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Wolverine Grinding Wheel Dresser

pencheff

pencheff

Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
224
Likes
1
Location
Lancaster, PA
Website
www.gvpencheff.com
I've been turning less than two years and like everyone else am learning the finer points of sharpening through trial and error, experimentation and dumb luck. I'm also a precision junkie and sharpening with a jig appeals to my perfectionist side.

At the end of last year I switched from using the PSI Wolverine imitator (documented elsewhere in the forum) to using the real McCoy. They both work but the Oneway system is better designed in some crucial respects. Recently I added the wheel dresser attachment to my Wolverine outfit.

I've been dressing my grinding wheels with one of those gizmos that looks like an old safety razor (not that I'm old enough to remember those gillettes and schicks). I thought I was doing a decent job with 'em too. Unh uh. I've just discovered when dressing a grinding wheel that there's smooth and then there's Really smoooth and really flat! That's what the Oneway dresser does for me.

I use two Aluminum Oxide Norton wheels on my 8" grinder, a 120 and an 80 grit. Before, even after very carefully leveling the wheels (or so I thought), I'd still experience some minor tool bounce... and I use a wheel balancer too (Oneway must love me)! And the fine wheel would develop gouge trenches fairly quickly after just a few sharpenings.

I've only used the Wolverine dresser once on each wheel since I got the thing. I've sharpened every turning tool I own at least once, the gouges and scrapers a few times each, and still the wheels are staying flat and true. No gouge trenches developing, no "bounce" and I'm getting a beautiful flat face on my extra heavy duty Sorby scrapers. I'm not sharpening with a lighter touch, just doing things as I've learned to do, so I have to attribute this to the Oneway wheel dresser.

This gizmo is the bees knees. Just wanted to share that with everyone.
 
I use both. I use the T diamond dressor to clean and flatten the wheel. If I start to get any bounce I use My homemade version of the Oneway dresser.
 
Just like John I use a T dresser for every day cleaning and every few months I use the Oneway dresser if I feel it is needed. I find the T dresser requires a gentle touch to keep the wheel perfectly round.
 
I have the Oneway Wheel Balancing System and got the Dressing System right before Christmas. My highest praise to both. I use the Dressing System every so often with the diamond dresser in between.
 
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Barry Craven said:
Greg like some of the others here I use a hand held dresser (three types)mostly and the Wolverine attchment when needed. ;)
Click to expand...

All I know is I've only used the Wolverine gizmo once since I received it and the wheels are still smoother and running truer than they ever did, even after immediate use of the hand held dresser. Must be my ham fisted technique with the hand held wheel dresser or maybe the dresser itself is too aggressive. I imagine if the hand held dresser could be roughing up the surface of the wheel at the microscopic level, even though the surface appears smooth. If so then these "friable" wheels would wear away faster. Yeah, that's it. It's not ME at all :rolleyes:

One other major benefit of the Wolverine gizmo and the real reason I bought it is that it dresses the face of the wheel square in relation to the long arm attachment. Makes a big difference to me when sharpening skew chisels.
 
Jamie Straw said:
Ah! You're holding out on us, John.:p Picture? Details? I'm looking for something inbetween the $10 nickel-plated T-dresser sold everywhere, and the dressers that cost $70-$100+++
Click to expand...

How did you manage to find this old thread? :D It looks like he's been holding out for about nine years and it's time that he gave us the details.
 
I think I show how to do it on my grinders video clip with a cheap T type dresser where you can true both sides and face of the wheels if you have a good platform. Bite the bullet and buy a CBN wheel, and you never have to think about it any more....

robo hippy
 
Other turners spend way too much time, expense, and effort with precision grinding than is necessary. If others are doing it this way, then it must be a necessity, or the best way......right? Well......wrong. :rolleyes:

When you need to dress, then a hand held diamond dresser will do the job just fine. Precision alignment of dressed surface, and the appearance of the tool grind isn't an important key to success in turning......but, sharpness is a key element that has no compromise. Once you get sharp, then developing your personal skill level is a whole new dimension that isn't possible without first opening that door. Without these things......well, there is always sanding to rescue your work! But, who wants to sand more than you need to?

