What bowl gouges to purchase for larger bowls 12-16 inch dia.?

[Norm Marentette]

Wanted to find out from anyone out there what would you recommend regarding lathe tools for turning larger bowls? I recently purchased a standard 5/8"Sorby bowl gouge, a 1-1/4" straight and rounded skew. Have ground what I think is the Elsworth grind on the gouge. Finding it takes practice, but starting to get the hang of it. I use the straight skew for finishing the tenon (for compression on a oneway stronghold chuck . The half moon rounded skew I have ground with a slight 25 degree angle at the top and 70 degree on the bottom and is working much better than when I purchased it with just a bottom angle cut at 80 degrees. I see that a lot of turners use a smaller gouge for finishing? I am also thinking I might need a bottom feeder for cleaning out the bottom of the bowl. This the part that gives me the most frustration is the end grain. Any rec. would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Paul M. Kaplowitz]

I make bowls in the 18 to 24" range and I use 5/8" V bowl gouges made by Doug Thompson.

 

[hockenbery]

A 1/2 gouge (5/8 dia) with the Ellsworth grind will work fine on bowls that size.
easy to take a 3/4” widths shaving.


if you get into production of 200 bowls or more a year you might want to get a 3/4” diameter tool.

the Sorby flute is not the best for the Ellsworth gouge. You can get by with it Using the push cut.
But the advanced cuts will be difficult and leave poorer results.

i use the jamieson gouge (made by thompson- my favorite.
I also have the Robust gouge, henry taylor, and a crown which have the parabolic flute.
these tools all work take the Ellsworth grind well.

i use the Ellsworth for finishing with one exception. To top 1-2” of the inside wall i cut with a1/4” (3/8 bar) Michaels on ground tool.
for NE bowls the Ellsworth grid is all i use except for a 3/8 spindle gouge to cut the tenon and 1 1/4 round nose scraper for the bottom inside on highly figure wood with misbehaving fibers.

you can see my roughing process video and returning a dried bowl video In the working with green wood thread the videos ar from one demo. Might get some useful tips on using the Ellsworth gouge.

Working with green wood

The August 2015 AAW JOURNAL has great article by David Ellsworth on working with green wood. This is followed by 11 marvelous ways turners turned cracks into features. One of David's themes is that the deck is stacked against newer woodturners successfully working with wet wood. Might be a nice...

www.aawforum.org

 

[Norm Marentette]

Would I be better off grinding the Sorby for a bottoming gouge and buy a Thompson or crown Ellsworth v shape flute? Thanks again for the info.

 

[Russ Braun]

Would I be better off grinding the Sorby for a bottoming gouge and buy a Thompson or crown Ellsworth v shape flute? Thanks again for the info.

Constantly buying new tools is an important step in a woodturner’s evolution Norm! The sooner you start, the better!

 

[hockenbery]

Would I be better off grinding the Sorby for a bottoming gouge and buy a Thompson or crown Ellsworth v shape flute? Thanks again for the info.

1. If you learn to use the Ellsworth grind - I would recommend buying a parabolic fluted gouge like the jaimison gouge made Thompson or crown or Henry taylor.
when you use the Ellsworth gouge you won’t need a bottom of the bowl gouge unless the bowl is much much deeper than wide.

2. If you are just starting out stick with the Sorby for a while. Once you find a class or mentor who can teach you the advanced cuts with the Ellsworth then it will be worthwhile to get one.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I have a bunch of bowl gouges, but not too many.... So, for the outside of the bowl, for finish cuts, I prefer the 40/40 grind, which is generally ground on a platform, though under the tips and tutorials of this forum, there is one by Dennis Gooding who uses the Wolverine jig and a special set up, but I have no experience with the Wolverine jig since I do all of my sharpening on the platform. For flute shape for the 40/40, a Thompson or D Way V flute work fine, as does the parabolic flute, but the U flute from Doug does not do well with this grind. On the inside of a bowl, again, I prefer the 40/40 grind down to the transition, and then switch to a 70 degree bevel, and have a bunch of different gouges for that. My BOB (bottom of bowl) gouges all have a ) shaped nose, so just a tiny bit of sweep, and a 70 degree bevel, which will easily get you through most transitions and across the bottom of the bowl. A half round flute, which is fairly common works perfectly. The U flute from Doug works. I have a couple of spindle/bowl detain type gouges that work, and also a couple of the fluteless gouges from Doug. In general, the more V shaped flutes are not well suited for BOB tools, but the parabolic flutes work fine. As for the 3/4 inch gouges, I have one, and just didn't like it. Part of that may be because I do all of my roughing with scrapers (a couple of videos up about that). I don't use a swept back gouge at all anymore. Mostly, I kind of feel that it is more of a 'does a lot of things well' tool, but the specialty tools seem to do a better job. It does make a great shear scraping tool, but I prefer to do all of that with scrapers. Usually a burnished burr or straight from the grinder. The swept back gouge does do a good job of shear scraping. As for how big of a shaving can you take, that depends on your lathe as much as anything. I can pull off one inch wide shavings with scrapers, but only about 1/2 inch wide because that is how wide the wing is, but I can generally pull off a thicker shaving with it than I can with the scrapers. Horsepower and torque determine how much you can pull off in one pass. both for thickness and width. I haven't met a lathe yet that I couldn't stall out with either gouges or scrapers, and my scrapers are only 1 inch wide max.

