tool rests

[Max Taylor]

I am planning to weld up some tool rests of 1 in. cold rolled steel round bar stock. Ran into a question when I was told by an experienced turner that I shouldnt do that. He said that the round stock held the tool another half in. from the work. Is that half in. too much of a disparity to have good control of the cutting tool? I see them advertised in my mail-order suppliers. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. Max

 

[MichaelMouse]

He's correct, of course. Most original equipment rests slant back so you can work slightly above center on convex and below on concave and have short tool distance when turning. You're sacrificing a half inch or more, depending on the upward angle you put on the tool with a round rest. I think most use rod for aftermarket because they are less likely to heat and warp than flat metal.

There's an advantage to having a sloped top in that you can modify the grind of your tools to get more support than a cylinder on a cylinder gives.

 

[Tom Lewis]

You may get a lot of different opinions on this question. It's true that you do loose some distance between the tool rest and the wood by using a round tool rest. I use both. I have made several tool rests out of round stock, and find them very useful.

 

[KenN]

Tom,

I've used both and agree totally with MM. In addition, a sloped rest allows a variety of hand positions for greater control which are near impossible on a round rest.

The eternal caveat, however: If it works for what you need to do......

 

[john lucas]

I have both also. For most turning you often have the tool hanging over the tool rest further than you should, most of us don't adjust the tool rest every second. I find the round tool rests really nice for spindles because I use my fingers as a steady and I can reach around them better.
Ideally the tool rest should be as close as possible without getting the bevel of the tool on the rest. For that reason the factory rests are pretty good but I have 2 round ones and I like them a lot. The only time the distance between the round bar and work comes in to play is with my really small spindle gouges.
I just looked at the tool rests for the new Robust lathes. I may buy one to see how they work. They have a 1" shank. They are 1/4 of a round pipe. This way they sit really close to the work and they curve away far enough to keep the work from hitting the banjo. I liked this design.

 

[Richard Baker]

Max,
Might try some 3/8 x 1 bar stock for the "rest". Grind small flat on the post and weld. Or grind an angle into the post so the bar stock will extend further from the post. Should have thought of that when I made mine.

 

[Wilford Bickel]

I welded up mine from 1" cold roll just as you are planning and love them. I have no problems with the closeness to the work but I do adjust my rests frequently to keep them close. In fact I like my round ones so much that I have virtually quit using the factory type.

Every catalog I receive has some version of a round rest available - the distance from the work must not be too much of a problem if they sell that many manufactured round!

 

[Bill Boehme]

I am planning to weld up some tool rests of 1 in. cold rolled steel round bar stock. Ran into a question when I was told by an experienced turner that I shouldnt do that. He said that the round stock held the tool another half in. from the work. Is that half in. too much of a disparity to have good control of the cutting tool? I see them advertised in my mail-order suppliers. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. Max

Max,

I think that it would be better to use solid steel rod for the post and rest than the cold rolled resistance welded tubular product that you are considering. If I remember correctly, cold rolled products are annealed to allow forming (such as stretching and bending) without becoming work hardened.

If you can find some SS, I would be interested in building a rest to use when turning green mesquite -- it is really rough on my iron tool rest -- first, it turns purple, then black as the mesquite juices corrode it.

Bill

 

[woodwish]

Seems like we bring this topic back up every month or so, the old sloped vs. round tool rests debate. All I personally use are the 3/4" round tool rests from Best Tools, which are functionally about what you are trying to make. I have no problems with the theoretical 3/8" gap it make no difference to me, so I think the 1" would be fine. When I use other lathes with the original sloped tool rest I find them awkward.

Bottom line is that you have to use what works for you. I read comments on here all the time why round tool rests don't work, but the aftermarket companies sure sell a bunch of them and others make a bunch themselves. You'll get used to whatever you work with, tool rests just don't seem to be that big of deal compared to things like sharp tools, lathe speed, type of wood, etc. Make'em, you'll love'em!

 

[john lucas]

this is what I have made for my mini lathe and I will probably make something similar for my big lathe. By grinding the front edge instead of the top edge you get an edge that is closer to the work. This works extremely well for small tools but I think if you used large tools the steel would have to be partially hardened to keep the small surface area from dinging.
I use drill rod for my tool rests. The size is more accurate so it fits the banjo better and the steel is harder so it makes a better top surface. The down side is cutting the stuff. It takes forever to cut through a 1" bar by hand. Fortunately I found an antique powered hacksaw at the flea mkt last year. I love to watch it work, it's like a big arm moving the saw back and forth. The best part is I can start the cut and then just walk away.

 

[Bill Grumbine]

I use round rests almost exclusively now. I have the angle rest that came with my Vega, and it sees some use, and I have some home made ones with the Poolewood, and they see occasional use as well, but far and away the round rests are on the lathe. They are much more versatile for adjusting the angle of the tool as well as your hand, and they are great for getting close when inside a piece.

Bill

 

[john lucas]

I should mention that there is one really big advantage to round tool rests. I have one that is mounted off center. It's a www.bestwoodtools.com tool rest. You can flip it 180 and use it both ways. This one has about 3" on one side of the center and 6 on the other. It is by far my most used tool rest.

 

[DaveL]

I have a round rest and the standard slant rest, and use both of them about the same. I had a friend make the round rest for me so i could stick it father into vessels for boring bar support.

If you make you own make sure the tool post is 90 degrees to the tool rest bar, the one my buddy made angles down at the tip which forces me to adjust it up and down as if move towards the tip.

