Curious, does anyone use a weighted turning tool handle? If so, for what type of tool and why? Thanks for educating me.
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Weighted Tool Handles
- Thread starter Don Stephan
- Start date
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
For normal use i don't like them. They get tiring. However when roughing out really out of round pieces the weighted handle really helps. Mine is a Thompson 18".
Personally I think they are completely unnecessary. If you move the tool rest rest into a proper position, the weighted handle is a waste. I dumped all the lead out of the one I bought and never put it back in. Now at 73, I don’t need more weight that causes more hand fatigue.
Ditto what John Lucas wrote. I have a 5/8 Glaser gouge with weighted handle that I use on large unruly pieces.
I'm not sure the weighted handles, the metal handles filled with shot, make much difference. But, a wooden handled tool with the end drilled out about 5-6 inches and poured full of lead will almost always land on the end of the handle when it rolls off the lathe. ;-)
Now thats wisdom
Handle never really owned one, thought about it a few times, never got any further.
Wood is good! I do not care for metal handles on turning tools, just a personal preference. Ash, white oak, and hickory make great handles.
But in all seriousness, I used the lead idea when I made a chess set in the late 90s. Drilled out the botton of each piece about 3/4" deep with a 3/8" bit, put a glob of epoxy in the hole, poured in small lead bird shot, and capped it all with another glob of epoxy. Worked great, all were bottom heavy and not tippy.
During covid I started another chess set (started...) and this time instead of lead, I was epoxying a 3/8" x 3/4" long (maybe 1" long) bolt into the bottom of the pieces with the same result. This required a 2-step hole to accommodate the bolt head.
For wood handled tools that like to run away on the bench, a couple-few hand plane strokes onto the fat rounds on the handle can slow down their getaway. And the resulting facets improve overall grip on the handle (something many of the metal handles share).
I have a myriad of handles but my favorite were the handles that Doug Thompson first made, round aluminum with the two grub screw nose and a long lasting foam cover. I have several of Doug's square rounded cornered weighted handles most of which were mistakes when lasering the persons name who bought it. What many may not know is that the Thompson handles are really weight adjustable as there is a plastic plug that you can drive down for having less weight and you can drive it back the other way if you change your mind. Be careful when you take off that end cap because if you spill the insides you'll never pick it all up.
I have weighted a few of my homemade wood handles with lead shot. I don’t add lead shot the full length, just enough for better balance. None of my metal handles are weighted.
I don't care for weighted handles. I don't even like heavy handles, although I have some heavy Monster handles - I quit using them years ago.
But as often the case in woodturning, things like this may depend on what and how you turn. I use many tools with short, lightweight handles, and often with NO handle - just held by the shaft. Again, it depends on what I'm turning.
Hogging out big bowls and such from hardwoods? Occasionally get a catch? Long, heavy handles might be needed; weighted handles might be useful.
JKJ
But as often the case in woodturning, things like this may depend on what and how you turn. I use many tools with short, lightweight handles, and often with NO handle - just held by the shaft. Again, it depends on what I'm turning.
Hogging out big bowls and such from hardwoods? Occasionally get a catch? Long, heavy handles might be needed; weighted handles might be useful.
JKJ
I tried 2 of the old Glaser tools, and didn't like the shot filled handles at all. If you are standing at the lathe for hours a day, they just wear you out holding up that much extra weight. My favorite handles are straight round cylinders, and I like them bigger around, like 1 1/2 inch diameter. I do all of my roughing with scrapers on the bowls I turn, so no problems with standard bowls. I don't do "ornamental" pieces. I still don't understand the popularity of them. I have a Robust, and slide the headstock down to turn bowls so I am turning on a short bed lathe. This is just more ergonomically correct position. Posture stays straight, no bending over or leaning, and your arms stay in close to your body. That to me is the whole point of the sliding headstock, you get a short bed lathe and a long bed lathe in one machine.
robo hippy
robo hippy
At this month’s NWWT club meeting Jimmy Allen from D-Way tools demoed making handles for their handle new(?) inserts. He cored out the handle (7/16” diameter, i think), and tapped it to hold a large allen set screw. Then filled it with lead shot. He passed around a 16” handle with one of D-Ways large negative rake scrapers. It was very nicely balanced.
I had a 16" Thompson handle for his 5/8" bowl gouge filled with lead pellets for awhile until I decided that I didn't like it, and dumped them back in the tin of air-rifle pellets for plinking at cans on the rare occasions I have time to be bored.
Edit to add: I can see it being a nice counter-weight to steady a big scraper. That might be worth a try.
Edit to add: I can see it being a nice counter-weight to steady a big scraper. That might be worth a try.