There are turners who swear up and down that their tools are sharp, when they could get their tools sharp....er! :p I suppose this is what happens when a multitude of opinions converge.......better known as "herd think". This does more for promoting things that are unnecessary, and/or don't work.....or doing things that are a "negative gain", than anything else. This is not to discount the good advice that can be had from "the herd", but it takes more time to sort out the good from the negative and unnecessary.....than could have been......if one used his (her) naturally acquired instincts. :D

(OMG......here's that odie talkin' 'bout the herd again! :))

ko
 
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Wow I don't think I have the dresser anymore but I'll look this morning. I do use the T dresser now days but will stop every now and then and use the Geiger dresser. The T dresser cleans the wheel and smooths out the little dips if you do it frequently. If you wait until you have deep grooves then you have to push the dresser harder and it's very easy to get the wheel out of round. When I first started trying to dress the wheel I had troubles keeping the wheel round so my tool was still bouncing when you grind. A bouncing tool is simply harder to sharpen. When I first tried using a friends Oneway wheel dresser it was almost as good as when I got the CBN wheel. The tool ran so smooth it was far easier to control the cut and get a smooth non faceted grind. After using my homemade version for a while my wheel was usually only off a tiny bit and I found that a light touch with the T dresser did the job. In fact I use it to knock off the corners of my stone because I use that rounded edge to sharpen my smaller hollowing tools. Using the T dresser is kind of like learning to sharpen. At first you push too hard and it bounces with the wheel and you just sort of agravate the problem. Yea it's flat across the top but the tool still bounces, maybe not as bad. When you learn a light touch gently moving the T dresser side to side you can get it pretty darn close to round, although it might not be perpindicular to the rotation which in turning isn't really a problem. I did damage a T dresser one time and took a nick out of my wheel in the process. Move your tool rest very close so the T dresser is fully supported. I had gotten lazy and instead of replacing the V arm with the flat tool rest I was setting the T dresser on the bottom flange of the protective wheel cover. Did that for a year or more before it bit me so I can tell you that experience taught me to use the darn flat tool rest like you should.
Wow I found my old grinder wheel video and it has photos of the various wheel truing jigs. I'm telling you there's nothing like a really true running flat wheel. I still prefer the Geiger What I like about the Geiger dresser is that it rotates the single point diamond every adjustment so it keeps the diamond honed. When I made my first single point diamond dresser it wore the diamond. Yea I know you would think it won't do that but it does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq2tPttFpC8
 
john lucas said:
Wow I don't think I have the dresser anymore but I'll look this morning. I do use the T dresser now days but will stop every now and then and use the Geiger dresser. The T dresser cleans the wheel and smooths out the little dips if you do it frequently. If you wait until you have deep grooves then you have to push the dresser harder and it's very easy to get the wheel out of round. When I first started trying to dress the wheel I had troubles keeping the wheel round so my tool was still bouncing when you grind. A bouncing tool is simply harder to sharpen. When I first tried using a friends Oneway wheel dresser it was almost as good as when I got the CBN wheel. The tool ran so smooth it was far easier to control the cut and get a smooth non faceted grind. After using my homemade version for a while my wheel was usually only off a tiny bit and I found that a light touch with the T dresser did the job. In fact I use it to knock off the corners of my stone because I use that rounded edge to sharpen my smaller hollowing tools. Using the T dresser is kind of like learning to sharpen. At first you push too hard and it bounces with the wheel and you just sort of agravate the problem. Yea it's flat across the top but the tool still bounces, maybe not as bad. When you learn a light touch gently moving the T dresser side to side you can get it pretty darn close to round, although it might not be perpindicular to the rotation which in turning isn't really a problem. I did damage a T dresser one time and took a nick out of my wheel in the process. Move your tool rest very close so the T dresser is fully supported. I had gotten lazy and instead of replacing the V arm with the flat tool rest I was setting the T dresser on the bottom flange of the protective wheel cover. Did that for a year or more before it bit me so I can tell you that experience taught me to use the darn flat tool rest like you should.
Wow I found my old grinder wheel video and it has photos of the various wheel truing jigs. I'm telling you there's nothing like a really true running flat wheel. I still prefer the Geiger What I like about the Geiger dresser is that it rotates the single point diamond every adjustment so it keeps the diamond honed. When I made my first single point diamond dresser it wore the diamond. Yea I know you would think it won't do that but it does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq2tPttFpC8
Click to expand...

