Wood Stabilization

[jimbob91577]

I have read the article here http://www.turningwood.com/LDD.htm and http://www.ronkent.com/RKgallery.html - and am wondering if anyone else has tried this method of stabilizing freshly sawn logs.

I acquired 2 large california olive and russian olive trees yesterday and am willing to try this method to protect them from checking but only if it doesn't destroy them with soap.

Any help or suggestions on the matter would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
J

 

[Brodie Brickey]

Stabilization

If you just got the logs the best bet is to leave the bark on and seal the cut ends of the wood to reduce or eliminate checking. You want the logs to stay as long as possible until you are ready to actually turn some of the wood. Then slice off as much as you need (the ends may check, just trim off until you get to clear wood) and turn. Re-seal the rest of the log's freshly cut end.

The soap system seems to work for a lot of people, but it is only good once you've rough turned it. Other people boil the rough turned bowl for 1 hr minimum at a rolling boil with the wood completely submerged. The drying process is then sped up by about a month. The rough turned bowl needs to be turned to a consistent thickness of about 1" thick for both systems to work. As your bowl is drying it will warp from a little to a lot depending on the wood. Because you have consistent thickness, the wood has an easier time adjusting to the stresses.

 

[alamocdc]

It certainly looks cheap enough for me to try with some of my spalted Maple and Walnut. Thanks for the info! I'd give it a try.

 

[jimbob91577]

...the best bet is to leave the bark on and seal the cut ends of the wood to reduce or eliminate checking...

I did this with the some of the Russian Olive (~14" dia logs, used candle wax) and the ends still checked significantly both before cutting and after. Granted Russian olive is a lot less dense than the Californian Olive...Also, my original post was ambiguous, I acquired the Californian Olive yesterday and the Russian olive about 2 weeks ago...

Is there anything/anyone that says not to soak entire blanks (not rough turned) in a soapy solution? Is it possible to cut 2-3" sqares and apply this solution to them (for candlesticks, ornaments, tool handles etc...) and have them turn out okay?

It doesn't seem like many people, other than the authors of the two articles listed in my original post, have tried this method...

 

[Brodie Brickey]

Every time I've heard this done, it was after rough turning. If you seal the ends with Green Wood sealer or an oil based paint, it will slow the drying process down. One of the things that people forget to mention, and I'm guilty of it too, is that the log should be off the ground a little bit, and shaded from the sun. You're essentially slow air drying an entire log without cutting it up. Because it will take x years to dry the log, until then you have some "green" wood to work with if you cut off a blank's worth.

Sealing the ends just slows the drying process of the ends so that it dries only as fast as the sides of the log. You will always loose some wood on the ends. There really isn't a way to fix that, so you trim off the end when you're ready to cut a blank for a clean unsplit face and then cut your blank.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Been There Tried That

While I understand that Mr. Kent swears by his liquid detergent, I disagree with the method for several reasons.

I like many other impatient new turners seized on this process to prevent cracking and speed drying. I went out and bought 7 gallons of Costco LDD, mixed according to directions, and proceeded to soak bowls in the fragrent soup. I figured if it didn't work, I'd never have to buy hand soap again.

Results:

a) 1/3 of Bowls still cracked. I decided that this may have been more my fault in not being more picky over the wood. As I got better at spotting defects, cracked bowls were reduced a great deal, with no soap involved.

b) In my opinion, the soap ruined the color and figure in cherry and sugar maple. Finished with either oil of solvent films, they all looked dull and "muddy" compared to other wood from the same logs that was turned without being soaked. Some still smell like the LDD, years later.

c) I got a first class lesson in organic chemistry. Immersing wet/green wood in the detergent caused the "extractives" and solute sugars to migrate into the solution. There, being as how they were proteins, they were rather quick to form up in long-chain molecules in the soup. The more bowls I soaked, the thicker and thicker the mass became until what I had left was 15 gallons of orange-scented slime like something out of a 50's monster flick.

