and the entire surface can be done all the way from the tip of the rim to the center of the bowl bottom. This also takes some practice, but the main tip I can give, is to learn to rotate the gouge on it's longitudinal axis during the cut. A couple repositionings of the tool rest may be necessary. (Sometimes extending your gouge off the tool rest is unavoidable, but I like to keep the extension to a minimum.....for better overall control.)

-----odie-----

 

[Doug Freeman]

Not happy with the scraper due to tear out. I do hold it handle up and at 45deg to simulate shear scrape with nrs

As Robo said, try it with the handle down, cutting above center. You won't be fighting the edge trying to dig in. Even with the edge tilted 45 deg, a flat top is more aggressive vs nrs. Try an nrs, rotated ~45 deg. cutting above center, and see what you think. Hear is the john Lucas video for undercutting with a hunter tool:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98c71j8hgjM

 

[odie]

@Doug Freeman .... Do you have a web site, or somewhere your turnings can be viewed?

-----odie-----

 

[Kirk Amidon]

Odie - thanks for the defintions and pictures, made it really easy to see what you describe. Beautiful work, too.

 

[Mike Novak]

seems like the consensus I am hearing is that I’m using the right tools, but need to make some adjustments to the tools and how I use them.

I never put a secondary bevel on my gouges, so I will grind that in. Hopefully then I can reduce the need for the scraper. Plus some more practice as suggested by Hockenberry.

I do have a scraper ground on the side as you suggest Odie. I’ll try that with the techniques suggested by you and Robo. I also have one I can convert to NRS.

 

[Doug Freeman]

@Doug Freeman .... Do you have a web site, or somewhere your turnings can be viewed?

-----odie-----

Unfortunately not yet

 

[odie]

Unfortunately not yet

If you have a cell phone with a camera, it would be easy to instantly start an AAW album right here on the member's "Photo Gallery".

Hope you don't mind my asking about your turnings, but I know I'm not the only one who is curious to see the results of those who frequently give input and advice on these forums.

-----odie-----

 

[Clifton C]

odie, I hone off the grinder burr and turn a small burr with a hand held burnishing tool (just my modus operandi). At one time you were experimenting with the Veritas scraper burnisher. Is it still a tool you use? If it went "Poof" and disappeared, would you buy a new one?

 

[odie]

odie, I hone off the grinder burr and turn a small burr with a hand held burnishing tool (just my modus operandi). At one time you were experimenting with the Veritas scraper burnisher. Is it still a tool you use? If it went "Poof" and disappeared, would you buy a new one?

Howdy Clifton.....

Yes, I'm frequently using the Veritas burnisher with the carbide pin. It makes a finer bur than the ground bur left from sharpening a scraper at the grinder. I still use the ground bur, too. There is a time and purpose for each type of bur.

To answer your question......yep, I'd buy another Veritas burnisher if these two were "poofed" !

 

[Doug Freeman]

If you have a cell phone with a camera, it would be easy to instantly start an AAW album right here on the member's "Photo Gallery".

Hope you don't mind my asking about your turnings, but I know I'm not the only one who is curious to see the results of those who frequently give input and advice on these forums.

-----odie-----

I have pics to post. I just havent got a

I need to do so. I still work, turn, ride motorcycles, fly fish, get to the gym, etc etc. Its on the to do list.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Mike that is a nice looking bowl.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I just havent got a

Doug, do you know where I can find some of those round tuits?

 

[Lou Jacobs]

I haven’t seen these before, it a quick google search turned up a bunch

 

[Tim Tucker]

Doug, do you know where I can find some of those round tuits?

Bill - I do ...They in my wife's purse. Immediately to the left of the bullwhip, and to the right of the tazer. I she has to do is smile and show me the contents the purse - and I manage to get " around to it - rapido..."