I highlighted some of your key points, John........

I will disagree with you on one point, though......with the hand held diamond dresser, you can get as flat as a any jig can do. It just takes more time effort and expense to do it with a jig. :p In the medical tool industry, we use hydraulic diamond dressers to shape grinding wheels, but this is only necessary for irregular shapes. When doing handwork on instruments, a hand held diamond dresser (when properly used.....hence your mentioning of a learning curve) does result in a perfectly flat surface. If the dressing tool is made perfectly flat, the wheel will be perfectly flat. It does definitely take a light touch, and it's easy to tell if it is, or isn't being held offset to the wheel surface being ground.

ko
 
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I dress my wheels flat across the face whenever they get uneven or a groove from grinding tools.
My favorite dresser is something called a Diamond Jim I bought long ago. It has a small block of diamond imbedded material on the front end that has lasted around 20 years so far.
I like it better than the aluminum tee bars because as careful as I am I will over time grind behind the diamonds just a bit.

Using the handheld dresser has a learning curve. The ONEWAY dresser and the Geiger dresser you can use effectively out if the box.

With the hand held dresser. Don't follow the bumps in the wheel! You just get a smooth bumpy wheel. I start with the dresser at a slight angle to the face of the wheel (handle to the right) and work the right edge of the wheel moving the dresser lightly against the edge toward the middle of the wheel. A stroke or two and the right edge is running true. I gradually change the angle of the dresser toward straight across and work the wheel face from right to left. Each pass has to true a small part of the wheel and has the trued part to keep the dresser in line. This works from smooth to rough much like roughing wood to round where working smooth to rough makes the job much easier.

Unless the wheel is really bad 4-5 passes gets it trued across the face.
A new wheel or one that has been abused in a class may require more passes.

The Geiger dressed is terrific. You can't get a better surface on a wheel any other way.


Al
 
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odie said:
I highlighted some of your key points, John........

I will disagree with you on one point, though......with the hand held diamond dresser, you can get as flat as a any jig can do. It just takes more time effort and expense to do it with a jig. :p In the medical tool industry, we use hydraulic diamond dressers to shape grinding wheels, but this is only necessary for irregular shapes. When doing handwork on instruments, a hand held diamond dresser (when properly used.....hence your mentioning of a learning curve) does result in a perfectly flat surface. If the dressing tool is made perfectly flat, the wheel will be perfectly flat. It does definitely take a light touch, and it's easy to tell if it is, or isn't being held offset to the wheel surface being ground.

ko
Click to expand...

I think that John's main point was not about having a flat face ... that part is relatively easy to do. Its about making sure that the wheel is a perfect circle because it is all too easy by being ham fisted or starting off with a grinder that is bouncing all over the place to turn your grinding wheel into an egg shape or something that isn't a circle. When the wheel isn't a circle then the center of mass of the wheel is no longer at the center of rotation ... and that means there will be an off center weight shaking the grinder and making it more difficult to get a nice edge compared to sharpening on a smooth running grinder. That is also your goal, but just by a different approach.

BTW, if somebody wants to use one of the single point diamond dressers like the one that Oneway sells or the one that Don Geiger sells or the jig that John Lucas made to make life simpler, that's their business. If that's not how you dress your grinding wheels, that's your business. Share your way of doing things and point out the benefits and advantages that you see in your method without the deriding comments about what others do.
 