I took the whole thing to the annual county haz-mat day where homeowners can take their used thinner, oil and latex paints, florescent tubes, and such to have them disposed of properly. The guy opened my plastic garbage can, looked at the semi-gelatinous mass glistening in the sunlight, and made a beeline for his supervisor. "Boss" comes over, looks, and, after I explain just exactly what this is and why it won't eat Philadelphia if it gets loose, just walked away laughing after giving the helper instructions in what to do with my Blob. Worker brought back the can, at least, and I had the best-smelling garbage can on the whole block.

Save your money.

m

 

[MichaelMouse]

Ron is of the panacea school of LDD. Others mention it as a way of preventing surface checks in the short term while pausing during turning of wet wood, and as a sanding lubricant. One presumes, since you must use dish detergent rather than the anionic surfactant itself, according to all proponents, that the humectant that preserved Madge's hands and botanical specimens is the ingredient of record. That's glycerine, or glycerol normally.

Same principles as the ethyl alcohol boys here. Alcohols and water mix in any proportion, so the water in the wood won't reject it like oils. Here the glycerine has a higher melting point than the water, so it evaporates slower, rather than faster than the water, keeping the surface sort of expanded - they call it "bulking" in the wood soaking business. Won't stop cracks, but it should help with sanding checks from overzealous types. Not to mention keeping the dust down.

Ultimate in this whole alcohol/turning thing is PEG in high polymer weights like the PEG 1000. Dissolves in water, but it's more or less solid at room temps, so it never really evaporates. Bear to get a finish to stick, and so hygroscopic it actually feels wet in humid weather. Nice for turned mallets, though.

 

[Steve Worcester]

Almost all the methods discussed are for preturned (roughed) objects not for wood still in log forms.


I also have posted items there (turningwood.com) on boiling and I would suggest researching kilns and alcohol drying also.

They are all part of the bag of tricks and all have reported their individual success. I think that time of year and climate play a huge roll in these, as it is about %30 humidity here now, with about %60 in the summer. Climatic conditions will play a big role in the drying process.

 

[n7bsn]

I did this with the some of the Russian Olive (~14" dia logs, used candle wax) and the ends still checked significantly both before cutting and after....

My best guess is the wood had nothing to do with your failure, rather it was that candle wax is to stiff and brittle. A thick body latex paint (several coats) would work better.

It doesn't seem like many people, other than the authors of the two articles listed in my original post, have tried this method...

Actually, many have tried, few have gotten results anything like the proponents claim

 

[jimbob91577]

Steve:
Thanks for your reply - it was on your site that I first began reading about the LDD treatment. Where I live in So. Oregon it has more humid this fall than normal, but is typically pretty dry all year long - I don't know the humidity percentages and I keep my small supply of wood in my garage along with everything else. The major issue I have with humidity is our laundry dryer, but have no where else to put either my shop or my laundry room except in the Garage - and at this time of the year it is pretty cold, it has been in the mid-teens in the mornings.

n7bsn:
I will try the Latex Paint, it would seem to have more elastic properties than the wax, thus reduced brittleness. I have a local hardwood dealer where I live who recomended the Candle Wax but he also recomended Shellac.

--

I just hate to see something as pretty as olive go to waste...plus I am obsessed with wasting as little wood as possible...

Thanks for your input...

 

[MichaelMouse]

Humidity gages are too cheap to have to guess. It's easy to beat the climate because you can gain and maintain high humidity when you confine the piece within a barrier of newsprint, a bag, a box, a small closet where you don't care about mildew under the paint or anywhere that humidity is high naturally. Don't seek magic, there isn't any. Evaporation is what you want to control.

Best research is done here. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ Wood handbook will tell you how wood dries.

 

[alamocdc]

FWIW, I just remembered something I read by Russ Fairfield. He stabilizes wood using a 1:1 ratio of white glue (like Elmer's) and water. I haven't tried it yet, but he swears by it.