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X Y cutter for wood lathe

R

robo hippy

Joined
Aug 14, 2007
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Eugene, OR
Well, considering that I ALWAYS have to 'experiment' I am thinking that with making the threaded boxes, having an X Y jig that I can put a cutter on would save me a lot of time when making the threaded boxes. I want my blanks to have dead flat top/lid and base for gluing onto waste blocks. I also want to be able to cut the sides of the recess and tenon to dead parallel before cutting the threads. I am figuring that it may even be possible to cut the recess and tenon threads spot on the first time by measuring the offset. Difference should be in the 0.06 range, inches that is. Any ideas? I have a bunch of possibilities for cutting material from tantung to M42 HSS. Kind of hoping there is some thing out there that would go on a 12 inch lathe. Hope I don't need a third mini lathe to do this with.... Who knows, I may find another use for a third mini lathe if I get one....

robo hippy
 
This is commonly done on engineering lathes when converting them for ornamental turning. I looked for some documentation on that but couldn’t find them easily.

The alternative is to use a low end metal lathe for this. That’s what I do.
 
robo hippy said:
Well, considering that I ALWAYS have to 'experiment' I am thinking that with making the threaded boxes, having an X Y jig that I can put a cutter on would save me a lot of time when making the threaded boxes. I want my blanks to have dead flat top/lid and base for gluing onto waste blocks. I also want to be able to cut the sides of the recess and tenon to dead parallel before cutting the threads. I am figuring that it may even be possible to cut the recess and tenon threads spot on the first time by measuring the offset. Difference should be in the 0.06 range, inches that is. Any ideas? I have a bunch of possibilities for cutting material from tantung to M42 HSS. Kind of hoping there is some thing out there that would go on a 12 inch lathe. Hope I don't need a third mini lathe to do this with.... Who knows, I may find another use for a third mini lathe if I get one....

robo hippy
Click to expand...

Are you thinking of something that resembles hand-chasing threads where the wooden box is spinning while the thread-chasing tool is traveling parallel to the spin axis? The cutter travel would need to be synched to the spindle rotation. I like the simple mechanical approach that Best Wood Tools uses. The 60° V cutter spins in the spindle. There is no need to synch the cutter travel to the spindle rotation.
 
@Bill Boehme @Jeffrey Knichel
That s an excellent recommendation. My friend, Jeffrey Knichel, forum member and club president made such a jig but was unable to post this picture because he was unauthorized to this restricted forum. (he never posted before). So on his behalf, I posted a picture of his inexpensive jig below: It produces 10tpi threads following the threaded rod profile. It uses a Oneway 3/4 thread live center adapter to your chuck size. The cutter is a 60-degree double-bevel milling cutter held by a Beale chuck. It looks like you can make this for about $125.threadingjig2.jpg

Jeff said with this type of jig he only has to eyeball the trueness of the walls and sides. The threads are cut true via the jig. Their depth needs to be true but their outer edge could be somewhat forgiving. So what he is saying is Metal lathe-like accuracy for the sake of thread cutting is not really needed for woodworking thread functionality.
For further information on the Jig, I guess you can IM Jeff or Bill can give him permission, if possible, to post here.

It would be nice if someone would manufacture a metal lathe-like carriage that would clamp into our ways so that we could get some additional cutting accuracy on our wood lathes. A while ago I bought a large ENCO xy table but never got around to customizing it to my 1W 2436.

For hole boring accuracy for boxes(to the thousandths of an inch), I use a boring head with a 3mt attached to my oneway tailstock. Boring heads are inexpensively available in different sizes and adapters. Amazon/EBAY is one place to look or craft supplies and sells them in the ring-making section of their catalog.
 
I am not wanting to cut threads with it, since I already have Klein and Baxter jigs. I am wanting to cut the bases dead flat, and the recess and tenon sides dead parallel, and maybe as a bonus, I can get that 0.06 off set without having to measure by hand. Not sure if the Baxter or Klein jigs could be modified or altered so they could do the cuts or not.

robo hippy
 
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Hmm, might have to investigate the rose engine. Never looked into them. I tend to stay away from embellishments. I prefer plain and simple. I am sure there is a simple solution of some sort.

Strange to me, is that most of the box threading videos I see on You Tube, they are turning boxes 2 to 3 inch diameter. To me, that means that some time in the future, the wood will move to the point where you will not be able to get the lid off.

The search continues. Oh, I did see some one who made an X/Y threading jig from that Harbor Freight set up. Not sure I want anything from Harbor Freight in my shop.

robo hippy
 
This is the type slide assembly Robo needs. It's an accessory to a pattern maker's lathe. It can mount to the bed of most any wood lathe.

The top slide swivels at whatever angle you want, good for cutting tapers, etc. It can also cut domes like a ball cutting jig by swiveling top slide. A threading jig could mounted on top in place of the tool post.

With a high positive diamond carbide insert it'll take a bit of getting used to for traditional turners. The turned areas will be like those of ornamental or CNC turnings, no sanding or very little needed. Cut through knots and difficult wood, with and against the grain with no tear outs.

If anybody wants it I'll sell it for a hundred bucks. It's in Seattle for pickup or I'll ship via UPS with packaging and shipping done by the UPS store at buyer expense. It's a high quality item made for production work. Weighs 30 to 40 pounds, dimension from top to bottom in picture is 17". In spite of the patina it's in very good condition, the dovetail ways are clean and the screws have almost zero backlash.