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Well I"ll go along with one statement made at the very beginning of this post. There's smooth, and then there's really smooth. One you use a Dresser like the Oneway or the Geiger you find out what really smooth is. There's just nothing like sharpening on a stone that's running really true. I think that's one of the reasons the CBN wheels are taking off. Right out of the box they are a dream to use. You can just lay the tool gently on the surface and it's so much easier to rotate and get a good grind. Same is true with a really true stone.
One thing missing in deriding the "herd" mentality is many many of us often arrive at the same solution through experimentation and not necessarily just agreeing with everyone else. I often go through many trials and tests before finding or sometimes settling on the solution that others have learned. When you look at my video above you see many years of playing with all sorts of grinders, wheels, wheel cleaning devices and wheel truing devices, before finally settling on the real Geiger sharpener.
 
odie said:
[Snip] If the dressing tool is made perfectly flat, the wheel will be perfectly flat. It does definitely take a light touch, and it's easy to tell if it is, or isn't being held offset to the wheel surface being ground.

ko
Click to expand...
I mentioned earlier I was seeking a diamond dresser that was between the $9.99 cheapie T-dresser and the $70++++ dressers. This assumes that not all T-dressers are created equal. I get a decent surface with the cheapies, but I don't think they last long or wear evenly. I don't dress obsessively (jeans and a shirt, LOL), only when the wheel is quite noticeably dirty or visible grooves. Odie: as to "flat dresser=flat wheel" -- well, yeah, but perhaps not "straight" (perpendicular to wheel side and grinding jig arm, etc.). Reed: Can I have a CBN wheel on one side (8" slow-speed grinder), and an aluminum oxide wheel on the other? I cannot afford 2 CBNs, but I do love them, might be able to spring for one. LMK!

After spending an hour with Dave Schweitzer at the grinder, I'm almost in love with sharpening -- he cleared up the conflicting information that's "out there" about the Wolverine, helped me see what parts of the metal needed to be reduced to get an effective grind, and diagnosed what was amiss with my approach to spindle gouges.
 
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Jamie Straw said:
I mentioned earlier I was seeking a diamond dresser that was between the $9.99 cheapie T-dresser and the $70++++ dressers. This assumes that not all T-dressers are created equal. I get a decent surface with the cheapies, but I don't think they last long or wear evenly. I don't dress obsessively (jeans and a shirt, LOL), only when the wheel is quite noticeably dirty or visible grooves. Odie: as to "flat dresser=flat wheel" -- well, yeah, but perhaps not "straight" (perpendicular to wheel side and grinding jig arm, etc.). Reed: Can I have a CBN wheel on one side (8" slow-speed grinder), and an aluminum oxide wheel on the other? I cannot afford 2 CBNs, but I do love them, might be able to spring for one. LMK!

After spending an hour with Dave Schweitzer at the grinder, I'm almost in love with sharpening -- he cleared up the conflicting information that's "out there" about the Wolverine, helped me see what parts of the metal needed to be reduced to get an effective grind, and diagnosed what was amiss with my approach to spindle gouges.
Click to expand...

Not Reed, but yes you can have CBN and Al oxide on same grinder. The grinder does not care what you have on it as long as it is balanced.
 
Jamie Straw said:
I mentioned earlier I was seeking a diamond dresser that was between the $9.99 cheapie T-dresser and the $70++++ dressers
Click to expand...

My favorite dresses is right in the middle. Coastwise.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Mer...GY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=sharp-gwd

I got mine about 20 years ago. The steel bar and handle are solid so is does not vibrate.

The block of diamond material holds up well and you can c grind behind the diamonds.


If you get good with it you can do almost as well as the Geiger dresser and it is more fun to use.

