• Beware of Counterfeit Woodturning Tools (click here for details)
  • Johnathan Silwones is starting a new AAW chapter, Southern Alleghenies Woodturners, in Johnstown, PA. (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Paul May for "Checkerboard (ver 3.0)" being selected as Turning of the Week for March 25, 2024 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Where's the AAW logo???

Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
212
Likes
0
Website
www.mikecunninghamwoodturner.com
I know Bob Rosand and trust his judgement without question. If he felt strongly enough about what he was told that it caused him to resign as a contributing editor and then go so far as to post about it, then I believe there's more than just an unfounded rumor floating around.

For one or more to arbitrarily remove our logo or graphic of our logo if you prefer, from the cover of our journal with no explanation until all of this occurs is unacceptable. That behavior simply fueled this.

As for the explanation that the removal "gave the magazine a more streamlined and contemporary look".......please.

I also wonder if the removal was discussed beforehand with the entire BOD as well as the Executive Director, the person that we hired to run the association on a daily basis. To me the removal of an organization's logo from the cover of it's journal is more than putting "your stamp on it". Further I have to question the motives of it's removal as putting "one's stamp on it".

As for someone starting this "rumor" to cause a riff within the organization, there are other things occurring that are causing a problem within the organization and they're not rumors, go to chapter meetings, regional symposia, talk to members and listen to them..........there are indeed problems.
 
Last edited:

john lucas

AAW Forum Expert
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
8,321
Likes
3,576
Location
Cookeville, TN
Ditto Carole I agree with what you have to say about the Giles piece. One thing we have to consider, is an artist makes what they make simply to create the piece in one's mind. This could have possibly been done in ceramics but because Giles works in wood and understands wood, he used wood.
I photographed a show a few years back that was all ceramic. They looked like logs, cut with a chainsaw and laying on the floor. The detail was incredible and the layout or placement of the logs became very sculptural. The question was always asked, why didn't she just use logs. Well it's quite simple. She was a ceramic artist, that's her medium and what she understands.
Whether the Giles piece looks like wood or not simply goes back to the old argument of people hating painted or carved pieces. Some people are simply unwilling to accept that other turners might actually like this work (count me as one of those) I don't care what it's made of but since it is made from turned wood then it deserves a place in a woodworking magazine.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
42
Likes
0
Location
WA State
Website
www.etsy.com
A Weekend Storm of Disapproval

This is an opinion from a relatively new, and thus far, inactive member. I'm tied into the writing community for woodworking in general, and I don't remember ever seeing such an 'alligator tank' reaction over an association's journal. The fact that these rumors erupted on a weekend and were fear-mongered out of all proportion, has been overlooked in the interest of a few who seek center stage instead of doing a little fact finding before going public with attention-grabbing subject lines on various message boards. It is sad, really, that the prevalent attitude seems to be 'what can I whip up with this?' instead of 'how can I help the association correct it?'

And then there is this:
It's not just the missing logo, the logo is just one of a string of things that members have been finding not to there liking and the AAW does not have the respect the members deserve to answer ligitimate questions. I don't think you've been around long enough to make the judgment call you've made.

I don't think, Mr. Troy, that any member of the association should be denied an opinion based on length of tenure. If you've been a board member and a regular contributor, you may know more of the 'insider' information on individual personalities, but why be so upset over a lack of replies from board members when waiting until regular office hours could answer many of your questions?

As to a new editor putting her 'stamp' on the journal, that is routine, and widely accepted. If Betty Scarpino had made no changes in the journal, a hue and cry would have been raised that the new editor was publishing the 'same old, same old,' and was an ineffective change. She has editorial discretion, and has no need to consult the entire board before changing the cover design. Live with it.

Balancing the material to be included involves working with what is available. I've been invited twice to write and submit articles for the journal, but truth be told, it seems contributors would be wading into a swamp of piranhas, the way readers have been criticizing its content. I don't know what Bob Rosand's complaint is about the journal or the organization, but it had to be something more than distaste for a rumor as unbelievable as a pornographic complaint about a logo. I may get brave enough to submit a beginner's project article in future; I'm thinking about a subject. Why don't some of you join in, and give the editor a wider range of material choices to consider? The editor is there to edit, so lack of writing skills is not an excuse. it is ideas she needs, and they should be taking the place of all these rants and criticisms based only on personal tastes.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2004
Messages
310
Likes
0
Location
Henderson Kentucky
Website
www.seantroy.com
This is an opinion from a relatively new, and thus far, inactive member. I'm tied into the writing community for woodworking in general, and I don't remember ever seeing such an 'alligator tank' reaction over an association's journal. The fact that these rumors erupted on a weekend and were fear-mongered out of all proportion, has been overlooked in the interest of a few who seek center stage instead of doing a little fact finding before going public with attention-grabbing subject lines on various message boards. It is sad, really, that the prevalent attitude seems to be 'what can I whip up with this?' instead of 'how can I help the association correct it?'

