Wood drying vessel

[Rachel Aberle]

I had some really wet beech wood I turned into vessels, not much hollowed out inside, just enough for a few dried flowers. After a few weeks one side inevitably develops a large crack down the side.

Before this I’ve only turned bowls and have a system for limiting cracks.

Question is: is it the beech? Or how much moisture it was holding? Or that the walls were significantly thicker than a bowl? Looking for some feedback to turning these in the future.

Attached not the best image due to low light but you can see the crack that developed a few weeks after turning.

 

[Odie]

Rachel.....Is this an end-grain turning?

If so, that could be your answer...

-----odie-----

 

[Kevin Jenness]

You're drying a thick-walled short-grained piece of green beech, a species with high shrinkage. If the end grain is vertical that's more likely to result in the crack shown, but you're almost guaranteed to get checking or splits. You will have better luck hollowing out the shape with even walls less than 1/4".

That is one of the more difficult shapes to hollow with a small hole and high, flat shoulder. You might get away with hollowing what you can reach, drying slowly after sealing the end grain and returning when dry.

 

[robo hippy]

I got some pieces of a beech tree some years back, and just about all the bowls I made from it cracked. I heard after that this is common for beech. It most likely needs 'special' treatment.

robo hippy

 

[Rachel Aberle]

Rachel.....Is this an end-grain turning?

If so, that could be your answer...

-----odie-----

Yes it is! Thank you

 

[Rachel Aberle]

You're drying a thick-walled short-grained piece of green beech, a species with high shrinkage. If the end grain is vertical that's more likely to result in the crack shown, but you're almost guaranteed to get checking or splits. You will have better luck hollowing out the shape with even walls less than 1/4".

That is one of the more difficult shapes to hollow with a small hole and high, flat shoulder. You might get away with hollowing what you can reach, drying slowly after sealing the end grain and returning when dry.

Thank you, yes definitely end grain piece and great points. Learned something new.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

I got some pieces of a beech tree some years back, and just about all the bowls I made from it cracked. I heard after that this is common for beech. It most likely needs 'special' treatment.

robo hippy

Great to know. This stuff turned like butter so easy…but drying not great and as noted, trying out creating something from end grain, thicker design all didn’t help.

 

[hockenbery]

Question is: is it the beech? Or how much moisture it was holding? Or that the walls were significantly thicker than a bowl? Looking for some feedback to turning these in the future.

The most successful drying follows the guidelines I use in a working with greenwood demo

The sharp rim edge reduces the chances of successful drying. To use that sharp edge you increase the chance of crack free drying by turning a thin even wall and slowing the drying by using paper bags

This is a beech piece about 12” diameter it has an even wall and curves that let the wood move
It was just air dried


If you don’t have hollowing tools you can turn a form like yours in two parts and glue them together
You can adapt the seen jar demo to your form. I would try one face grain turned first. The endgrain should work fine too but the parts will be weaker. You can dry the two part or finish turn them green an glue together with an epoxy that will flex a little the joined parts will move together if the two pieces are joined in the same orientation they were before they were separated.

Turning a seed jar - split hollow form

I turned one of these for after dinner entertainment at SWAT-2017 along with Trent Bosch. Trent turned a traditional hollow form in an informal race and finished first. A fun time. Since then I have done several of these in club demos and also did a club workshop where students turned them...

www.aawforum.org

 

[Rachel Aberle]

The most successful drying follows the guidelines I use in a working with greenwood demoView attachment 45031

The sharp rim edge reduces the chances of successful drying. To use that sharp edge you increase the chance of crack free drying by turning a thin even wall and slowing the drying by using paper bags

This is a beech piece about 12” diameter it has an even wall and curves that let the wood move
It was just air dried View attachment 45032


If you don’t have hollowing tools you can turn a form like yours in two parts and glue them together
You can adapt the seen jar demo to your form. I would try one face grain turned first. The endgrain should work fine too but the parts will be weaker. You can dry the two part or finish turn them green an glue together with an epoxy that will flex a little the joined parts will move together if the two pieces are joined in the same orientation they were before they were separated.

