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Urgent Safety Notice from Record Power
- Thread starter Greg Norman
- Start date
Wow that’s crazy. The headstock can come off the lathe with enough vibration from the turning. That’s catastrophic.
That is beyond crazy and catastrophic! Can you imagine that happening to a turner? Wow, I'm glad they caught it before anybody got badly hurt. Are those lathes available in the USA?
I do not mean for my comment to be seen as critical of anyone's choices of lathes....
When I saw the Record Power line - I thought is looked...lightweight for the capacity. And the design harkened back to the industrial designs of the 1930's when all things needed to be beautiful - flowing lines etc....
Hope they get this fixed fast for all of their customers, and do not damage tier own reputation much. We need manufacturers who continue to offer all levels of product value so as to meet each turner's needs.
When I saw the Record Power line - I thought is looked...lightweight for the capacity. And the design harkened back to the industrial designs of the 1930's when all things needed to be beautiful - flowing lines etc....
Hope they get this fixed fast for all of their customers, and do not damage tier own reputation much. We need manufacturers who continue to offer all levels of product value so as to meet each turner's needs.
I believe I’ve seen a couple of people in the us on the forums recently chose this as there new lathe.
Your right Tim. You see the robust and Oneway lathes at 800 + lbs and then the other expensive setups at 300 lbs. that’s a huge weight difference for something spinning the same weight of wood.
A single weld is a poor choice of securing a critical attachment point for a rotating piece of equipment. Most other manufacturers utilize a threaded and machined connection for a headstock attachment to a lathe of that type. Any weld good or bad can create a weak point for the metal to fail over time from the stresses applied to the welds and adjoining metals.
There is always a reason , most times that is, why a tool is cheaper than another tool. It is usually too things, cheaper manufacturing techniques and cheaper materials, or a cult following allowing a huge price. We won’t mention Festool. But your so right. A weld is a connection an average person can’t check or see. And can fail over time through vibration. And if a single weld is the way a headstock is held, that’s not good engineering or manufacturing. Not the best place to save money on a critical connection. It’s good now they are manufacturing a secondary bolt connection to prevent a catistrophic failure. No mask or foot is going to survive a headstock coming off at 2,400 rpm with a chunk of wood attached.
Yup, a simple weld most likely cut a $100.00 of machining labor and fastener costs from the production of the machine. A poor quality weld and litigation from an accident could get expensive for them in the long run.
There is a lot of "weld bashing" going on here. There's nothing wrong with using weldments if the proper base materials are selected, if the welding procedures are properly implemented, and the proper non destructive, NDE, testing is used to verify the weld integrity.
A bad design, is simply that.
A bad weld, is simply that.
Many companies simply steal others designs, and then don't do the due diligence to research materials, proper weld procedures or proper NDE.
It seems many Americans don't care about stolen designs. Look how many people shop at Harbor Freight.
A stolen design, is simply that.
Is that the case here? I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is do your own due diligence before buying a product.... and this issue runs a lot deeper than a "bad weld".
A bad design, is simply that.
A bad weld, is simply that.
Many companies simply steal others designs, and then don't do the due diligence to research materials, proper weld procedures or proper NDE.
It seems many Americans don't care about stolen designs. Look how many people shop at Harbor Freight.
A stolen design, is simply that.
Is that the case here? I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is do your own due diligence before buying a product.... and this issue runs a lot deeper than a "bad weld".
You make very good points. All of which don’t have simple answers. People support the Chinese stolen designs because of price. People shop at harbour freight because of price. They only get x number of dollars in there pay check so some have to shop there. Others subscribe to the disposable society we live in today. It only cost .99 cents to buy three as when breaks throw it away get another. Up here in Canada we have princess auto, a harbour freight twin. People don’t ever shop there for quality, they shop for price. He’ll, even Canadian tire is all about price, they even get quality brand items to make a cheaper version of there products to sell in there store. For instance the quality BBQ cuisinart. You can buy a similar model of the quality bbq for $400 less at Canadian tire then the one they sell in the bbq stores. But if you look close the model number has a -C behind the number which shows it was made for Canadian tire. I bought one thinking I was getting a deal. What I got was a cheap knock off made by cuisinart for Canadian tire. All the solid Stainless steel parts where plated stainless, etc etc. So rusted out in two years. So if I had of did a bit more due diligence I would have seen that my cheaper bbq purchase was actually a more expensive option in the end. Companies try and cover all there markets with a complete line of products.
I worked for a heavy machinery manufacturer in Ohio for 18 years as a Design Engineer - Pressure Vessel Engineer. We'd design, R&D and test our products, then build and service the product. Other companies would steal the design by copying it, and sell it for less money because they didn't have the overhead.
When that happens, it tends to sour your respect for folks that buy knock off's, rather than save their money and buy quality.
