I have watched countless people on TV drill holes into endgrain with thier gouges (while lathe is running) opposed to using drill attachments with traditional bits. You know how you drill out center for clearing out bowls, boxes and sort well I am tired of creating extra steps by attaching drill attatchment when I know that my gouge could do the same thing. I have tried deep winged fingernails and blunt end general purpose (60 degree) angle gouges. Nothing works- YES THE TOOLS ARE Sharp (80 Grit wheel) Hamlet 2060 brand gouges. HELP.....
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Trying to Drill with my gouge into endgrain
- Thread starter Kenny
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I have watched countless people on TV drill holes into endgrain with thier gouges (while lathe is running) opposed to using drill attachments with traditional bits. You know how you drill out center for clearing out bowls, boxes and sort well I am tired of creating extra steps by attaching drill attatchment when I know that my gouge could do the same thing. I have tried deep winged fingernails and blunt end general purpose (60 degree) angle gouges. Nothing works- YES THE TOOLS ARE Sharp (80 Grit wheel) Hamlet 2060 brand gouges. HELP.....- Joined
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Ray Key to the rescue
Kenny,
Ray Key grinds away some of the right hand side of a 3/8" or 1/2" spindle gouge and uses it to hollow out endgrain very effectively. You can almost see this in the modified gouges pictured in the Craft Supplies catalog. This is explained in his box-turning videos.
I have used the Ray key gouges and I seem to remember turning the tool so that the ground away portion is on or near the top. This means that the left portion of the flute is essentially flat or parallel to the ways of the lathe. You start the cut with the tool angled away from the centerline of the lathe and then move it to that position as you enter the endgrain. You move the tool to optimize the cut. You don't just poke it into the center.
When done correctly, this is a very efficient method of beginning the hollowing process.
By coincidence, I am planning on making a box or two tomorrow. I'll try to analyze this cut and report back to you. My new threading jig arrived today from Best Wood Tools and it is calling out to me to test it.
Kenny,
Ray Key grinds away some of the right hand side of a 3/8" or 1/2" spindle gouge and uses it to hollow out endgrain very effectively. You can almost see this in the modified gouges pictured in the Craft Supplies catalog. This is explained in his box-turning videos.
I have used the Ray key gouges and I seem to remember turning the tool so that the ground away portion is on or near the top. This means that the left portion of the flute is essentially flat or parallel to the ways of the lathe. You start the cut with the tool angled away from the centerline of the lathe and then move it to that position as you enter the endgrain. You move the tool to optimize the cut. You don't just poke it into the center.
When done correctly, this is a very efficient method of beginning the hollowing process.
By coincidence, I am planning on making a box or two tomorrow. I'll try to analyze this cut and report back to you. My new threading jig arrived today from Best Wood Tools and it is calling out to me to test it.
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Kenny,
SWMBO said that there would be a delay before supper, so I went back out to the shop and put a piece of scrap mahogany into the chuck. I took my two Ray Key grind gouges and made test cuts. My conclusions:
1. Put a center mark with a skew or parting tool tip in the endgrain to serve as a starting point.
2. Orient the gouge so that the left part of the flute and the flat ground portion are at equal angles with the vertical. This meant that the left inside flute was dropped at about 15 degrees.
3. Start with the tool about 15 degrees to the left of the centerline, which will mean that the tip of the tool will engage the wood, and there will be an angle between the wood and the edge of the flute.
4. Start the cut and as it begins to enter the wood, straighten the tool out and apply pressure towards the headstock.
5. This should allow you to penetrate an inch or more. Hollow some out and then go deeper. I would not try to get 3 or 4 inches deep this way. You may bind the tool and have to take drastic measures to extract it.
SWMBO said that there would be a delay before supper, so I went back out to the shop and put a piece of scrap mahogany into the chuck. I took my two Ray Key grind gouges and made test cuts. My conclusions:
1. Put a center mark with a skew or parting tool tip in the endgrain to serve as a starting point.
2. Orient the gouge so that the left part of the flute and the flat ground portion are at equal angles with the vertical. This meant that the left inside flute was dropped at about 15 degrees.
3. Start with the tool about 15 degrees to the left of the centerline, which will mean that the tip of the tool will engage the wood, and there will be an angle between the wood and the edge of the flute.
4. Start the cut and as it begins to enter the wood, straighten the tool out and apply pressure towards the headstock.
5. This should allow you to penetrate an inch or more. Hollow some out and then go deeper. I would not try to get 3 or 4 inches deep this way. You may bind the tool and have to take drastic measures to extract it.
Gotta say, Kenny, I'm personally a huge fan of my Jacob's chuck with the #2 morse taper and my fostner bits. I also have a 1/2 inch twist bit mounted in a long handle that I can use for depth setting holes. If you start them out centered (cut a tiny center hole with your gouge first), twist bits tend to true themselves nicely. I've heard that brad points work even better.
For ease of making a depth hole or starting a hollow, spend the 10$ on a nice 1/2 inch twist bit with a 1/4 shank, mount it in a length of hollow stock or just a handle, and you have a very quick drill setup that doesn't require any fancy manuevering or changing of parts on the lathe.
IMHO,
dietrich
For ease of making a depth hole or starting a hollow, spend the 10$ on a nice 1/2 inch twist bit with a 1/4 shank, mount it in a length of hollow stock or just a handle, and you have a very quick drill setup that doesn't require any fancy manuevering or changing of parts on the lathe.