Turning a seed jar - split hollow form

I turned one of these for after dinner entertainment at SWAT-2017 along with Trent Bosch. Trent turned a traditional hollow form in an informal race and finished first. A fun time. Since then I have done several of these in club demos and also did a club workshop where students turned them...

www.aawforum.org

Thank you this is good advice and appreciate the link, will check it out.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Rachel this will happen with most woods, if it is endgrain like that, but especially with a difficult wood like American Beech.

If it was spalted you might have better results as the wood has lost the strengths and will just shrink less, even European Beech that is not as volatile as the American Beech is usually steamed, for prevention of this and for an even light color.

I have had some success with turning American Beech, but still lost one, even when turned real thin and dried slowly in a brown paper bag, as you can see here in these pictures, so just turning thin is not preventing it from splitting, but shapes that let the wood move work better plus thinner wall, or spalted Beech, that works also, two pictures of a spalted Beech bud vase with no split in it.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

Rachel this will happen with most woods, if it is endgrain like that, but especially with a difficult wood like American Beech.

If it was spalted you might have better results as the wood has lost the strengths and will just shrink less, even European Beech that is not as volatile as the American Beech is usually steamed, for prevention of this and for an even light color.

I have had some success with turning American Beech, but still lost one, even when turned real thin and dried slowly in a brown paper bag, as you can see here in these pictures, so just turning thin is not preventing it from splitting, but shapes that let the wood move work better plus thinner wall, or spalted Beech, that works also, two pictures of a spalted Beech bud vase with no split in it.
View attachment 45033 View attachment 45034 View attachment 45035 View attachment 45036

View attachment 45037 View attachment 45038 View attachment 45039 View attachment 45040

Very nice turns! This will definitely elicit more experimentation with differing shapes and how to reduce the cracking.

 

[Richard Coers]

This is a wood drying 101 situation. A solid block of end grain wood will crack every single time. Does not look like Beech. Beech has predominant radial medullary rays. The picture is blurry, but I sure don't see any. Beech is also a bit more amber than white. You can turn a vessel like that from the bottom and get a thin wall. Then you will have a much better success rate. Then size and put a plug in that opening in the bottom.

 

[Rachel Aberle]

This is a wood drying 101 situation. A solid block of end grain wood will crack every single time. Does not look like Beech. Beech has predominant radial medullary rays. The picture is blurry, but I sure don't see any. Beech is also a bit more amber than white. You can turn a vessel like that from the bottom and get a thin wall. Then you will have a much better success rate. Then size and put a plug in that opening in the bottom.

Trying to envision, you mean hollow on both ends?

 

[Brian Horais]

I had some really wet beech wood I turned into vessels, not much hollowed out inside, just enough for a few dried flowers. After a few weeks one side inevitably develops a large crack down the side.

Before this I’ve only turned bowls and have a system for limiting cracks.

Question is: is it the beech? Or how much moisture it was holding? Or that the walls were significantly thicker than a bowl? Looking for some feedback to turning these in the future.

Attached not the best image due to low light but you can see the crack that developed a few weeks after turning.

Rachel,

You may be interested in this article from 'The Highland Woodturner' on making a 'Quick, Cheap Drying Box' (by Rick Morris)
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodturning/making-a-wood-drying-box.html
I have used this drying box a number of times to successfully dry chunks of wet poplar burl after I rough turned them. It takes about 6 to 7 days for the moisture and/or weight to go down and level out. After that I have completed the rough turned burl chunks with great success. Here's an image of one of the bowls I made. Enjoy!

 

[Rachel Aberle]

Rachel,

You may be interested in this article from 'The Highland Woodturner' on making a 'Quick, Cheap Drying Box' (by Rick Morris)
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/woodturning/making-a-wood-drying-box.html
I have used this drying box a number of times to successfully dry chunks of wet poplar burl after I rough turned them. It takes about 6 to 7 days for the moisture and/or weight to go down and level out. After that I have completed the rough turned burl chunks with great success. Here's an image of one of the bowls I made. Enjoy!

Thank you. Looks like an interesting option.

Very cool bowl by the way!

