That question doesnt sound proper. What part of log, slab? Whatever. What kind of a piece of wood should I be looking for to turn a vase. I assume I dont want to be hollowing out end grain, but I also assume I dont want the pith going right thru the side of my vase either. It would seem as though I would need a massive log to get a vase with much height. Any direction would be appreciated. Thanks, Shane
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What part of wood for a vase?
- Thread starter steelheader
- Start date
Very tall vases that I have seen are usually done by segmented or laminated styles, however, there is absolutely nothing wrong with end grain orientations offset to either side of the pith. A large burl will also produce some outstanding results, but, to cut out blocks for a very tall vase the same as you would for a bowl is not exactly practical for most of us. The only thing against end grain work is, it can be more difficult without the correct tool. I have a termite tool that makes end grain cut like butter. In fact, it cuts end grain so well that it is very easy to get carried away with it.
Nick
Nick
Steve Worcester
Admin Emeritus
It kind of depends on what species you want to use and how large a vase you want to make.
I have endgrain hollowed Sycamore to 24" deep. Not the simplest project, but it is possible. If I wanted to do a side grain piece, the tree would have to be abour 40" in diameter, or better. That's a big darn tree.
I have endgrain hollowed Sycamore to 24" deep. Not the simplest project, but it is possible. If I wanted to do a side grain piece, the tree would have to be abour 40" in diameter, or better. That's a big darn tree.
Thank you
It sounds like I was thinking about right. Anyone have a recommendation on a good affordable tool for hollowing end grain. I tried it on some of my english walnut with a good sharp bowl gouge, it just kept catching. Thanks again, Shane
It sounds like I was thinking about right. Anyone have a recommendation on a good affordable tool for hollowing end grain. I tried it on some of my english walnut with a good sharp bowl gouge, it just kept catching. Thanks again, Shane
Steelhead,
Most large vases you see will have been done in spindle/end grain orientation. It takes quite a tree to accomplish this without a pith present, but I have done so many times with the pith straight down the middle. Pith cracks, but usually it can be controlled with CA so its nothing more than a star. Some folks drill out the pith and plug it. The advantage of turning straight down the middle of the log is the wood will move far less than when done otherwise, and some really great grain patterns present themselves that usually go all the way around the vase rather than on one side.
The difficulty, as you have noted, is that end grain is very hard. It helps to understand the "cutting downhill" concept on end grain, in that hollowing is usually done from the center out towards the rim so you're not working against the grain, which is terribly difficult. Most folks will drill a pilot hole to depth and then work from the center out rather than center in. With a scraping tool this isn't absolutely necessary but it is still quite a bit easier. With a normal edged tool - well, give it a try.
There is another technique which I have yet to master - don't think I need to, but it involves turning from the center and up and around to the right in an arc. Del Stubbs in his video demonstrates this. It looks easy, and is very effective, but it takes practice. I prefer instead to simply go from center to rim in a horizontal plane towards the left.
Also, on the outside, cutting downhill is necessary, too. That is from rim to base instead of what we typically do when we form an exterior - from base to rim. You won't believe how much easier it is, and more often than not, you'll learn better tool control because most turners don't ever turn in that direction.
I do wonder why this is giving you more catches than normal - with proper technique it should not at all, but instead only require a bit more effort. Perhaps if you shared how you are going about it we could help eliminate the catches. But first, try it from inside out and see if it isn't easier.
Hope this helps some.
Most large vases you see will have been done in spindle/end grain orientation. It takes quite a tree to accomplish this without a pith present, but I have done so many times with the pith straight down the middle. Pith cracks, but usually it can be controlled with CA so its nothing more than a star. Some folks drill out the pith and plug it. The advantage of turning straight down the middle of the log is the wood will move far less than when done otherwise, and some really great grain patterns present themselves that usually go all the way around the vase rather than on one side.
The difficulty, as you have noted, is that end grain is very hard. It helps to understand the "cutting downhill" concept on end grain, in that hollowing is usually done from the center out towards the rim so you're not working against the grain, which is terribly difficult. Most folks will drill a pilot hole to depth and then work from the center out rather than center in. With a scraping tool this isn't absolutely necessary but it is still quite a bit easier. With a normal edged tool - well, give it a try.
There is another technique which I have yet to master - don't think I need to, but it involves turning from the center and up and around to the right in an arc. Del Stubbs in his video demonstrates this. It looks easy, and is very effective, but it takes practice. I prefer instead to simply go from center to rim in a horizontal plane towards the left.
Also, on the outside, cutting downhill is necessary, too. That is from rim to base instead of what we typically do when we form an exterior - from base to rim. You won't believe how much easier it is, and more often than not, you'll learn better tool control because most turners don't ever turn in that direction.
I do wonder why this is giving you more catches than normal - with proper technique it should not at all, but instead only require a bit more effort. Perhaps if you shared how you are going about it we could help eliminate the catches. But first, try it from inside out and see if it isn't easier.
Hope this helps some.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
You shouldn't be getting catches hollowing a vase if the tool is used correctly. I use a bowl gouge mostly but a ring tool and hook tool are both good. They also require learning new technique.
To use the bowl gouge I turn the flute to 9 oclock and cut with the bottom edge. The top edge should just barely clear the wood. Keep the cutting edge on the center of the vessel at 9 oclock.
A vase is one of the vessels in which it is safer to leave the pith but this depends on the shape. If the vessel is cone shaped with the pith at the bottom there are fewer problems. This is because when the wood tries to move the circle tries to elongate and get smaller. In a cone shaped vessel it will get taller and the sides will warp or shrink. If you took the same piece of wood and cut if off a slice off the log so it's flat the wood will crack. The outer rings dry faster than the middle and when they shrink and get smaller something has to give so it cracks. A cone shaped vessel will warp.
I don't know if Dave Barriger has a web site but if you get to see any of his big vessels you will see how he handles the pith problem
Gosh after all that I just realized that for the most part I turn Vases out of half the log leaving the pith out. This reduces many of the problems but it depends on how you want the figure of the wood to look.
To use the bowl gouge I turn the flute to 9 oclock and cut with the bottom edge. The top edge should just barely clear the wood. Keep the cutting edge on the center of the vessel at 9 oclock.
A vase is one of the vessels in which it is safer to leave the pith but this depends on the shape. If the vessel is cone shaped with the pith at the bottom there are fewer problems. This is because when the wood tries to move the circle tries to elongate and get smaller. In a cone shaped vessel it will get taller and the sides will warp or shrink. If you took the same piece of wood and cut if off a slice off the log so it's flat the wood will crack. The outer rings dry faster than the middle and when they shrink and get smaller something has to give so it cracks. A cone shaped vessel will warp.
I don't know if Dave Barriger has a web site but if you get to see any of his big vessels you will see how he handles the pith problem
Gosh after all that I just realized that for the most part I turn Vases out of half the log leaving the pith out. This reduces many of the problems but it depends on how you want the figure of the wood to look.
steelheader said:
OneWay has the Termite Ring tool that comes with everything you need including sharpening stone. http://www.oneway.on.ca/tools/termite.htm
It will not replace learning good techniques with a bowl gouge, but, it sure is a relief from the anticipation of the next seemingly inevitable catch.
I also have the Sorby Hollowmaster tool that has the flattened bottom side. This tool is under rated and is actually very good. It's drawback is that instructions are included and require following to sharpen the bits correctly. Most of us know less than we think (me included) and immediately start to grinding them. That will not work! You will need a flat stone, not included.