Oh, you will want some NRSs (negative rake scrapers). I like them mostly for sweeping across the bottom of a bowl. I do prefer a shear scrape for a finish cut rather than the NRS. It is still a scraper, so it pulls at the fibers as you cut. It seems to mostly work better on harder woods than softer ones, and you only take the lightest of cuts with it.

robo hippy

 

[Dean Center]

Keep It Simple, Eh?!

You've got a bowl gouge that will work fine for normally shaped bowls in the size you are planning to turn. An Ellsworth grind will allow you to work from top to bottom inside the bowls and out.

Now go make 100 of them. When you've done that, you can make things as complicated as you like, with confidence.

 

[Aaron Harris]

Take this for what it's worth, as I am still a bowl-turning newbie and can't turn anything wider than about 11" on my Laguna 12/16. That said, I can vouch that the Lyle Jamieson/Thompson 5/8" bowl gouge with the parabolic flutes is a dream tool. I got it because Al and a number of other experienced turners recommended it to me, and it was an instant game-changer for me.

And RH/Reed-As I'm learning to tame that challenging transition area, I too get a lot of use out of the NRS. I have learned to cant my D-Way large one over the rest for more of a cut than a scrape in that area when I'm struggling with the gouge, and it also helps with tear-out and evening things out all the way around, though I'm not as proficient with it yet as you scraper gurus. When the nose and the left side get dull, I move the tool rest around to the exterior and work on shaping and clean-up with the right edge before pulling up another burr with either a 600 CBN hand-hone or my carbide rod tool.

 

[Graham Dolby]

I have the Sorby and Henry Taylor bowl gouges, both are parabolic and both have the swept back "Irish" grind and use them interchangeably with no problems. I just compared them and the Sorby parabola is slightly tighter than the Taylor but in my experience, there is little to choose between them.
Incidentally, the Henry Taylor gouge, the "Superflute", was the first to employ the parabolic shape (if I recall correctly) and was designed by Roy Child, son of Peter Child, author of "The Craftsman Woodturner."

 

[Dave Bunge]

In my experience, a 5/8" bowl gouge is plenty large enough for 16" bowls. I use a Thompson V gouge.

It's helpful to have a tool rest that lets you support the gouge close to the surface you're cutting. The 14" J tool rest from Robust works well inside of the bowl.

Based on discussion here and elsewhere, I bought a Thompson U gouge and ground it to be a bottom feeder. I've been happy with it.

 

[Bill Blasic]

You will always find me with a Thompson 5/8V when doing any size open form piece whether it is an 18" bowl or a 2" top or anything in between. I wish Doug brought out those Thompson tools 3 years earlier when I first stated turning as I bought a lot of different bowl gouges those first three years. When Doug brought out his tools he gave me a 5/8V to try and I have never looked back. I told Doug early on that if he ever needed help selling that I would be glad to help and after a while he took me up on that and I have been in his booth extolling the virtues of the Thompson Tools at every AAW Symposium that I could drive to. For me there is no better tools or tool maker than Doug and his tools. If you ever talked to me at an AAW Symposium you have probably heard me say "My go to tool is the 5/8V."

 

[robo hippy]

Umm, every time I hear that Lyle's gouge has a parabolic flute, I go and recheck mine. It is a V flute, but is more open than Doug's standard V.

robo hippy

 

[Aaron Harris]

From his website: "This has a better flute configuration—Not a “V”, not a “U” shape—It is 12 inches long with a 7 inch long flute —It has a wider, parabolic flute shape than any other gouge made today—The flute change translates into easier, safer, better control."

Understand I'm not arguing with you, as I know you have orders of magnitude more experience with these things than I do. Is it possible that the flute shape on these has changed since you got yours? Mine honestly looks parabolic to be honest, but the wing angle may make it look more so. Whatever it is, I love it!

 

[odie]

Keep It Simple, Eh?!

You've got a bowl gouge that will work fine for normally shaped bowls in the size you are planning to turn. An Ellsworth grind will allow you to work from top to bottom inside the bowls and out.

Now go make 100 of them. When you've done that, you can make things as complicated as you like, with confidence.

Norm, Dean is giving some good advice here.