Al
 
Jamie Straw said:
I mentioned earlier I was seeking a diamond dresser that was between the $9.99 cheapie T-dresser and the $70++++ dressers. This assumes that not all T-dressers are created equal. I get a decent surface with the cheapies, but I don't think they last long or wear evenly. I don't dress obsessively (jeans and a shirt, LOL), only when the wheel is quite noticeably dirty or visible grooves. Odie: as to "flat dresser=flat wheel" -- well, yeah, but perhaps not "straight" (perpendicular to wheel side and grinding jig arm, etc.). Reed: Can I have a CBN wheel on one side (8" slow-speed grinder), and an aluminum oxide wheel on the other? I cannot afford 2 CBNs, but I do love them, might be able to spring for one. LMK!

After spending an hour with Dave Schweitzer at the grinder, I'm almost in love with sharpening -- he cleared up the conflicting information that's "out there" about the Wolverine, helped me see what parts of the metal needed to be reduced to get an effective grind, and diagnosed what was amiss with my approach to spindle gouges.
Click to expand...

As Gerald said, yes you can. It would be best if you can perfectly balance the Al-O wheel or else the vibration will cause you to lose some of the benefit of having a CBN wheel (smooth running). See Don Geiger's web site for instructions on balancing a grinder wheel. If you can't satisfactorily balance the Al-O wheel then take it off and leave that side of the grinder open.
 
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Bill Boehme said:
I think that John's main point was not about having a flat face ... that part is relatively easy to do. Its about making sure that the wheel is a perfect circle because it is all too easy by being ham fisted or starting off with a grinder that is bouncing all over the place to turn your grinding wheel into an egg shape or something that isn't a circle. When the wheel isn't a circle then the center of mass of the wheel is no longer at the center of rotation ... and that means there will be an off center weight shaking the grinder and making it more difficult to get a nice edge compared to sharpening on a smooth running grinder. That is also your goal, but just by a different approach.

BTW, if somebody wants to use one of the single point diamond dressers like the one that Oneway sells or the one that Don Geiger sells or the jig that John Lucas made to make life simpler, that's their business. If that's not how you dress your grinding wheels, that's your business. Share your way of doing things and point out the benefits and advantages that you see in your method without the deriding comments about what others do.
Click to expand...

Bill, if you are seeing my comments as deriding of other turners, then you are reading into it things not said or implied. I don't believe you are one who understands the influence of "herd think", and how that influences others onto paths that they would not have otherwise taken. Because I spent so many years completely secluded from outside input, there are many things I do which are not "mainstream". Because of that, I believe I'm one who sees things from an entirely different perspective than those who have been more so influenced. You are welcome to agree, or disagree with my premises, but that's where I stand.

Getting anything but a perfect circle is the result of not using light enough touch until the perfect circle is restored. This is the exact same principle as bringing a warped roughed and seasoned bowl back to round. We all see other turners trying to bring a bowl to round and the gouge jumping around. This isn't the best approach, and I feel most turners will likely agree. Taking off very tiny shavings from the outermost portions, then progressively more aggressive until it is round, all while maintaining a steady turning tool, is the best approach. While you are bringing a grind wheel back to perfect round, the hand held diamond dresser shouldn't be bouncing around, for the same reasons your gouge shouldn't be bouncing while bringing a roughed bowl to round. If it is, then too much pressure is being applied. As others have mentioned, there is a learning process involved to get the best results with a hand held diamond dresser. Once that hurdle is past, then the decision whether a hand held dresser is best for any individual turner is more easily made.

Jamie Straw said:
I mentioned earlier I was seeking a diamond dresser that was between the $9.99 cheapie T-dresser and the $70++++ dressers. This assumes that not all T-dressers are created equal. I get a decent surface with the cheapies, but I don't think they last long or wear evenly. I don't dress obsessively (jeans and a shirt, LOL), only when the wheel is quite noticeably dirty or visible grooves. Odie: as to "flat dresser=flat wheel" -- well, yeah, but perhaps not "straight" (perpendicular to wheel side and grinding jig arm, etc.). Reed: Can I have a CBN wheel on one side (8" slow-speed grinder), and an aluminum oxide wheel on the other? I cannot afford 2 CBNs, but I do love them, might be able to spring for one. LMK!