I'm talking about folks buying "new" knock off products... again, like Harbor Freight.
The only problem with a weld if not done by a machine is one day you have a skilled welder perform the work and the next day Jimmy is put on the welder on his first day at the job, If the welder is not set up properly you can end up with a bad weld that can fail over time. When you look at typical production welds on common manufactured equipment plenty of the welds are not what you call quality work.
I remember the huge uproar when they where building a nuclear power plant and the welders were paid by the length of welds. They where lying rods into the joint and then welding over them. When they x-rayed welds they found the issue.
Machines make bad welds too.
You're points are all invalid if the company implements proper quality assurance procedures and policies and then has qualified personnel to ensure they are followed. That's how they caught the issue Glenn Lefley pointed out above.
Go ahead and eliminate all the welds. Bad materials, bad machining and bad assembly techniques can still produce bad products.
Again.. why all the weld bashing?
This may or may not have a bearing on this thread.
In the early 1990's one of the woodworking tool dealers in the twin cities area asked the Minnesota Woodturners Association to provide turners to demo on their machines at a tool show. I volunteered and was assigned to a brand new never turned on Record lathe and after about 15 minutes running time the non ball bearing head stock bearing began to squeal. The dealers rep. took a look at it and quietly eliminated it from the show. The Record products seamed to disappear from the market for a time after that and only reappeared in the last 10 years or so.
This is not a statement for or against Record products but rather a statement of my personal experiences with Record.
In the early 1990's one of the woodworking tool dealers in the twin cities area asked the Minnesota Woodturners Association to provide turners to demo on their machines at a tool show. I volunteered and was assigned to a brand new never turned on Record lathe and after about 15 minutes running time the non ball bearing head stock bearing began to squeal. The dealers rep. took a look at it and quietly eliminated it from the show. The Record products seamed to disappear from the market for a time after that and only reappeared in the last 10 years or so.
This is not a statement for or against Record products but rather a statement of my personal experiences with Record.
To my way of thinking this recall notice actually raises my confidence in Record Power.
Hi Mark - just curious as to why this helps your confidence?
As a former automotive engineer - you never want your customer to do your durability testing for you. Lathes are very simple machines - I wonder what type of testing is performed to prove the durability of their designs??
How many auto recalls are on the books? As a current mfg engineer/mgr, according to the recall notice, it is not a design problem, rather a process problem. No mfg or inspection process is perfect, although they can get close.
I agree with Mark - RP discovered substandard parts ( very small # according to the notice) had been made and used to assemble product. They have chosen to replace all parts in the field, which could mean many different things. The fact that they admit to a problem and are taking corrective action is being responsible. No mention any actual field failures. One might even contact RP to inquire about the root cause and corrective action at the mfg facility. Don’t know if they would share that info - we share it with customers, and service techs if needed, but we supply components of systems, not finished products direct to the public.
My way of thinking is different. We now know that their lathes have one weld holding the most critical part of the lathe from blowing off and killing someone. Now they are fixing it by supplying one bolt! That is like have one lug nut holding the wheel on the car. I think it really is a design problem and the supplied bolt is the cheapest simplest way for the owner to fix it for them at home at no cost to them.
Lets grab some perspective:
Most mechanically minded folks know that only one weld holds the axle flange to the axle tube on your typical rear wheel drive vehicle. That one weld is the only thing that keeps the entire axle / bearing assembly from falling off and "killing someone".
Ever heard of that happening?
Well I quess one way, robust etc are just extremely overbuilt lathes. I’ll pay for that and the peace of mind that I’m not depending on one thing between my safety and that 22 inch out of balance log rotating on my lathe. And I believe they use multiple plug welds to attach the axel flange to the axel tube. But I’ve been wrong before I’m not a mechanic.
Yes many auto recalls, of course, but they are complex machines that have to withstand -40F to 120F, wind/water/snow - various road conditions, etc.
My point was a lathe is a simple machine, operating in a controlled environment - a motor, a belt, and a shaft. A proper design along with mfg verification on such a simple/low volume machine should not be challenging.
My point was a lathe is a simple machine, operating in a controlled environment - a motor, a belt, and a shaft. A proper design along with mfg verification on such a simple/low volume machine should not be challenging.
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Regardless of the product/application/environment, there is competition and price/profit to drive any business. Not everyone wishes to pay the grand price of Robust products ( who incidentally don’t make every one of them perfectly). Simple/low volume/price competitive is more challenging. Not as much profit/capital to invest in methods to ensure quality/performance.
At least at the current time we each have the freedom to make our individual judgements and choices. It may not remain that way.
They use plug welds to attach the axle tube to the differential housing. A circumferential groove weld, or a fillet weld, is typically used to attach the axle tube to the flange at the wheel. Photo below is our 2019 Ford Ranger
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