And then there is this:


I don't think, Mr. Troy, that any member of the association should be denied an opinion based on length of tenure. If you've been a board member and a regular contributor, you may know more of the 'insider' information on individual personalities, but why be so upset over a lack of replies from board members when waiting until regular office hours could answer many of your questions?

As to a new editor putting her 'stamp' on the journal, that is routine, and widely accepted. If Betty Scarpino had made no changes in the journal, a hue and cry would have been raised that the new editor was publishing the 'same old, same old,' and was an ineffective change. She has editorial discretion, and has no need to consult the entire board before changing the cover design. Live with it.

Balancing the material to be included involves working with what is available. I've been invited twice to write and submit articles for the journal, but truth be told, it seems contributors would be wading into a swamp of piranhas, the way readers have been criticizing its content. I don't know what Bob Rosand's complaint is about the journal or the organization, but it had to be something more than distaste for a rumor as unbelievable as a pornographic complaint about a logo. I may get brave enough to submit a beginner's project article in future; I'm thinking about a subject. Why don't some of you join in, and give the editor a wider range of material choices to consider? The editor is there to edit, so lack of writing skills is not an excuse. it is ideas she needs, and they should be taking the place of all these rants and criticisms based only on personal tastes.

Don't twist my words, I never said anyone should be denied an opinion. I only stated if you don't have all the information (being around long enough to know whats been going on) then you can't possibly have an informed opinion.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2006
Messages
45
Likes
0
Location
Leicester in the middle of the UK
Website
www.loseby.co.uk
AAW Logo

In my UK schooling, I was impressed by US history and one of the most impressive speeches was the Gettysburg Address with the words "of the people, by the people, for the people".

It would seem to me that the people here (the members) want the logo back. Would it not be better for whoever made this decision to accept that their personal opinion on this matter is not what the people want and to reinstate the logo forthwith?

As for my own opinion, I think it is an excellent and well known logo - long may it reign.

Paul
 
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
187
Likes
0
Location
Crystal River Valley - Colorado
Well said

Just for grins, here's input from another new kid on the block.
Barb Siddique's post is a refreshingly sane response to this situation. Of course an editor can change graphics in a magazine to suit his/her fancy without consulting the board. Editors are hired with exactly that authority, and indeed are hired with full authority to execute their own vision, a vision which is explored and approved by the board during the hiring process.
Neither the board, or the membership, should be in the business of micromanaging day to day editorial choices. It's not their job, and were they to do so the editor's position would be impossible. I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder, while turning, telling me what the rim of this bowl ought to look like either, and neither do you.
All of the fuss about lack of instant response to this "crisis" is absurd too. I sure as heck would not have interrupted my weekend to respond to this kind of hysteria, I would have waited until I was back on the clock on Monday morning, which is exactly what happened.
Some folks are clearly disenchanted with a number of things about the AAW. Fair enough. But we get nowhere with all these egos banging into each other.
It's tiresome and unproductive.
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
384
Likes
8
Response from AW editor

Yes, I was out of town at a woodturning symposium in Virginia and had no internet connection. This morning I had editorial obligations to attend to. Then my internet connection disappeared, twice. So, finally, here's my reply to what's being said. Seemingly, I have everyone's attention . . . .

There will always be differing opinions on any topic. Here is the process I went through to redesign the cover of the journal. In December, I worked with the layout and design company, Albarella, to come up with a cover for the journal where the title art and images were more contemporary looking and more streamlined, leaving more room for a single image. Additionally, we wanted the words American Woodturner to be more easily visible and readable. The graphic of the logo, in our opinions, was outdated and did not lend itself to the new typeface we'd selected for the title of the journal, so we removed it. Our decision to remove the graphic of the logo was based entirely on two reasons: wanting a more contemporary look and a cover that was more clean and crisp.

In December, the redesigned cover was shown to Jean LeGwin, chair of the Publications Committee. She liked the new look. The Executive Director also saw the redesigned cover in December (Albarella delivered a copy personally to the ED) and at that time, there were no objections voiced to what Albarella and I had come up with.

In May I had a discussion with the Executive Director who strongly, through action and word, expressed her wishes to have the graphic of the logo returned to the cover of the journal. In a subsequent conversation with the ED, I agreed to entertain a discussion, through proper channels, of having the graphic returned to the cover of the journal. I am terribly upset to see that this discussion is now taking place in the way it is currently being done.

I remain supportive of a discussion about having the graphic of the logo on the cover of the journal. The Publications Committee is my direct link to the AAW, so I primarily work through them. I understand that Pubs Committee has discussed this issue and will do so again, perhaps taking a proposal to the Board.

Just to set the record straight, I do not personally think AAW's logo is phallic or pornographic. Like many of you I wear name badges with the logo on them and T-shirts with the logo as part of the design. My reasons for removing the graphic from the cover had to do with Albarella's and my desire for a more contemporary and crisp look to the journal's cover.

