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Waterlox Sweating

Dave Bunge

Dave Bunge

Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
258
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203
Location
Midland, MI
I've been having some trouble using Waterlox to finish bowls. Can I get some advice?

The problem is that as the finish is drying, some comes out of the pores of the wood and leaves small dots of finish on the surface. Here's what it looks like, first coat on a willow bowl:
Waterlox Sweating.jpg

My procedure was:
1. Sand bowl to 320 grit.
2. Apply two liberal coats of 1 lb cut of super blonde shellac.
3. Re-sand to 400 grit to remove raised grain and any excess shellac.
4. Apply liberal coat of Waterlox inside and outside. Surface was saturated, no dry spots.
5. Wipe off Waterlox to almost completely dry surface using paper towels.
6. Come back 10 minutes later, see lots of dots on surface and wipe them off.
7. Come back 45 minutes later, see lots more dots on the surface, now partially cured. Scrub them off frantically using paper towel dampened with fresh Waterlox finish.
8. Return home from frisbee golfing to see the surface covered with dots of cured finish as shown in picture above.

I'm used to seeing finish bleed out of pores of ring porous woods like oak. But I was surprised to see such an issue with willow.

So, for those of you who use Waterlox successfully, how do you deal with finish bleeding to the surface? Or if it's not an issue for you, what am I doing differently than you that might account for my problem?

Thanks,
Dave
 
That looks like an air bubble that is coming out of the pores as the fluid tries to displace it. Keep the surface wet longer. When I used Watco oil decades ago, I would wipe off all the excess and then blow compressed air on the wood to blow out excess oil from the pores. You might try that too.
 
I have probably used Waterlox on over a thousand pieces.

wood with open pores can be a produce that effect. Using a thin shellac sealer usually seals pores enough. Your sealer did not work well.

Here is a sapeli seed jar with a coat of Waterlox on the raw wood 2E890AE2-8A57-4311-BEC5-85513B62E2E7.jpeg
The bleeding I can level nicely with grey scotch-bight pads.

one issue with Waterlox is any little bubble or drip dries shinier.
If there are grooves or areas where extra Waterlox can collect I hit it with compressed air and wipe it again.

This is a nearly identical seed jar from sapeli that was sandblasted with feather motif, painted with blue and black milk paint sanded back and finished with 2 coats of waterlox. Compressed air was used each time in wipiping off the Waterlox. And the milk paint has sealed the pores
43503CE8-6234-4B7E-BD57-B36FAD88AE21.jpeg If I had not used compressed air there would be shiny spots in the grooves, along some feather edges and in some of blasted grain lines.
 
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Thanks guys for the tips.

I was surprised that the shellac didn't seal well enough. I put on two coats of shellac, and when I put on the first coat of Waterlox it didn't seem to soak in very much; there weren't any dry spots on the end grain like I'm used to seeing when finish is soaking in. It was some fairly old shellac, mixed up > 6 months ago. I will mix up some fresh shellac to try on my next bowl.

Al, do you normally use shellac under the Waterlox, or just start with Waterlox on raw wood? Do you really flood the surface with finish or apply sparingly?

I was in a hurry on this bowl, trying to finish in time for a club show and tell tonight. I put down two coats of shellac, let them dry overnight, sanded and followed with a heavy coat of Waterlox, that I wiped off. Trying to build finish in a hurry. I wonder if a lighter coat would be better, or skipping the the shellac. I did remove the bleeding with 600 grit sandpaper on the outside, and grey scotch pads on the inside, applied a thin 2nd coat and am seeing only minimal bleeding this time.

Interesting to hear about using compressed air to blow off the finish. Not something I could do for much of the year when I'm forced to work in doors. But I will try that this summer.
 
Dave Bunge said:
Interesting to hear about using compressed air to blow off the finish. Not something I could do for much of the year when I'm forced to work in doors. But I will try that this summer.
Click to expand...
It's not like any finish gets blown around the shop. It's just about popping bubbles or getting oil out of the pores.
 
Dave Bunge said:
Al, do you normally use shellac under the Waterlox, or just start with Waterlox on raw wood? Do you really flood the surface with finish or apply sparingly?
Click to expand...

All of the above depending on the situation and desired result.

if I have a alcohol based dyed surface the first coat of Waterlox is very light and no wiping- the dye can move into the Waterlox and look dull thin coat keeps it close to the surface. Wiping can move they dyes around a little bit.

If I want a shiny surface as an end result I will apply several coats of 1lb cut of shellac sanding in between coats.
This gives a quick buildup of the Waterlox to a shiny surface in 3 coats.

First coat on raw wood or over shellac I wipe on and keep wet for a while - woods like maple I do the endgrain light so it doesn’t soak it up and get blotchy.
First coat - For most woods I rub the surface with a small piece of paper towel wet with Waterlox.
And get it all wet. Then work another piece and get it all wet, then do a 3rd piece and get it all wet.
Now it is time to wipe them all dry in order with paper towels. (If there are any places I cannot wipe I blow them out and wipe)

Follow on coats after drying a day I use a grey scotchbrite, blow off the suface, Wet the whole surface rubbing while applying less than with the first coat. On subsequent coatS i work 2 pieces at the same time. wipe the first after wetting the 2nd. The Waterlox gets tacky quicker on overcoats and I want to wipe it off before it is tacky.
 