IMHO,
dietrich
Wiggle It
Hi Kenny,
I picked up the technique from the book Woodturning: A Foundation Course (New Edition) by Keith Rowley, but I must admit I never did quite understand his "Clock" position instructions, but what I've come up with is real close to what I understand Ed to be saying. The only thing I would add to his very precise instruction is that I use a spindle gouge (usually ground well back) and once I find the right orientation I wiggle it back and forth almost as if making repeated passes at the bottom of a very skinny bowl. (I believe Mr. Rowley also used the "W" word in his book.) I also withdraw the gough to clear the shavings as needed.
I've also tried the morse taper drill bit approach, but prefer the gouge because of all the cranking, uncranking, and moving of the tailstock.
I've also not had much luck with long twist drills. I have trouble hanging on, and they tend to get stuck in the hole. Maybe I'll see a demo some day that will turn the light on for me.
Hope this helps.
Rick
The older I get the better I was.
Hi Kenny,
I picked up the technique from the book Woodturning: A Foundation Course (New Edition) by Keith Rowley, but I must admit I never did quite understand his "Clock" position instructions, but what I've come up with is real close to what I understand Ed to be saying. The only thing I would add to his very precise instruction is that I use a spindle gouge (usually ground well back) and once I find the right orientation I wiggle it back and forth almost as if making repeated passes at the bottom of a very skinny bowl. (I believe Mr. Rowley also used the "W" word in his book.) I also withdraw the gough to clear the shavings as needed.
I've also tried the morse taper drill bit approach, but prefer the gouge because of all the cranking, uncranking, and moving of the tailstock.
I've also not had much luck with long twist drills. I have trouble hanging on, and they tend to get stuck in the hole. Maybe I'll see a demo some day that will turn the light on for me.
Hope this helps.
Rick
The older I get the better I was.
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Kenny,
Since I wrote the twp posts above I have had occasion to hollow out several endgrain boxes -- as I try to get the best numbers for a threaded box. As may have been noticed in a thread I started.
I took my favorite 3/8" spindle gouge (no unusual grind) and did exactly as I said, and Rick indicated in his post. I started about 15 degrees from the centerline and began a cut at the center. I "wiggled" the gouge to get the cut I wanted and then pushed the gouge toward the headstock, more or less along the centerline. I extracted the gouge and widened the opening and repeated the first step. It worked without difficulty. The gouge was approximately faced straight up or slightly to the left as I began the cuts. But the attitude changed as the tool was manipulated from side to side, possibly rotating to the left so as to optimize the cut
The so-called "wiggling" is to keep the hole wider than the shaft of the tool and avoid binding. This process is not just using the spindle gouge as a substitute for a a hand-held drill. The hole that results from this approach is about 1 1/2 times the size of the shaft -- or more.
Since I wrote the twp posts above I have had occasion to hollow out several endgrain boxes -- as I try to get the best numbers for a threaded box.
As may have been noticed in a thread I started. I took my favorite 3/8" spindle gouge (no unusual grind) and did exactly as I said, and Rick indicated in his post. I started about 15 degrees from the centerline and began a cut at the center. I "wiggled" the gouge to get the cut I wanted and then pushed the gouge toward the headstock, more or less along the centerline. I extracted the gouge and widened the opening and repeated the first step. It worked without difficulty. The gouge was approximately faced straight up or slightly to the left as I began the cuts. But the attitude changed as the tool was manipulated from side to side, possibly rotating to the left so as to optimize the cut
The so-called "wiggling" is to keep the hole wider than the shaft of the tool and avoid binding. This process is not just using the spindle gouge as a substitute for a a hand-held drill. The hole that results from this approach is about 1 1/2 times the size of the shaft -- or more.
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Tool Rest Height to Put Point of Gouge at CL
Spot on, Ed...
...and I just remembered when I did it today that we never mentioned height which could be a problem for someone who hadn't yet succeeded with their first hole... The point of the gough needs to be real close to centerline height if not right on it. An easy point to forget since it is natural once you do it a few times.
Rick
Spot on, Ed...
...and I just remembered when I did it today that we never mentioned height which could be a problem for someone who hadn't yet succeeded with their first hole... The point of the gough needs to be real close to centerline height if not right on it. An easy point to forget since it is natural once you do it a few times.
Rick
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Tool rest height
When using the 3/8" gouge to "drill" the rest should be at least 1/4" below the centerline. If it is higher you run the risk of binding the shaft against the rest.
Look at it this way -- a 3/8" rod in a chuck on the lathe would require 3/16" below it. And you would want some clearance for the tool when turning. Actually, the tool is not against the rest a lot of the time this operation is being performed.
I was conscious of technique today when I drilled out the base of a box. As noted before, I start with the tool on the left about 15 degrees and use the point of the tool and the left side to begin the process. After the start, the tool spends most of the time on the right of the centerline as the left side engages the wood. But a side-to-side motion keeps the process going.
When using the 3/8" gouge to "drill" the rest should be at least 1/4" below the centerline. If it is higher you run the risk of binding the shaft against the rest.
Look at it this way -- a 3/8" rod in a chuck on the lathe would require 3/16" below it. And you would want some clearance for the tool when turning. Actually, the tool is not against the rest a lot of the time this operation is being performed.
I was conscious of technique today when I drilled out the base of a box. As noted before, I start with the tool on the left about 15 degrees and use the point of the tool and the left side to begin the process. After the start, the tool spends most of the time on the right of the centerline as the left side engages the wood. But a side-to-side motion keeps the process going.