Utility Finish

[Dave Fritz]

Some of the items, pepper mills, pizza cutters, ice creams scoops etc. I've given to family are showing wear. They were all finished with poly. I'm told Pre-catalyzed lacquer is a more stable finish. I don't like the smell and ventilation issues with oil based lacquer but I wonder if anyone has used and could comment on General's water base Pre-catalyzed lacquer?

 

[Doug Freeman]

Oil or wb poly? How was it applied? My experience is that oil based poly is more stable and abrasion resistant than most wb finishes (I’m sure there are some auto clears that are better - for big $’s). A lot has to do with film thickness as well. Solvent precat lacquer is pretty tough stuff, but not as tough as solvent poly, both applied to equal film thickness. But, solvent poly is a pita to spray, precat lacquer is great to spray.

CA might work for those smaller items. I plan to try some Parfix 3408, supposed to have a longer open time which provides better leveling. Not sure about wear, but a lot of pens get CA.

 

[Earl McLain]

I've done several hundred pens with CA finish, and it seems durable as long as it's applied within the product's shelf life. Pricing on one 8 oz. bottle of CA is less than four 2 oz. bottles--but not when you have to throw 3 ounces away. Flexible CA is helpful when using as a wood finish. The CA's i've liked best are Mercury Flex and Glu Boost, preferably the latter. Both apply much better when used with their own accelerator, and while the fumes are still not good, they are not nearly as obnoxious as i've found some of the more popular CA's to be.
In additions to pens, i've liked CA on bottle stoppers, openers, etc. There's a learning curve in the application, and at least 1,422 "right" ways to apply. Many great pen turners use blue paper towels as an applicator--every time i've tried it i have the paper towel flapping around stuck to the blank!!
earl

 

[Doug Freeman]

Many great pen turners use blue paper towels as an applicator--every time i've tried it i have the paper towel flapping around stuck to the blank!!

If memory serves correctly, its the cellulose (um, PAPER towels….) that reacts with the ca, acting as an accelerant. I’ve done the same thing and its a pita to get all the crap off.

 

[Dave Fritz]

Oil or wb poly? How was it applied? My experience is that oil based poly is more stable and abrasion resistant than most wb finishes (I’m sure there are some auto clears that are better - for big $’s). A lot has to do with film thickness as well. Solvent precat lacquer is pretty tough stuff, but not as tough as solvent poly, both applied to equal film thickness. But, solvent poly is a pita to spray, precat lacquer is great to spray.

CA might work for those smaller items. I plan to try some Parfix 3408, supposed to have a longer open time which provides better leveling. Not sure about wear, but a lot of pens get CA.

Thank you for the reply Doug. I use Minwax oil based poly. I can get it easily at the big box store near me. I apply it with blue paper towels, let it sit for a bit then rub off any extra. After one coat I use a red mesh pad and smooth it out, rubbed with a tack cloth to remove dust, followed by a second coat applied in the same manner. That coat is rubbed out with the dark gray mesh pad cleaned with a tack cloth and a third coat applied. That coat is rubbed out with the light grey pad, cleaned with a tack cloth. I have done additional coats rubbing out with the light gray pad. The final product is buffed on the Beall buffing system. I wait 24 hours between coats. I actually read your other posts and saw that you mentioned precat lacquer. I don't have a sprayer so would have to use rattle can precat lacquer but find that hard on a round object. I do use gluboost on pens but would be reluctant to use on a bigger object. I'd be afraid it getting tacky before I finished. Parafix 3480 will be interesting to learn about.

 

[John Hicks]

I've had very good results for durability with resisthane pre catalyzed water based lacquer. You can spray it; or wipe it on. I cut it with 20% denatured alcohol. then sand in between coats. It finishes clear and hard.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I have two travel mugs, bith about 5 years old. Both finished with oil based poly. Both used extensively and subjected to dozens of washings. The one with a thicker coating (6 or more, don't remember exactly)still looks good. The second one probably has only 3 coats, shows wear down to bear wood.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

Oil or wb poly? How was it applied? My experience is that oil based poly is more stable and abrasion resistant than most wb finishes (I’m sure there are some auto clears that are better - for big $’s). A lot has to do with film thickness as well. Solvent precat lacquer is pretty tough stuff, but not as tough as solvent poly, both applied to equal film thickness. But, solvent poly is a pita to spray, precat lacquer is great to spray.

CA might work for those smaller items. I plan to try some Parfix 3408, supposed to have a longer open time which provides better leveling. Not sure about wear, but a lot of pens get CA.

I agree, esp for small handled items that CA is a smart choice.

Do you have a good source for Parfix? I've been interested in trying it out on some larger projects as a finish.

In my experience, you only get stuck blue towel if your RPMs are too high and/or you rub on (apply) the CA too long w/ the towel.

 

[Dave Fritz]

I've had very good results for durability with resisthane pre catalyzed water based lacquer. You can spray it; or wipe it on. I cut it with 20% denatured alcohol. then sand in between coats. It finishes clear and hard.

How many coats do you put on John?

I have two travel mugs, bith about 5 years old. Both finished with oil based poly. Both used extensively and subjected to dozens of washings. The one with a thicker coating (6 or more, don't remember exactly)still looks good. The second one probably has only 3 coats, shows wear down to bear wood.