If you're trying to get a piece done for a show and tell or something like that i'd skip the waterlox altogether and do a nice shellac finish. Since you're bringing the peice home it's easy enough to finish with waterlox afterwards.
 
I use Waterlox and never had a problem. My procedure is different than yours. I seal the wood with Waterlox universal sanding sealer. Wait 24 hrs. Then put on the first coat of Waterlox original finish. Wait 24 hours, denib, and then put on a second coat (which is usually the final coat). Done. Waterlox claims their sealer and finish are engineered to work together. I don’t know if that is true, but the process I just described seems to work for me.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies and Al for the detailed write up of how you use Waterlox. It's pretty close to what I've been doing.

Jon and Al, can I ask more specifically which Waterlox products you use? I've been using the Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish, TB 5284, this stuff: https://www.rockler.com/waterlox-original-sealer-finish-quart . Waterlox says to use it as a first coat sealer and for 2nd and 3rd coats to get a semi-gloss finish.

I see that they also have a Universal Tung Oil Sealer, TB 1000 (for first coat sealing only). And for the 2nd and 3rd coats there are two more options: Original Gloss Finish TB 3182 and Original Satin Finish TB 6044.

My perception was that most people used the TB 5284 Sealer/Finish alone, not combinations. Not sure where I got that, so interested to hear what you do.

Dave
 
I have never used Waterlox but am considering it for a current project, based on a recommendation. I thought that it was designed to be a penetrating finish, yet in this thread the responders are using it over a sealer that would inhibit any penetration. What gives?
 
Dennis J Gooding said:
I have never used Waterlox but am considering it for a current project, based on a recommendation. I thought that it was designed to be a penetrating finish, yet in this thread the responders are using it over a sealer that would inhibit any penetration. What gives?
Click to expand...

Waterlox is a lot thicker than something like watco. So it won’t penetrate as much as Watco.
Multiple coats build up to a top coat that can be buffed and waxed to a High gloss. If I want more gloss in the finish it will build with fewer coats if I use some shellac under it.

Usually I use it on the raw wood and go for low sheen.
 
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hockenbery said:
Waterlox is a lot thicker than something like watco. So it won’t penetrate as much as Watco.
Multiple coats build up to a top coat that can be buffed and waxed to a Hugh gloss. If I want more gloss in the finish it will build with fewer coats if I use some shellac under it.

Usually I use it on the raw wood and go for low sheen.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification Al.
 
I use a lot of Waterlox and I have a satisfactory result (at least for me) by using it in a much more simple fashion. A lot depends on the type of wood I'm working as to whether I use a sanding sealer or not. If the wood does not have a big problem with open pores then I don't ever use a sanding sealer. In fact, I'd rather not use sanding sealer. My technique is to sand to 320-or-400-or 600 and then evenly coat the piece with Waterlox using a paper towel. I then let is sit overnight, denib/smooth with whatever the last grit I used, and wipe on another coat of Waterlox. Let this coat sit overnight and then Beall buff. This produces a long-lasting medium shine which can be very easily touched up with a quick Beall carnauba wax buff when the cookie jar begins to finally show some fingerprints and chocolate smudges. I use the same technique with Danish Oil...but stick pretty much to Waterlox because it nags my conscience to think about how many Danes might have to be processed to make Danish Oil. All of us need to think about these things in these troubling times...
 
Dave, I have had this problem before, I switched to deft lacquer cut with thinner by 50% or there abouts instead of the shellac when using Waterlox. Never had the problem again. This is one of my favorite finishes . I believe I learned this from dale nish
 
Dean said:
Dave, I have had this problem before, I switched to deft lacquer cut with thinner by 50% or there abouts instead of the shellac when using Waterlox. Never had the problem again. This is one of my favorite finishes . I believe I learned this from dale nish
Click to expand...
I can second this. When I feel the need to use a sealer, I use the same...lacquer sanding sealer cut 50% with lacquer thinner. It works.
 
Dean said:
Dave, I have had this problem before, I switched to deft lacquer cut with thinner by 50% or there abouts instead of the shellac when using Waterlox. Never had the problem again. This is one of my favorite finishes . I believe I learned this from dale nish
Click to expand...

Thanks for that tip. I will try the diluted lacquer as sealer next time.

I started using shellac sanding sealer (diluted Zinsser seal coat) when I had a lot of bowls to finish. No spray booth, basement shop, desire to minimize solvent fumes in the house. In the winter, my garage gets too cold for most finishes, but I can take a room temp bowl and shellac to the garage, slop on a couple of coats and have it dry fine. I still applied the final coats, mostly Minwax Antique Oil, in my basement, but fewer and thinner coats were needed, so less fumes in the house.

I won't be able to use diluted lacquer in the garage in the winter, but I'm curious to see how it performs compared to just using multiple coats of Waterlox.

Dave
 
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