Don't get too wild with buying tools just yet......but, you might want to consider getting another gouge the next size smaller for starters. Once you have some time in the saddle, you will have a better idea of what you want......so, go make some bowls with what you have. Remember that all tools have one thing in common.....a sharp edge. If you can present that sharp edge to it's best advantage, you're going to get a good cut.

Right now, you're probably going to try a few different grinds, and developing proficiency in producing those grinds......so, you're likely to use up some steel fairly fast in the beginning. That will slow down some, once you know what you want with the grinds you've chosen. Sorby is good.....not the most expensive, nor the cheapest......good for starting out.

Your Sorby is probably M2 steel, and it's an excellent steel for woodturning. I'd stay with that for now. Many turners decide to move on to harder exotic steels as their proficiency gets better. Nothing wrong with that, and the advertising says the edge will last longer. Who could argue with wanting your cutting edge to last longer, right? It's true, the edge does last longer, but the sharpness zone between just sharp enough, and not sharp enough, is problematic from my POV. I've explained this more detail elsewhere.

Anyway, I have some tools with harder steels, but my mainstay is M2 for all my turning.

Your skews have very limited use for bowl turning.....and even at that, they are used in ways they were never intended. Skews are for spindle turning. I don't use them at all for my bowls.

There are some great books and commercial dvd videos on bowl turning. There are some good free videos on YouTube, but for the beginner, I'd suggest you get some of the commercial videos.......until, you have some basic concepts of safety, and what you personally want to do on your lathe.

Sorry for being so long-winded!

-----odie-----

 

[Roger Chandler]

I have bowl gouges from 1/4” Sorby, to 3/4” Thompson, with numerous of both 1/2” and 5/8” from several tool companies. I have ground my 3/4” Thompson ‘u” flute into a bottom feeder, and I use the 1/2” Thompson, Robust gouges the most, then 1/2” Serious Ultimate gouge a good bit as well. For roughing large bowls, I use a 5/8” Thompson, and 5/8” Serious Ultimate gouge. I use the 1/4” Sorby quite a bit also, depending on the type form and size of the project. It is especially good at making tenons and finishing off bottoms.

 

[Allen Mattsen]

Take this for what it's worth, as I am still a bowl-turning newbie and can't turn anything wider than about 11" on my Laguna 12/16. That said, I can vouch that the Lyle Jamieson/Thompson 5/8" bowl gouge with the parabolic flutes is a dream tool. I got it because Al and a number of other experienced turners recommended it to me, and it was an instant game-changer for me.

And RH/Reed-As I'm learning to tame that challenging transition area, I too get a lot of use out of the NRS. I have learned to cant my D-Way large one over the rest for more of a cut than a scrape in that area when I'm struggling with the gouge, and it also helps with tear-out and evening things out all the way around, though I'm not as proficient with it yet as you scraper gurus. When the nose and the left side get dull, I move the tool rest around to the exterior and work on shaping and clean-up with the right edge before pulling up another burr with either a 600 CBN hand-hone or my carbide rod tool.

I'm also a beginner, w/ about 6 months of every day turning, mostly bowls. Went from a 1216 to a 2436 a month ago.

That's become my main tool! The 5/8" Jamieson parabolic flute bowl gouge (Thompson V10 steel) w/ an Ellsworth grind. Great tool.

I also often use a 1/2" D-Way bowl gouge, 3/8" Thompson bowl gouge, 3/8 Thompson spindle gouge (tenon stuff), 1/2" D-Way bottom feeder, and a large D-Way NRS on my bowls. I put an Ellsworth grind on the 3 bowl gouges for now.

I havent used the 5/8" gouge on the 1216, I'd probably stall it. I think 1/2" and 3/8" gouges (USA/shaft measurement) are just right for the 1216, IMHO.

I likely will add a 40/40 gouge, larger bottom feeder, and maybe a 3/4 gouge.

Most of my choices have come from feedback on this site, another forum, and talking with other local turners. I second the idea of using a hand hone or two. I use the "Carbur 2" and Lacer teardrop hones (pictured). .

 

[Dean]

Welcome to the bowl turning Norm. Lots of advice here. Don’t get too confused. The skew your sharpened with two bevels with the round nose is now a NRS scraper which will come in handy in the bottom of the bowl other than that I use a scraper to set the tenon sharpened like the jaws of my chuck. I use a Irish grind and a bottom or original grind for the size you wanting to do 5/8 will be just fine this is all you need. I do prefer the parabolic grooves, many companies make them, I like the Oneway M4 stuff and carter but all work just fine. I agree with odie m2 is the standard and most of my tools are m2 hamlet stuff. Be careful and have fun most of all

 

[Tom Robbins]

Would I be better off grinding the Sorby for a bottoming gouge and buy a Thompson or crown Ellsworth v shape flute? Thanks again for the info.

I use the Crown Ellsworth exclusively. The parabolic flute is important! In fact, it’s my go-to tool for many things…even small spinning tops.