Vicmarc VM100 and VM120

[Larry Steinmetz]

For those of you that own and use both chucks, how do you tend to use them in your day-to-day bowl turning?

It seems that most people (or at least a lot) seem to use the VM120 for everything whereas occasionally I'll read where someone tends to use the VM100 for as big of a bowl as they feel comfortable using it with and then will use their 120 for bigger bowls/platters.

Sooo, if you use both chucks, what size bowls/platters do you turn and which jaws do you tend to use for both? Thanks.

 

[Lars Hansen]

To me, it's more a question of weight or force than diameter.
Heavy or tall pieces (with matching lager tenons) go into the 120 and smaller peices into the 100, the latter giving a bit more space to work near the headstock.
Correspondingly, I have larger diameter jaws for the 120s and the small sizes for the 100 chucks.
That said, anything larger diameter than 12" goes into the 120.

 

[robo hippy]

For 90% of my bowls, I use the 120. This is for bowls up to 16 inch diameter and with the standard jaws that come with it. I do turn a few small bowls and use the 100 on them. I some times will use both chucks for spindles as I prefer a dove tail tenon to a spur drive. Some times I will use the small chuck and padded jaws for cleaning up the bottom of smaller boxes. If I am turning hollow forms, which is rare, then I almost always use the 120, just for better grip. I seldom use jaws other than the standard ones that come with them. Don't bother with the step jaws...

robo hippy

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

....sorry for the double-post...seeing if I can delete the first one.

To me, it's more a question of weight or force than diameter.
Heavy or tall pieces (with matching lager tenons) go into the 120 and smaller peices into the 100, the latter giving a bit more space to work near the headstock.
Correspondingly, I have larger diameter jaws for the 120s and the small sizes for the 100 chucks.
That said, anything larger diameter than 12" goes into the 120.

Thanks Lars...corresponding then, would it be true that in most/many cases you use the 100 if turning anything smaller than 12" unless weight is an issue? What is the biggest jaws you use on a 100 or do you stick with the standard jaws? Thanks.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

For 90% of my bowls, I use the 120. This is for bowls up to 16 inch diameter and with the standard jaws that come with it. I do turn a few small bowls and use the 100 on them. I some times will use both chucks for spindles as I prefer a dove tail tenon to a spur drive. Some times I will use the small chuck and padded jaws for cleaning up the bottom of smaller boxes. If I am turning hollow forms, which is rare, then I almost always use the 120, just for better grip. I seldom use jaws other than the standard ones that come with them. Don't bother with the step jaws...

robo hippy

Thanks robo! That was an interesting comment about using both when turning spindles...will have to keep that in mind!

 

[Dennis Weiner]

The Jaws are not interchangeable between the vm100 - vm120. The same size jaws are significantly cheaper on the VM100. I planned to purchase the VM100 because it's the only chuck on the market that I know of with 3" dovetail jaws. I have been missing that size for a while. Additionally, Owning the VM100 will give me the opportunity to purchase cheaply the pin and small tower jaws. I own the VM120 and VM150 for bowls and larger vessels. Just some thoughts about the VM100. The VM120/150 model has considerably more jaws to choose from than the VM100. So buying into VM120 may be a better choice for growth.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

The Jaws are not interchangeable between the vm100 - vm120. The same size jaws are significantly cheaper on the VM100. I planned to purchase the VM100 because it's the only chuck on the market that I know of with 3" dovetail jaws. I have been missing that size for a while. Additionally, Owning the VM100 will give me the opportunity to purchase cheaply the pin and small tower jaws. I own the VM120 and VM150 for bowls and larger vessels. Just some thoughts about the VM100. The VM120/150 model has considerably more jaws to choose from than the VM100. So buying into VM120 may be a better choice for growth.

Yes, I know that the jaws are, unfortunately, not interchangeable. You make some very good points above. I already own a 120 for a Robust AB but have read where others with the AB use the 100 in addition to the 120...haven't seen a whole lot of mention of the 150.