The only time I weighted handles was when turning custom handles for dressage "whips" for equine competition. Compared to hunter-jumper competition, dressage handles are longer and had to be balanced exactly right. I added lead shot to the end until the balance was close, then dumped out the shot and coated it in epoxy and tamped it back into place. Fortunately, I didn't have to make too many.
Nothing to do with turning tool handles, but that's me - off on a tangent.
JKJ
Nothing to do with turning tool handles, but that's me - off on a tangent.
JKJ
Odie
Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
I've never had a weighted handle, but have been reading threads from those who have used them in years past.
I've never been convinced that I need any.
=o=
I've never been convinced that I need any.
=o=
I'm in the no weight group. Handles that are long and light weight seem to work well and are easier on my body parts. Even my 3/4" bowl gouge for use on rough logs and other random shaped wood has an unweighted wooden handle. A handle can be a bit longer instead of adding weight to change the balance
Donna Banfield
TOTW Team
All my bowl gouges are Hannes Tools - steel and handles. I have multiples of each size: 1" 3/4" 5/8" 1/2" and 3/8". They all have some lead shot in them, as that's what Hannes did.
I have decided as I have gotten older that I don't need much weight (if any) in the 1/2" or 3/8". And not as much in the larger gouges, as they are only used for roughing out large diameter work.
Several years ago, I bought out all of Hannes' early handles - his glue in stock, including many prototypes, which were all large handles. All shipped without lead. If and when I use them, I will pull the lead shot from the smaller size gouges and re-distribute them in the larger handles. I like the bit of weight to soften the 'bonk time' from roughing out large diameter work. These are green blanks 18" and up.
I have decided as I have gotten older that I don't need much weight (if any) in the 1/2" or 3/8". And not as much in the larger gouges, as they are only used for roughing out large diameter work.
Several years ago, I bought out all of Hannes' early handles - his glue in stock, including many prototypes, which were all large handles. All shipped without lead. If and when I use them, I will pull the lead shot from the smaller size gouges and re-distribute them in the larger handles. I like the bit of weight to soften the 'bonk time' from roughing out large diameter work. These are green blanks 18" and up.
Weighted handles can be a good thing.
Put a thick piece of wood in your chuck as if you were turning a flat grain bowl. Take a facing cut. Every revolution of the piece you'll have 2 areas areas being turned against the grain. Use a pencil to mark the faced area with the lathe in low speed. Chances are the pencil will mark the high spots in the areas against the grain because your tool had a micro bounce away as the turning became more difficult. A weighted tool would be less likely to bounce as much because of its weight.
Think about what happens in a catch. The tool has a short lever arm between the wood contact point and the pivot point on the tool rest. If the catch doesn't break the tool or knock the wood out of its mount the tool point will be forced downward. When the tool point moves downward the handle pivots upward, the heavier the handle the less likely the handle will jump upward.
This is somewhat like using a wood shaper to pattern shape wood parts. You want the hand guided wood holder to be as heavy as practical so when the cutter "catches" in the wood you want the heaviness of the holder to prevent the wood blank from shooting out of your hands. Same concept with using a hand held wood router. Feed it the wrong way with respect to cutter rotation and the router may jump out of your hands. Heavily weight the router to prevent a bad situation.
When we turn on a CNC lathe the situation is like a heavily weighted handle. The cutter digs into the work, the mechanical equivalent of a heavy weighted handle prevents the tool tip being forced downward. This is why spindles can be turned against the grain.
Unfortunately reality checks in with heavy weighted handles. You have to eat your spinach like Popeye the sailor to be able to deal with the weight.
Put a thick piece of wood in your chuck as if you were turning a flat grain bowl. Take a facing cut. Every revolution of the piece you'll have 2 areas areas being turned against the grain. Use a pencil to mark the faced area with the lathe in low speed. Chances are the pencil will mark the high spots in the areas against the grain because your tool had a micro bounce away as the turning became more difficult. A weighted tool would be less likely to bounce as much because of its weight.
Think about what happens in a catch. The tool has a short lever arm between the wood contact point and the pivot point on the tool rest. If the catch doesn't break the tool or knock the wood out of its mount the tool point will be forced downward. When the tool point moves downward the handle pivots upward, the heavier the handle the less likely the handle will jump upward.
This is somewhat like using a wood shaper to pattern shape wood parts. You want the hand guided wood holder to be as heavy as practical so when the cutter "catches" in the wood you want the heaviness of the holder to prevent the wood blank from shooting out of your hands. Same concept with using a hand held wood router. Feed it the wrong way with respect to cutter rotation and the router may jump out of your hands. Heavily weight the router to prevent a bad situation.
