What to do about spur-center and spindle with machining groves

[Sarah S Elkind]

Brand new Record Envoy lathe (which, so far, is delightful). But I'm finding the drive center extremely difficult to remove because both the inside of the spindle and the drive center's morris taper have fine machining grooves on them. A second, new drive center from The Woodturning Store is the same. I've never seen this before; I've always seen mirror-smooth surfaces inside spindles and on morris tapers.
Should I try to smooth either or both surfaces with some very fine emery or crocus paper?

 

[Richard Coers]

Tapers work because of the smooth surface providing all the contact area. I would think that tooling with grooves would hold less tight because of the surfaces having less contact are. I'd return the Woodworking Store parts and order from Oneway. You may have to have the headstock and tailstock remachined as well if there are surface grooves from spinning metal to metal surfaces.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

Brand new Record Envoy lathe (which, so far, is delightful). But I'm finding the drive center extremely difficult to remove because both the inside of the spindle and the drive center's morris taper have fine machining grooves on them. A second, new drive center from The Woodturning Store is the same. I've never seen this before; I've always seen mirror-smooth surfaces inside spindles and on morris tapers.
Should I try to smooth either or both surfaces with some very fine emery or crocus paper?

I guess I do not understand the problem. Did the lathe come with a knock-out bar?

 

[Doug Freeman]

pictures of the suspect surfaces, with a raking, reflected light, would help. Some of mine I can feel light machining marks with a fingernail, and the work fine.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Obviously something is wrong here. The internal Morse taper in the spindle should be smooth. You might order a reamer from Amazon to clean the internal taper. A finishing reamer can clean up any burrs in the taper. Lightly turn it in the taper with just enough pressure to clean the taper, but not remove any material to speak of. Turn the reamer with a wrench on square end. A center in the tailstock can be used to put very light pressure on the reamer.

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Reamer-Accuracy-Straight-Milling/dp/B091KBFR4Q/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3DHTTCIBC8I4Y&keywords=morse+taper+reamer+mt2&qid=1685575149&sprefix=morse+taer+reamer%2Caps%2C152&sr=8-4

Don't put Morse tapers in your spindle if they have a rough surface.

 

[john lucas]

Hand reaming can through it off center. I would send it back if possible. I've never seen a Morse taper that was not smooth.ive seen some that were not polished but that was really rare.

 

[Doug Rasmussen]

Hand reaming can through it off center. I would send it back if possible. I've never seen a Morse taper that was not smooth.ive seen some that were not polished but that was really rare.

Yes, reaming could throw a taper off center. That's why I emphasized a finishing reamer and very light pressure, only enough to remove any burrs or raised areas. It's a common thing to do on even high precision machinery.

What is not a good idea is to try sand any rough areas.

If tapers do get badly damaged there are ways to make them as good as new while the spindle is still in the machine. But, not worth the investment on a wood lathe where an off center taper is hardly noticeable.

 

[Sarah S Elkind]

Tapers work because of the smooth surface providing all the contact area. I would think that tooling with grooves would hold less tight because of the surfaces having less contact are. I'd return the Woodworking Store parts and order from Oneway. You may have to have the headstock and tailstock remachined as well if there are surface grooves from spinning metal to metal surfaces.

Hand reaming can through it off center. I would send it back if possible. I've never seen a Morse taper that was not smooth.ive seen some that were not polished but that was really rare.

Thanks all! The lathe is brand new - I’m contacting the vendor and manufacturer to see what they can or will do. Here's a picture of the machining marks.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Sarah, I did answer your question, but discovered the post did't make it, so I'll try this second time.

I would not accept what you got as a finish in your lathe spindle, period.

Morse Tapers, both male and female are to be very smooth, they are normally ground to a mirror like surface, not just turned as what appears to be done in yours.

Here are a couple pictures of my lathe spindle, you can see the inside some and the ground mating surface for a chuck to but up against, (sorry for the wood dust)

Also the MT surfaces on the male parts of the live centres and the driver.

I would not accept less and return these pieces, it is just shoddy machining, trying to cut cost by cutting corners in the machining.

 

[Tom De Winter]

I would probably stress over this too. You expect and deserve better. It will be interesting to hear what Record Power says.

However, I'll bet it works/holds just fine and won't cause problems down the road.

 

[Joe Kaufman]

Looks like Record Power had a spindle slip through assembly that missed the secondary machining or finishing on the spindle taper. I would not attempt correcting the problem by reaming w/o significant compensation from Record Power. Cleaning up the spindle taper with a hand reamer can be difficult if the spindle has been hardened.

 

[Sarah S Elkind]

Thanks, everyone. I'll post here to let you know what I hear from Record Power.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hand reaming can through it off center…..

Not if you do it right. Hand reamers are intended to only remove raised metal caused by galling when a drive center slips in the spindle MT socket. A finishing hand reamer should never be used to resurface the entire MT socket. Don’t use a heavy duty reamer. As Doug Rasmussen said, use only very light pressure and usually a couple rotations of the reamer should be sufficient to remove the raised metal. Also be sure to use a small amount of light oil (3-in-1) on the Morse taper reamer.

Don't put Morse tapers in your spindle if they have a rough surface.

That should be one of the Ten Commandments of woodturning. I suspect that the vast majority of woodturners don’t understand the importance of that "commandment".

 

[Tim Otto]

The only problem I have with the 2mt shank spur center is that I have to remove the vacuum seal attachment to drive the center out....... then put it back on so it is ready when I need it.

So, I took a few of my 2mt spur centers down to my local gunsmiths shop.........a man who routinely builds $15k rifles, and use his lathe to turn the taper off of the center leaving about a .3750 straight shank with a 1/16th shoulder. In use, I mount and talon chuck with pen jaws and voila, ready to turn. Because the straight shank is turned with care, I also use a Bealle collet chuck for small stuff., but I hesitate to tighten it too much as the collets were not designed for metal. When necessary, I still have a couple of 2mt centers to use.

As the lgreat "Spider" John Koener used to say...."theys all kinna ways I 'spose"