 

[Richard Coers]

Trying to envision, you mean hollow on both ends?

Nope, just hollow from the bottom through a much larger hole. Faster and easier. Put a tenon on the plug you put in the hole in the bottom and then finish turn the top and drill a tiny entrance hole.

 

[hockenbery]

Split hollow turnings don’t all need a hole.
This is the design of hollow Christmas ornament I did for our club donation
It was about 3” diameter camphor spirit stained red.

I hollowed this through the facegrain

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Nope, just hollow from the bottom through a much larger hole. Faster and easier. Put a tenon on the plug you put in the hole in the bottom and then finish turn the top and drill a tiny entrance hole.

I'm still confused.

 

[hockenbery]

I'm still confused.

If you haven’t seen it done a few times it can be a mystery
It’s like this

The plug can be a pre-turned foot instead of a peice that needs reverse chucking like I drew.

 

[Al Chavez]

If you haven’t seen it done a few times it can be a mystery
It’s like this View attachment 45077

The plug can be a pre-turned foot instead of a peice that needs reverse chucking like I drew.

I am chiming in here with a question.

Would the plug need to be the same wood as the vessel? Then glued up with the same grain orientation to allow the piece to move/shrink and have the same stresses as well as hide the glue up line? Otherwise the piece shrinking around a plug that is different wood and grain etc would be another cause of cracks right? Now I'm curious.

 

[hockenbery]

I am chiming in here with a question.

Would the plug need to be the same wood as the vessel? Then glued up with the same grain orientation to allow the piece to move/shrink and have the same stresses as well as hide the glue up line? Otherwise the piece shrinking around a plug that is different wood and grain etc would be another cause of cracks right? Now I'm curious.

Same wood and from the same piece can make the plug hard to spot.

I have seen other woods used and the plug is usually 1-2” diameter so wood movement isn’t usually an issue as long as grain orientation are the same. Non wood like stone or Corian can be used in those diameters.

for all the reasons you state the same wood is a good choice.

 

[Richard Coers]

This is a vessel I hollowed from the bottom.
1) When between centers and at the very early stage of rounding it, I parted 1" off the bottom to make a plug latter.
2) Put a 2" diameter tenon on what would be the top
3) Grab that tenon and put the bottom against a live center
4) Form the vessel including a short section between the vessel and the top to guide hollowing
5) Back off the live center and bore a hole
6) Hollow out the vessel while keeping in mind the shape you want at the end. Use a spindle steady to prevent whipping of the vessel when turning.
7) Remove the vessel. or go to your second lathe to size the plug with a tenon on it
8) Glue in the plug
9) When dry remount the vessel on the bottom and turn the top to shape. Leave just a stub at the top so the live center stays in place. I also turn off some of the plug to clean up the bottom and add a couple score marks. One right on top of the seam and a second to show I intentionally wanted a slight embellishment.
10) Remove the vessel, saw off the top stub. I used a drill press to bore a small hole down thru the neck
11) Turn down a piece of dowel to snugly fit the hole in the neck, This will be used to drive the vessel to do a final cleanup on the base
12) Turn close to get a tiny tapered plug with the tailstock in it. Add a couple more rings if you want to, then remove it from the lathe and carve off the nub.
13) Do your sanding whenever you are comfortable with it.

If you look closely, you will see that I glued in the plug with a sight twist to it. The growth rings don't quite line up. But I still have to explain how I did this to most all turners. They don't see that slight offset since the grain and color are a dead match!

This is a piece of bark inclusion soft maple. 3 1/8" at the major diameter, 2 1/4" at the base. Neck is 1/2" at the minor diameter, and 6 1/4" overall height. Weighs 3oz. If I missed something, ask away.

 

[Dave Landers]

I've down a few mosly like Richard describes. I turn a tenon on the plug before parting it off. And I usually drill out the neck opening from the bottom while I'm hollowing (assuming I have a long enough drill bit). This gets the hole aligned and helps keep me from spending money on a drill press. Use a cone center in that hole to center the piece when remounting. Can also glue in the plug on the lathe (bottom tenon in a chuck, top in the cone center) to ensure the plug is aligned for turning the neck.