Sincerely, Betty
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Messages
576
Likes
2
Location
Hanover, VA
Website
www.abhats.com
Gee, Carole, since a photo is all there is and I certainly can't hold the thing in my hands, I'd suggest you join an organization that promotes painting three dimensional things. That's where it belongs and it would certainly be an award winner, but I strongly believe it does not belong on the cover of a WOOD TURNING organization. That's what we're supposed to be, but more and more folks seem to want to include everything up to body piercing (what the hey, it's only one step removed from vessel piercing, right?). Just saying 'it's all art' misses the point of what this thing was started as. I can't convince beginner club members to join AAW when the focus is on things far beyond what they want to do or are capable of doing. The front cover says what AAW is all about - doesn't matter what's inside.
 
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
42
Likes
0
Location
WA State
Website
www.etsy.com
Let's Order A New T-Shirt!

I think everyone who admires the AAW logo ought to order a new T-shirt to show their support!
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
270
Likes
1
Location
SoCal
Don't twist my words, I never said anyone should be denied an opinion. I only stated if you don't have all the information (being around long enough to know whats been going on) then you can't possibly have an informed opinion.

I may not have what you consider an informed opinion (give me a freakin' break, BTW), but on the other hand, I certainly don't have the same apparent agenda you do. There are obviously some things in the past and present that upset you about the AAW board (and which have absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed). To tell others to shut up because we aren't upset in the same manner as you is not only rude but asinine. Feel free to beat your dead horse, but don't tell me I'm "not informed" if I refuse to beat it with you.

I also have a publishing background, and I agree with Barb's view on this. Editors make design changes. Get over it. Frankly I'm amazed at the number of members who blithely jumped on the "phallic symbol" rumor bandwagon with absolutely no facts or other pertinent information.

Man, tough crowd. :rolleyes:
 
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
334
Likes
0
Location
Sinking Spring Pa.
Ok i'll add my 1.5 cents I'm so uninformed that untill this thread I didn't realize what the logo was. But as a new member I found this latest issue(only the second one I got) Very informative and enjoyed having it so far. So yes new members do look deeper than the cover ( wich again I never even thought it would be anything other than a nicely painted turning) and would like to say Good Job Betty.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
80
Likes
1
Location
Onley, VA
Website
www.carolevalentine.com
Gee, Carole, since a photo is all there is and I certainly can't hold the thing in my hands, I'd suggest you join an organization that promotes painting three dimensional things. That's where it belongs and it would certainly be an award winner, but I strongly believe it does not belong on the cover of a WOOD TURNING organization. That's what we're supposed to be, but more and more folks seem to want to include everything up to body piercing (what the hey, it's only one step removed from vessel piercing, right?). Just saying 'it's all art' misses the point of what this thing was started as. I can't convince beginner club members to join AAW when the focus is on things far beyond what they want to do or are capable of doing. The front cover says what AAW is all about - doesn't matter what's inside.

Well Walt, we are all entitled to our opinions. Different organizations for different folks! I'll tell you why I am perfectly happy with the AAW and all the various facets of woodturning (including painting, embellishments, piercing, carving, etc.) that it presents. I am happy with it because it expands my horizons rather than restricting them, and I need all the help I can get in jump-starting my imagination. I'm happy with it it because at any given point in my turning life, I have found something of value in each issue, and as I advanced in skill I could go back to earlier issues and find more things that may not have have interested me or caught my attention at the time but became meaningful as my skills developed. I'm happy with it because it covers everything from how to harvest bowl blanks and chainsaw safety to sharpening tools to turning a simple spindle/bowl/platter/pen to showcasing impossibly artistic pieces that I admire but probably won't live long enough to ever attempt.
Nope, I plan to stay right where I am - with the AAW and all it's diversity. You on the other hand, being as unhappy as you seem to be with the organization, may want to check out the CWA.
 

John Jordan

In Memorium
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
506
Likes
965
Location
Cane Ridge (Nashville), TN
Website
www.johnjordanwoodturning.com
Pretty amazing that no one was PO'd, or even NOTICED that the logo was absent until someone pointed it out AFTER the second issue came out. It looks much better in my opinion.

Giles Gilson has been a member of AAW from the beginning and has been instrumental to the growth of woodturning for 25 years. That is why he has been honored, and there could be nothing more appropriate for the cover. Perhaps a little research into the history of contemporary woodturning would help.:)

WWWD?

John
 

hockenbery

Forum MVP
Beta Tester
TOTW Team
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
8,592
Likes
4,889
Location
Lakeland, Florida
Website
www.hockenberywoodturning.com
Betty,
Thanks for another great journal.

John,
I first met Giles at the mini symposium in Maryland where I also met a fine fellow from Tennessee who was turning magnolia from some campus (Vanderbilt?).


Walt,
Giles was a unanimous selection for the 2009 Life time member. Having one of his pieces on the front cover seems to be most appropriate.
Part of waht the AAW is about is honoring those who have made significant contributions to woodturning and to the AAW.

I don't like every piece shown in the journal. I would find it kind of boring to see only pieces I liked.
The piece on the cover is a spectacular form. I have to admire just the silhouette. If it were painted solid black its beauty of form would shine through.
Most beginners appreciate form. Folks come to me who have never turned wanting to learn how to make forms like the one on the cover.

happy turning,
Al
 
Last edited:
Back
Top