Dave

 

[Hugh]

I have not made any yet...but I plan to. But, I think I would use drill rod as it is harder and has a better finish than cold rolled steel. I believe it withstands corrosion better also (this for Bill). Check out www.use-enco.com and they sell drill rod the cheapest. I use a 4 1/2 surface grinder with a cut off wheel to cut the drill rod. Much easier than a hacksaw (unless you have a hacksaw like John's). I have an article pinned to the wall showing a double bar on the top of a post to create a more flat tool rest for hollowing. I need to make one of those also. There never seems to be enough time to get all these projects done. My wife keeps coming up with other stuff (than turning) for me to do.
Hugh

 

[pencheff]

The stock rest that came with my Jet 1642 is about four feet long (well it seems that way) so I bought into the Sorby "modular rest" system and got a 1" post and one each of the 4", 6" and 9" crossbars, a curved bowl rest and a flat scraper platform. Okay, right, they're "modular" but I got tired of changing bars and ended up buying a post for each crossbar. Nice scam.

The solid steel doesn't nick like the cast iron stock rest... at least not so far. I just give 'em a buff with a scotchbrite pad before use. For most everything I'm able to do I like the round crossbar a lot.

The only complaint I have about them could be a limitation of the Jet banjo. Without the overhang provided by the angled rest I can't get in nice and close on very thin turnings like goblet stems, top stems, thin finials, etc. The banjo won't taxi up that close.

 

[MichaelMouse]

The only complaint I have about them could be a limitation of the Jet banjo. Without the overhang provided by the angled rest I can't get in nice and close on very thin turnings like goblet stems, top stems, thin finials, etc. The banjo won't taxi up that close.

That would be true with a round rest as well, unless you were willing to set the rest below centerline. The post and rest would define the same plane, a problem I had with round rests. One other worth noting is that as you drop the tool handle, the tool rides farther with a round rest as opposed to an angled one. I was doubtful about my 3000 rest, with the large drop angle, as opposed to my old Delta, where I had modified the angle of the grind on a few of the tools so I could rest it on the entire flat area and gain another point of certainty, but I got used to it. With the tools I use for different tasks, the handles stay up pretty high, even when cutting above centerline on convex work.

Won't part with my curved iron rest, either, though I've sold the round one.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Of all of the tool rest shapes that I have tried, I like the Delta the best. It is one of the few that seem to have designed with a lot of forethought -- the only problem, though, is that the new ones that I have seen recently appear to have gone through a lot of "value engineering". The finish was crummy -- really poor quality sand casting with lots of voids and blobs along with evidence that it was not done as a smooth continuous pour. And the worst part is that the post wasn't really machined very well because the casting was too small to turn a smooth post. One that I ordered by mail from Delta looked as though the post had been knurled as a fix for an undersized diameter.

Bill

 

[john lucas]

Bill I like the shape of the upper part of my Powermatic tool rests but the lower part where it connects to the tool post sticks up too far and gets in the way of the tool for some operations. I'm sure this was partly to make the tool rest extend past the banjo as mentioned above. However I had to grind some of it off and it's still too big. The upper part is sloped and lets the tool ride quite nicely. The groove under the uppper edge is really nice for riding your fingers on when turning spindles however the lumb at the tool post gets in the way for this. That's why I like the Robust tool rest. It seems to have solved this lump problem.

 

[Martin Braun]

...That's why I like the Robust tool rest. It seems to have solved this lump problem.

I checked out the Robust website, and that rest definitely looks better than the standard rest my 3520A came with. Which model PM do you have?

I emailed Deb for details on their rest. If it looks like it has good clearance for an underhand grip, then I will definitely consider getting one. $44 doesn't seem to bad a price either.

 

[john lucas]

Martin I have the 3520. The underhand grip is the only thing this rest might be bad for. Boy that's a lousy sentence. If you have large hands it might work well but I have shorter hands and I don't think I can reach under it very well. I only use the underhand grip for smaller items and in that case my other tool rests would work fine. I didn't measure the tool post length to see if it would work. If anything I think it would be too long since it's a 25" swing but cutting it down shouldn't be a problem.

 

[TurningDog]

I am planning to weld up some tool rests of 1 in. cold rolled steel round bar stock. Ran into a question when I was told by an experienced turner that I shouldnt do that. He said that the round stock held the tool another half in. from the work. Is that half in. too much of a disparity to have good control of the cutting tool? I see them advertised in my mail-order suppliers. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated. Max

Most the reasons people give for saying you should avoid round bar rests in my opinion are nothing but crap from people to set in their ways to change. A round bar rest requires a slightly different style and position than you are used to no doubt and taks some getting used to, but that makes it no worse than a single angle flat rest. Unless you are dealing with cheap incredibly flexible tools and already use the tool rest right up on the piece isn't going to make any difference in how well you turn, though it may take some getting used to having the rest in a different position or the fulcrum back another 1/2" I use nothing but round bar rests these days simply because I had to make a choice of using one or the other, trying to go back and forth between the two made me less productive. For me the choice was obvious, the round bars had more versatility. When I started out with round rests I had bought a sorby interchangeable model with posts for all my lathes. When I realized how expensive and lack of options I started to make my own. Since I already had the posts and my welding skills leave a lot to be desired, I bought a HSS bit and tap ($8 on ebay delivered from sheffield england). Now it is shape the rest, grind a flat spot, drill, tap and add to the collection.