After spending an hour with Dave Schweitzer at the grinder, I'm almost in love with sharpening -- he cleared up the conflicting information that's "out there" about the Wolverine, helped me see what parts of the metal needed to be reduced to get an effective grind, and diagnosed what was amiss with my approach to spindle gouges.
Click to expand...

Howdy Jamie......If your goal is having the dressed surface exactly parallel with the axis of the grind wheel, then you are correct that the mechanical advantages of a fixed type dresser may be best for accomplishing this. The accuracy of the jig itself would be dependent on this.....some may be manufactured more accurately in this respect than others. With the hand held dresser, the result may be a couple degrees off perfection, but that isn't enough to make much difference for grinding gouges.....especially if one is using "freeform" grinding techniques. I am long past using freeform techniques, and have been using my wolverine system since around 1990, or so. If the dressed surface isn't exactly parallel to the axis of the wheel, then there may be some slight variation between the left and right wings of the grind. This, I don't see as a problem, as I use the left side for doing things that I don't for the right side, and vise versa. It's only a visual variation that doesn't have any adverse effect on how the gouge is used.

My grinder is an older model Delta, that has very pronounced flanges on the motor housing. I've found that for scrapers, as the wheel wears down, I am angling the dress to eliminate problems I've been having with clearance between scraper handles and the flange. Most people won't have this particular problem, but for this, I cannot use a mechanical dresser on the left side, even if I wanted to. (I have two Norton SG 80gt wheels mounted......scrapers done on the left, gouges and skews are done on the right, where a more parallel dress is best.)

ko

Oh.....btw......this is the hand held dressing tool I've been using: https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/...t-Lifetime-Diamond-Wheel-Dresser?term=diamond dressing tool
 

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I would say that perhaps it is best to have 2 CBN wheels on your grinder. Main reason is that BOTH are spin and bubble balanced, where the standard grinding wheels are not. Most of the time, this is only a minor problem if it is a problem at all. Most wheels that come with the grinders are junk. The ones that came with my new 1 hp Rikon grinder I wouldn't give to some one I don't like. About 1/8 inch run out as in +/- 1/16 inch, terrible.

One other source for a wheel dresser is old concrete cutting saw blades. The edges are diamond, and you may be able to find them if you know of some one who does concrete cutting. Dressing the standard wheels with a diamond dresser free hand, on a platform is like shear scraping, where you nibble off bits till it is round. I true up both the face and the sides. You may want to spin the wheel around a bit, and mark the location on both wheel and motor shaft so you can put it back in the same place.

robo hippy
 
I have toyed with the idea of replacing the single point diamond on my Wolverine dresser with one similar to this style. Anyone have any negatives to the concept?
 

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odie said:
Taking off very tiny shavings from the outermost portions, then progressively more aggressive until it is round, all while maintaining a steady turning tool, is the best approach. While
Click to expand...

Or you can use the Liam O'neil approach, turn it round with one pass from foot to rim, then shear scrape, and sand.
Most amazing turner I have seen!

Anyone fortunate enough to get to a symposium, sees the herd in action, and knows they all do things differently.

Al
 
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Jamie Straw said:
Thanks for the link, Odie, that might be my best bet for now. (or February, since they're sold out, LOL).
Click to expand...

Good morning all.....

Jamie, I see there is another diamond dresser that is a bit cheaper. I have no experience with it, but it's a little bit less expensive, and available now. Might be worth your consideration, if you want one now. The one I originally linked to, I can recommend, and it may be available from other sources.....don't know.....check around.

https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/94/4367/Apprentice-Diamond-Wheel-Dresser

Owen Lowe said:
I have toyed with the idea of replacing the single point diamond on my Wolverine dresser with one similar to this style. Anyone have any negatives to the concept?
Click to expand...

Might be worth a try, Owen.......