When we turn on a CNC lathe the situation is like a heavily weighted handle. The cutter digs into the work, the mechanical equivalent of a heavy weighted handle prevents the tool tip being forced downward. This is why spindles can be turned against the grain.
Unfortunately reality checks in with heavy weighted handles. You have to eat your spinach like Popeye the sailor to be able to deal with the weight.
Interesting discussions...please allow me to take a tangent...JKJ, please step in here. Using old Glaser handles with double set screws installed, how can you put some lead shot in and spread it out through the handle for balance so that it doesn't shift back and forth as the handle moves? Along with that, how do you put the shot in such that you can add more or take some out till it feels right? If someone already covered this, apologies for having missed it.
I did a 3 day class with David Ellsworth while he was still in PA. He told us he no longer likes using weighted handles because he felt that they became unnecessary weight to be hefting all the time.
Personally, I like my heft to be in the steel of the cutting tool.
Personally, I like my heft to be in the steel of the cutting tool.
I don't think I have any Glaser handles - are they hollow all the way to the end? If they don't come apart and If I wanted to add evenly distributed weight, I might either cut a steel bar that would slide through the hole on the end and short enough so to still mount a tool and sink the shaft somewhat into the handle, as I often do. Another thing might be to mix lead shot with plastic beads, put them in a tube or something outside the handle to check the weight, then pour them into the handle followed by enough thin glue (CA?) to form a mass that won't slide around.
Again, I don't know about Glaser handles. Might be a better way. I personally haven't felt the need to add weight to any handle.
How thick? What type of wood? Wet or dry? What type of tool?
I've done just that, using hard, dry wood. Not trying to argue, just giving my perspective. I can't remember ever detecting bounce related to end-grain sections, except as a beginner..
Maybe I'd see bounce if I worked differently. Here's the way I work with face-grain pieces (bows, platters, inside and out).
- Start with dry wood, harder wood is often better.
- Round and face off the blank of course - I almost always cut round with the bandsaw before mounting on the lathe. I run most such blanks through the drum sander to start with two good, smooth, parallel faces.
- When rounding the outside, use the appropriate cut, not just pushing into the side with alternating side and end grain.
- Use tools appropriate for the cut.
- Sharp/sharp/sharp shaving sharp tools.
- Good tool control - learned by spindle turning.
- Important: Tool well supported on the tool rest with left hand down pressure (I'm right-handed) I prefer Robust tool rests just because.
- Tool handle held tight against left forearm.
- Right arm supported against the my side if appropriate for the tool motions needed.
- Turn at fairly high lathe speed. Move tool very slowly with control. Don't take deep cuts. (I see no need to rush.) High lathe speed +slow tool speed = smooth cuts. Slow lathe speed gives time to bounce, especially with poor support or with poor tools. If having problems with tool control, practice spindle turning with skew and gouges.
- Shape the piece inside and out.
- After a clean final cut (no tearout allowed), clean up tool marks witth NRS or shear scraping.
Smooth with hand scrapers (clean up NRS marks).
Sand with 400/600 grit, mostly by hand.
If there is bounce at the end grain sections, I think there is something wrong..
JKJ
I have a lot of stainless steel tube handles with foam overlay, very comfortable.
Plastic Beads!!! Thank you, never would have thought of that...knew you were the one to ask.
I agree it may not be necessary to add weight to a handle. That doesn’t mean there is not a benefit. I only add weight to my homemade handles. I do not add weight to my metal handles. I add between 5-6 oz to the back end . I feel this gives a better balance. In reality my weighted wood handles do not weight any more than my non-weighted metal handles. There is no added “fatigue” factor to my handles. Personal preference, but I do like the feel of the weighted wood handle over a non-weighted handle. All of the brand wood handled tools I have bought do not have weight. So yes I could get by without adding weight, but I do like a little weight in the back end of the handle. I do have on modern Glasses handle that is filled with lead and that is a heavy handle. I only use it for final cuts and may end up removing the lead. It is just personnel preference instead of necessary or unnecessary.
John, I quoted only part of your msg to me........ I understand what you're saying, but hand turning doesn't interest me.
Here's a brief description of what would be my ideal hand turning lathe. Convention headstock and tailstock as used now. The tool rest would be replaced with a flat platform adjustable in position to the workpiece similar to the current style tool rests. Tools would be carbide diamond shape inserts with the cupped top as opposed to some flat top used for hand turning.
The tool holding fixture would be guided on the smooth platform with both hands, heavy enough that its weight would help with accurate positioning to your design (heavy like I mentioned we used with wood shapers). Templates could be used to guide the tool if wanted.
Throw away all your special grinds, sharpening equipment, exotic tools, etc, etc.