 

[John Dillon]

Larry, I have the VM100 and have ended up with (2) VM 120 chucks. I have a Robust Sweet 16 and 16" is about as big of a bowl as I typically turn. I would say most of my work is is in the 10" -12", or smaller, range and typically is pretty well balanced. The majority of the time I use the VM 100. On anything heavier, in the over 10-12" range I use the VM 120. I kind of figure if the blank is somewhat heavy for me to lift and get ready to turn, I size the tenon for the 120 chuck.

Also - Each of these chucks use the standard jaws. I recently bought a set of pin jaws and put them on my spare 120. Seems kind of non-sensical (I think that's a word) to put the pin jaws on the 120, but I intentially did it because the jaws were basically sitting there collecting dust and I use the VM 100 all the time so didn't want to "tie it up".I haven't turned anything so heavy I've felt the need to move up to a bigger set of jaws for the 120, but I think about getting a bigger set (maybe 5"?) to have in the toolbox for the blank that's coming one day.

 

[Larry Copas]

I went to David Ellsworth's school this past February. Three Robust Sweet 16's and two AB's. Five Vicmarc 120's with the big 4" jaws. One Oneway slightly smaller chuck just in case somebody made a tenon too small.

I have both the 100 and 120. I have forced myself to use the 120 on almost all of my bowls and believe my results have improved.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Since my friendly conversation with professional English turner Phil Irons, I'm turning almost everything with one of my VM120 with the 5in Jaws. The second is my VM150 with the 5-inch jaws. I now have the almost 8 inches and the 5.86 in jaws. I feel much better knowing that bowl is not going anywhere when I'm rough turning it. Guilio Marcolongo told me I would enjoy turning large platters with the 198mm jaws on the VM150. He was right, zero vibration, even when going super thin.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I use the 120 on my big lathes 1 1/4" X 8 and I use the 100 on my smaller lathes 1" X 8. I also have VM 90 (tommy bar chuck) that I usually will grab before either of the other two currently with 1 1/4" insert. I'm in the minority as I like tommy bar chucks.

 

[Lars Hansen]

@Larry: Yes, most smaller diameter items go in the VM100.
When in need for jaws larger than the chuck diameter, I switch to the VM120.
Emiliano makes a very good point about controlling vibration. Lager chuck and heavier jaws give more control.

After some years of "bigger is better", I find myself sliding back to mostly turning medium size bowls. Few have shown interest in 16-20" bowls, so I focus more on bringing out the very best part of the wood.
Oops, BTT!

 

[James Morgan]

I have a VM100 and VM120 and used the 120 almost exclusively. That being said, I do dust off the VM100 occasionally for smaller bowls. This weekend I roughed out some 18"-20" walnut bowls using the VM120 with 5" jaws however I'm now thinking about upgrading to larger 6" jaws or to a VM150 with 6" jaws. I guess it depends on what you are planning on turning.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

I use the 120 on my big lathes 1 1/4" X 8 and I use the 100 on my smaller lathes 1" X 8. I also have VM 90 (tommy bar chuck) that I usually will grab before either of the other two currently with 1 1/4" insert. I'm in the minority as I like tommy bar chucks.

I am with you Bill. I have four VM chucks with tommy bars.

 

[musky]

I am fortunate to have about eight chucks, 3 oneway, and 5 or 6 Vicmarks, and just pick the one to use based on the jaw size I want to use. There is some overlap in the smaller size jaws, as one of my Vic120's has the standard jaws around 2", and a couple of my smaller chucks have jaws in the 3" range. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't worry about if the chuck is strong enough for the job, it's more important to get an accurate and proper sized tenon for a solid mount. For deeper hollowing over 6", I will always use my larger chucks.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

I am fortunate to have about eight chucks, 3 oneway, and 5 or 6 Vicmarks, and just pick the one to use based on the jaw size I want to use. There is some overlap in the smaller size jaws, as one of my Vic120's has the standard jaws around 2", and a couple of my smaller chucks have jaws in the 3" range. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't worry about if the chuck is strong enough for the job, it's more important to get an accurate and proper sized tenon for a solid mount. For deeper hollowing over 6", I will always use my larger chucks.