Interesting Michael, I suspect I'd have done better with more coats. Thanks everyone for their feedback. I wonder if anyone has used Generals water based precat lacquer? I like that it comes in pints as I don't use much.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

I've done several hundred pens with CA finish, and it seems durable as long as it's applied within the product's shelf life. Pricing on one 8 oz. bottle of CA is less than four 2 oz. bottles--but not when you have to throw 3 ounces away. Flexible CA is helpful when using as a wood finish. The CA's i've liked best are Mercury Flex and Glu Boost, preferably the latter. Both apply much better when used with their own accelerator, and while the fumes are still not good, they are not nearly as obnoxious as i've found some of the more popular CA's to be.
In additions to pens, i've liked CA on bottle stoppers, openers, etc. There's a learning curve in the application, and at least 1,422 "right" ways to apply. Many great pen turners use blue paper towels as an applicator--every time i've tried it i have the paper towel flapping around stuck to the blank!!
earl

I've had good luck with the paper towels. I use 1 paper towel per layer..... I actually rotate the paper towel and use a fresh surface for each application but it's easier to just say 1 towel per layer and you also don't glue your fingers together or your gloves to your paper towels when you use a fresh one.

 

[Richard Coers]

The reason your Minwax is failing is that you are removing the protective film. Poly is not an oil, you leave it on the surface to dry. Since you used an abrasive after wiping off the film, I doubt if your 3 coats even equal one coat. Precat lacquer has a self life, and I don't know anyone that puts it in an aerosol can.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I use paper towels without problems. I use the 1/3 or 1/2 sheet (whichever they are) and cut them into 3 pieces. I fold that into a small square (thick enough that it won't leak through to my finger). I then put enough thin CA to get 1 pass from left to right and the that folded piece goes right into a garbage can (far enough away that the odor coming is not under your nose). How many coats and when you use the activator is up to you. Also I agree about Pre-Catalyzed Lacquer as I learned the hard way, there is definitely a shelf life.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Thank you for the reply Doug. I use Minwax oil based poly. I can get it easily at the big box store near me. I apply it with blue paper towels, let it sit for a bit then rub off any extra. After one coat I use a red mesh pad and smooth it out, rubbed with a tack cloth to remove dust, followed by a second coat applied in the same manner. That coat is rubbed out with the dark gray mesh pad cleaned with a tack cloth and a third coat applied. That coat is rubbed out with the light grey pad, cleaned with a tack cloth. I have done additional coats rubbing out with the light gray pad. The final product is buffed on the Beall buffing system. I wait 24 hours between coats. I actually read your other posts and saw that you mentioned precat lacquer. I don't have a sprayer so would have to use rattle can precat lacquer but find that hard on a round object. I do use gluboost on pens but would be reluctant to use on a bigger object. I'd be afraid it getting tacky before I finished. Parafix 3480 will be interesting to learn about.

Your poly finish schedule is similar to mine, but I use oil free 0000 steel wool - its in between the white (does nothing on poly) and the fine gray (too coarse) scotchbrite. Wont effect the wear really, just a much finer scratch pattern. And yes, since there is only a very thin film left it does not wear well. Rebuff when it starts dulling. Its one reason I am going to experiment with the Parfix.

Have you considered an airbrush? It will do small pieces, allows most solvent finishes to be sprayed, and a cheap one works well for finish coats. I think mine was <$50 on amazon. Does require a small compressor. I have not tried water based finish in it (for several reasons), I think viscosity is too high. It can spray precat, which I have found only in gallons and shelf like becomes a problem (~ 6 months). Another option is SW cab-acrylic lacquer. Water clear, no yellowing, tougher than NC lacquer. I have used it on many larger turnings with bright color dyes and really like it.

 

[Dave Fritz]

Thank you Doug. To keep it simple I'm going to continue with poly only adding more coats and switching to the steel wool. I already have too many finishes sitting on my bench and am getting tired of chasing the LNT (latest new thing). Thanks so much for your help.

 

[John Hicks]

How many coats do you put on John?

Interesting Michael, I suspect I'd have done better with more coats. Thanks everyone for their feedback. I wonder if anyone has used Generals water based precat lacquer? I like that it comes in pints as I don't use much.

A bowl I use 3-4 coats. but cut with alcohol, I can sand it in two or three minutes. The final stage is using white 3m pads, and even high grit sandpaper if I want it glossy.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Do you have a good source for Parfix? I've been interested in trying it out on some larger projects as a finish.

Mark Sillay is the only source I know of other than direct order

 

[GRJensen]

Parfix 3408 is also available from Kapp's Kreations and The Woodturning Store.

 

[Doug Freeman]

continue with poly only adding more coats and switching to the steel wool.

Be sure to get oil free, not because of the oil but because it is much finer than the box store 0000 steel wool. More expensive but it doesnt take much of it. This is what I use
Briwax Oil-Free Steel Wool 0000 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003AXBPO...abc_YXFMBRJ142NZ6TC9W75B?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

More coats and wiping them off probably wont help - for better durability you need some film thickness. Try leaving thin “wipe on” coats. Another method I figured out, after playing with some gel poly (which works for this also), is to let the poly start to set up and thicken (I use mw and thin 1:1 to get penetration), then begin to buff it off as it is thickening. Practice this on something you dont care about, it may take a few attempts. Have some naptha or ms handy. If you leave too much on, and its getting sticky, put some thinner on a rag or towel and lightly buff, or just wipe it off. I use blue scott shop towels. With practice its pretty easy easy to do. Its essentially the same thing as using the gel poly.

 

[Dave Fritz]

Thank you Doug, that's the same steel wool I use.

Not sure what you mean by "MW" Did you mean MS?

 

[Doug Freeman]

MW= minwax