It does appear that it would have to be installed exactly keyed to the pivotal axis of the jig, itself......otherwise the flat surface of the diamond impregnated matrix would not make complete contact over the entire surface. Get that right, and I suspect it would work fine. I have plenty of experience using a single point diamond, hydraulically controlled dresser, and the smoothness of the grinding wheel surface is completely dependent on the speed of the diamond over that dressed surface. The slower the diamond passes, the smoother the results will be.

hockenbery said:
Or you can use the Liam O'neil approach, turn it round with one pass from foot to rim, then shear scrape, and sand.
Most amazing turner I have seen!

Anyone fortunate enough to get to a symposium, sees the herd in action, and knows they all do things differently.

Al
Click to expand...

Al.....Although I haven't been to one of the symposiums (yet.....never say never!), I have seen many videos of the demonstrations there, and on commercial videos, and what is on YouTube. For the most part, these demos are always done with wood especially chosen for the purpose. In real life, we can't always choose wood that is best for a demonstration......usually unseasoned wet, easy turning, and plain grained. I am well aware that it's possible to true a block of wood to round in a single pass, if everything is in favor of that......it's very impressive, but not the same as what some turners face in our own shops.....dry, warped, hard, difficult to turn seasoned roughed bowls.

I'd love to be able to walk into one of those demos, and pick the wood they will work with! :p

ko
 
odie said:
...... Although I haven't been to one of the symposiums (yet.....never say never!), I have seen many videos of the demonstrations there, and on commercial videos, and what is on YouTube. For the most part, these demos are always done with wood especially chosen for the purpose. In real life, we can't always choose wood that is best for a demonstration......usually unseasoned wet, easy turning, and plain grained. I am well aware that it's possible to true a block of wood to round in a single pass, if everything is in favor of that......it's very impressive, but not the same as what some turners face in our own shops.....dry, warped, hard, difficult to turn seasoned roughed bowls.

I'd love to be able to walk into one of those demos, and pick the wood they will work with! :p ...
Click to expand...

Like you, I haven't been to a national symposium ... yet, but I would like to some day. I'm sure that it would be a fun experience. I don't know so I won't guess how the wood is chosen. At the SWAT symposium some demonstrators request the particular wood species they need to demonstrate a particular technique-- and that's what most demonstrations are about-- a particular technique.

There are many other reasons for selecting certain wood species such as the time constraint as well as the likelihood of producing an allergic reaction ... so you generally won't find cedar being used even though it is an easy wood to turn. There are also restrictions on transporting some species of wood because of the possibility of spreading certain plant diseases. This restriction even prohibits certain species from being transported outside some counties in Texas to prevent the spread of some things like Phytophthora root rot, oak wilt disease, and emerald ash borers.

Here are some examples of why the wood used is not just a random selection:

  • Jimmy Clewes demonstrates his technique for dyeing -- and the best wood for this is highly figured maple. It just won't work on most other woods including plain maple.
  • Johannes Michelsen demonstrates turning hats and by necessity the wood needs to be wet and very large and without defects. His hats are turned to a thickness of about 1/16 inch and the wood must be green because he puts it in a fixture after turning it to get it to conform to the shape of the wearers head as well as curling the brim. I have one of his hats that he made for me in exchange for using my lathe at SWAT four years ago and it fits perfectly.
  • Some other turners demonstrate a particular carving technique and carving is always easier to do on certain species and green wood is often preferred for carving. You won't find carvers carving rosewood or other tropical woods very often.
  • If the demonstration is about hand thread chasing, then a species of wood needs to be one that will work well because most domestic hardwoods aren't satisfactory for this.
  • Mesquite is (not surprisingly) a popular wood to turn in Texas so many of the demonstrations are about using mesquite in various ways. Mesquite does present some challenges because it often has built in defects such as ring shake and bark inclusions... and guaranteed to have borers. But, it is a spectacularly beautiful wood that is very stable and rock hard when dry.
  • A demonstration on ornamental lathe turning usually means that the preferred wood is a hard tropical species like cocobolo or ebony.


SWAT is a 100% volunteer effort so while every effort is made to accommodate the demonstrator special requests, they get what is provided.