I like the idea of having multiple chucks already loaded up with different jaws. That is the path I will probably head down in due time.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

@Larry: Yes, most smaller diameter items go in the VM100.
When in need for jaws larger than the chuck diameter, I switch to the VM120.
Emiliano makes a very good point about controlling vibration. Lager chuck and heavier jaws give more control.

After some years of "bigger is better", I find myself sliding back to mostly turning medium size bowls. Few have shown interest in 16-20" bowls, so I focus more on bringing out the very best part of the wood.
Oops, BTT!

It is always interesting the different ways people successfully do very similar things and also the journey people take until they settle on what works for them.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

For those that are just using the standard jaws on the 120, are you using the full range of the jaws depending on the size of your bowl and corresponding tenon?

 

[Roger Wiegand]

I've gripped many too large tenons with the standard jaws, at first because they were what I had and a tiny tenon on a big bowl seemed like a bad idea, later out of laziness about changing jaws. Now that I have several chucks with different size jaws I tend to choose a more appropriate size to the object in question. Still generally not as big as the current fashion would dictate, but way bigger than people recommended in decades past..

I can't recall any problems I'd attribute to extending the jaws too far. The eight point grasp actually seems pretty secure. I have had problems occasionally from smaller tenons failing in poor quality wood. That's more likely if the chuck is farther open.

I tend to use the tailstock whenever possible, especially when pieces are seriously out of balance, I suspect that reduces the stress on the tenon and chuck significantly.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have both the VM100 and two of the VM120 chucks. I think that I have the full complement of jaws for the larger VM120, but only the standard jaws for the VM100. I agree with Roger that grabbing with eight points is adequately secure for most things, but I normally try to get the tenon size to match the perfect circle diameter of the jaws that I am using. I mainly do this when I will be removing the turning and reversing it. This gives me the best alignment when remounting the piece. If I won't be removing and remounting then I will use a Oneway Stronghold or Talon chuck with their Premium Profiled jaws, which I feel gives a better grip on random diameter tenons.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

I'm considering buying a VM120 and wanted to ask if you could start with one (or two) sets of jaws for it: what size jaws would you most commonly use, recommend, mostly for bowl turning; platters secondarily?

I'm moving up to my first full size lathe and need a larger chuck and that fits the larger machine and the work I plan to do. I could use help making the correct choices among the many, many options advertised. I'm not married to a chuck ecosystem, having only a Nova G3 bundle (I'll have to adapt to 1-1/4) so far. I like everything I've read and seen about the VM120 and other Vicmarc chucks.

Is the VM120 reversible for sanding?

 

[David Crane]

I have the VM120 direct thread and it does not have the capability to reverse turn. I believe the threaded insert model is reversible.

 

[john lucas]

I use Vicmarc 100 and reverse turn and sand all.the time. No problem. I put my chuck on so its snug. Then intake the chuck wrench and lock my spindle and snug the chuck tighter. It has never come loose. And it never takes much more force to get it off than the force I used to lock it down.
Jaw sizes. Gosh I have one inch to.5 inch and use them all. Probably if I had to narrow it down I would use my 2 and 4 inch the most. When i do platters with rebates I use 2 or 4 the most. Tenons for bowls I use 2 the most but my 3 inch sometimes.for larger. One reason i suggest buying 2, 3, and 4 is the jaw sizes in my Vic chuck overlap in their ra ges. So no matter what size your tenon is one of those jaws will fit. I have turned up to 20" bowls with the 100 so never felt the need to step up to the 120.

 

[Larry Steinmetz]

When people talk about 3 or 4 inch jaws, as an example, is this the inner -or- outer perfect circle measurement of the jaws?