About the diamond dressing tools, do you have an edge guide or miter slot that keeps the dresser distance fixed while moving it from side to side? While vibration may not be a problem with your grinder (I have the same grinder and it is a very heavy and well balanced tool), some of the low cost grinders with low cost white wheels vibrate so much that I don't think it would be possible to hold a dresser steady on the tool rest. The problem would be much worse if the grinder is a high speed type. If you were trying to hand hold the dressing tool steady on one of those grinders, I think that it would probably not work well enough because you wouldn't know whether you were truing an out of round wheel or just clipping the wheel because the whole machine is shaking. The rotation axis and the dresser both need to have a common hard mechanical connection to one another.

My preference is to follow the procedure that Don Geiger gives on his web site. It makes a lot of sense and takes care of the side to side wobble and leaves just the off center hole as the only issue that needs to be fixed. BTW, with this grinder (Delta 23-725) and the Norton 3X wheels everything was so smooth from the start that I can get by hand holding one of the razor looking diamond dressers to periodically clean the wheel.
 
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all of the symposium feature excellent demonstrations.
Rocky Mountain is the closest to Kelly and travel distance is an issue for all of us.

The AAW symposium provides wood for international turners.
The Florida Symposium provides wood for demonstrators coming from out of state.
Each regional has different rules.

You can see most of the major US and Canadian demonstrators at regional symposiums
Best chance for seeing international turners is the AAW or Utah.

A couple of big differences with the AAW is there are many more demonstrators and there are more esoteric demonstrations and panel discussion you are unlikely to see at a regional symposium. AAW trade show is much bigger, the instant gallery is much bigger,
The AAW usually has demos or panels on how to teach, how to demo, how to sell your work, ornamental turning, design, expression, developing signature work, alternative materials, segmented turning, architectural turning, furniture turning, ......
Many of these the regionals may never do and others they might do every few years.
Al
 
Yea about meeting people you talk to but haven't been able to shake hands with. I get to meet John this year down in Atlanta....

Jamie, next Symposium in our area is the Oregon Woodturning Symposium in 2017. Not as big, but still a lot of info to take in...

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Yea about meeting people you talk to but haven't been able to shake hands with. I get to meet John this year down in Atlanta....

Jamie, next Symposium in our area is the Oregon Woodturning Symposium in 2017. Not as big, but still a lot of info to take in...

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Cool, I will definitely be there! Another woodworking group I got to know online has a pig roast every other year in Seattle, always fun to catch up.
 
(Not sure why this particular subject needed two separate threads to address the evolution of discussion.)

I suppose we could come up with a variety of reasons why we don't, or seldom (?) see demos using the most difficult of woods to true-up and finish turn......but, I believe the reasons go beyond simple explanations, such as time constraints, and/or highlighting any individual's techniques.....in seclusion of the obvious reasoning. As I said, and if I could choose the wood for a demonstration, I'd choose a bone dry, very hard and/or dense, very hard to turn significantly warped seasoned roughed bowl, that might have additional obstacles, such as irregular final shapes, voids, natural flaws, difficult/swirly grain, such as quilting, and etc. This is where the difficulty is critical and crucial, minimal sanding is at the highest premium, and is where the skill of the turner will shine.....or not. These are the kinds of woods all of us would like to tackle and be successful with, because if we get flawless results here, we will have a bowl that will be a stand out.

ko
 
Pig roast??!! Drool. I may have to get friendly with them...

Odie, it sounds like you and Mountain Mahogany would get along well. I do have some if you are interested....

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Pig roast??!! Drool. I may have to get friendly with them...

Odie, it sounds like you and Mountain Mahogany would get along well. I do have some if you are interested....

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Robo.......

I don't think I've ever tried any Mountain Mahogany. I assume you feel it's difficult to turn?

Took a moment to check "the wood database" :

Workability: Tends to be difficult to work on account of it’s density and cutting resistance. Turns well.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer, friend......but, I'm up to my ears in stacks of wood waiting for me!:D

ko
 
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