 

[John Dillon]

I primarily use the VM100 on 90% of what I do and occasionally use the VM120 if I'm doing bigger, heavier (green wood) blanks. With the blanks that weigh more than 5 pounds? I regularly sand the finished bowls in reverse with either size chuck. I typically only use a "flick of the wrist" to tighten the chucks, but try to remember to give the VM 120 a little extra bump to tighten when I'm working on a heavy bowl and sanding in reverse. I've had two (2) instances where I noticed vibration and the VM120 chuck loosened a bit. I think it's related to the reverse on/off multiple times with the heavy bowl. Otherwise, never have any issues with the VM100 or the VM120. I only use the standard size jaws on 99% of what I do, but have not had the opportunity to go bigger than maybe 18" bowl with the VM120. I would consider buying a bigger set of jaws if I was doing more of the bigger bowls.

 

[Dave Landers]

When people talk about 3 or 4 inch jaws, as an example, is this the inner -or- outer perfect circle measurement of the jaws?

I believe it is usually the inside (tenon) diameter. With VM jaws, the outer (recess) diameter is maybe 3/8" more or so.

 

[Dave Landers]

I have 3 VM120 chuck bodies, and 1 VM100. I currently have the 5", standard (they're around 2-1/2"), and pin jaws on the 120s, and standard jaws (they're smaller than the 120's standard at around 2") on the 100. That seems to do most things for me (bowls and hollow forms of various sizes - the pin jaws I use for smaller spindles mostly). I also have 4" jaws for the 120 and 3" for the 120, that I will switch out if needed. And I have a couple Nova chucks with standard jaws that I do not like at all (my personal preference).

I never use the spindle set screw, just a gentle "flick" of the chuck to seat it. Never had an issue reverse sanding. Works if the flat on the spindle and chuck mate well (smooth and clean).

So to answer your question, I'd probably start with the "standard" 120 jaws, and add probably a 4" set to that. Then add a 5" or so when you move up to larger stuff. Or do the same with a VM100, which is a bit less expensive and would let you get more jaws for the same money, if that's a concern.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, for me, the standard jaws on the Vic 120 work for just about every bowl I turn, except for the smaller ones. Don't get the step jaws, they are dust collectors. If I used a tenon for mounting bowl blanks, then I would want jaws with 3 to 4 inch inside diameter. Maybe 5 for some platters.

I use a forstner bit to make a recess for turning my bowls rather than a face plate or a worm screw. A 2 5/8 inch bit is perfect, just a little wiggle room.

robo hippy

 

[Larry Copas]

I reverse sand a lot with both the 100 and 120. I have discovered I can accidentally un-screw the 120. This is how to do it. Don't seat the chuck with a snap. Get a really heavy big chunk of wood on and spin it too fast. Turn off the lathe. Never came all the way off, but it was a signal to watch what I was doing.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Dont have a Vicmark chuck, but I have had chucks loosen, and even unscrew and come off the spindle a couple of times, so I’m wary. I use set screws on all of them - some I had to drill and tap myself. I do some reverse hollowing, and would not attempt it without a set screw.

For jaw sizes, I made a change several months ago. I most always use tenons, and would use 2” jaws on larger projects. After watching an Ellsworth video showing how he creates a shoulder at the jaws to allow for a continuous sweep curve on the ID, I thought I would try larger jaws. I got a 5” set and cut some 12-14” bowls. The larger jaws help stabilize the walls when hollowing the ID, then all that is cut off when the bowl, or platter is reversed. I never had a “strength” issue with the smaller tenons(they didnt break out), its the improvement in wall stability of gripping larger tenons/mortises. So, yes, depending on what OD you go to, a 5” or larger set of jaws works better.

 

[Dean Center]

When people talk about 3 or 4 inch jaws, as an example, is this the inner -or- outer perfect circle measurement of the jaws?

FWIW, Nova jaws are spec'd based on the outside diameter when closed. (and are metric, but close enough to inches)

 

[Kalia Kliban]

For an assortment of reasons, my bigger jaws ended up on my VM100 and my medium jaws on the VM120. Over the years I've turned a lot of green wood chunks as heavy as 120 pounds successfully with the VM100. At some point I'll need to get new jaw sets so that the holding capacity is more in line with the body size, but they're working just fine.