XY slide.JPG
 
Dennis Weiner said:
It would be nice if someone would manufacture a metal lathe-like carriage that would clamp into our ways so that we could get some additional cutting accuracy on our wood lathes. A while ago I bought a large ENCO xy table but never got around to customizing it to my 1W 2436.
Click to expand...
Delta manufactured a cross slide back in the 1960's and about 20 years ago I found one in a used tool store . This photo shows the cross slide with a router mounted at 45 degrees to make the zigzag cut as shown ( The machinist square is just a photo prop to prove the accuracy of the cut). The spin index fixture is needed to accurately space the cuts, the index fixture is settable to any number of cuts that result in even numbered degrees as in 12 = 30 degrees per index.
DSC00757.JPG
Dennis Weiner said:
For hole boring accuracy for boxes(to the thousandths of an inch), I use a boring head with a 3mt attached to my oneway tailstock. Boring heads are inexpensively available in different sizes and adapters. Amazon/EBAY is one place to look or craft supplies and sells them in the ring-making section of their catalog.
Click to expand...
I have had a boring head for about 25 years that I made a custom mount that slides over the quil and attaches with 2 set screws into the key way.
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
This is the type slide assembly Robo needs. It's an accessory to a pattern maker's lathe. It can mount to the bed of most any wood lathe.

The top slide swivels at whatever angle you want, good for cutting tapers, etc. It can also cut domes like a ball cutting jig by swiveling top slide. A threading jig could mounted on top in place of the tool post.

With a high positive diamond carbide insert it'll take a bit of getting used to for traditional turners. The turned areas will be like those of ornamental or CNC turnings, no sanding or very little needed. Cut through knots and difficult wood, with and against the grain with no tear outs.

If anybody wants it I'll sell it for a hundred bucks. It's in Seattle for pickup or I'll ship via UPS with packaging and shipping done by the UPS store at buyer expense. It's a high quality item made for production work. Weighs 30 to 40 pounds, dimension from top to bottom in picture is 17". In spite of the patina it's in very good condition, the dovetail ways are clean and the screws have almost zero backlash.

View attachment 49118
Click to expand...
Ok sold if we can determine if mounted with a tool post on top of my enco xy table will be centered properly. I Have a oneway 12" from bed to center. More interested in the height of your tool, Ill IM you in a little while
 
need some rotations and hands on after the rotations, thenlunch
 
Dennis Weiner said:
@Bill Boehme @Jeffrey Knichel
That s an excellent recommendation. My friend, Jeffrey Knichel, forum member and club president made such a jig but was unable to post this picture because he was unauthorized to this restricted forum. (he never posted before). So on his behalf, I posted a picture of his inexpensive jig below: It produces 10tpi threads following the threaded rod profile. It uses a Oneway 3/4 thread live center adapter to your chuck size. The cutter is a 60-degree double-bevel milling cutter held by a Beale chuck. It looks like you can make this for about $125.View attachment 49083

Jeff said with this type of jig he only has to eyeball the trueness of the walls and sides. The threads are cut true via the jig. Their depth needs to be true but their outer edge could be somewhat forgiving. So what he is saying is Metal lathe-like accuracy for the sake of thread cutting is not really needed for woodworking thread functionality.
For further information on the Jig, I guess you can IM Jeff or Bill can give him permission, if possible, to post here.

It would be nice if someone would manufacture a metal lathe-like carriage that would clamp into our ways so that we could get some additional cutting accuracy on our wood lathes. A while ago I bought a large ENCO xy table but never got around to customizing it to my 1W 2436.

For hole boring accuracy for boxes(to the thousandths of an inch), I use a boring head with a 3mt attached to my oneway tailstock. Boring heads are inexpensively available in different sizes and adapters. Amazon/EBAY is one place to look or craft supplies and sells them in the ring-making section of their catalog.
Click to expand...
Thanks to Dennis for posting this for me. I need to post more and then I can get into the restricted forums and marketplace. Jeff
 
Doug, I am not really sure what I am looking at. If I had time, I would drive up there to take a look at it. Dennis, if you want it, go for it. I am thinking that I need to be able to adapt my Baxter or maybe the Klein jig I have to let it cut. I guess first question for the above jig is how do I square it up since it can angle, rather than being a straight 90 and 180 degree cuts. I am still pondering this all...... Too many things going on, but thanks for giving me ideas.

robo hippy
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
This is the type slide assembly Robo needs. It's an accessory to a pattern maker's lathe. It can mount to the bed of most any wood lathe.

The top slide swivels at whatever angle you want, good for cutting tapers, etc. It can also cut domes like a ball cutting jig by swiveling top slide. A threading jig could mounted on top in place of the tool post.

With a high positive diamond carbide insert it'll take a bit of getting used to for traditional turners. The turned areas will be like those of ornamental or CNC turnings, no sanding or very little needed. Cut through knots and difficult wood, with and against the grain with no tear outs.

If anybody wants it I'll sell it for a hundred bucks. It's in Seattle for pickup or I'll ship via UPS with packaging and shipping done by the UPS store at buyer expense. It's a high quality item made for production work. Weighs 30 to 40 pounds, dimension from top to bottom in picture is 17". In spite of the patina it's in very good condition, the dovetail ways are clean and the screws have almost zero backlash.

View attachment 49118
Click to expand...
Hey Doug,
I got an estimate from UPS of the shipping to NY. The cost exceeds $100, without packaging, so I am declining and it's open for anyone else to purchase from you. It is exactly what I was looking for. I guess eventually I'll buy a small metal lathe or rig something up someday to do some occasional light metal work.
 
I figure there has to be a simple solution of some sort, just haven't figured it out yet. We had one guy in the club who made his own threading jig. It was not a thing of beauty, but it functioned perfectly. Got it on the back burner of my brain for a bit.... May have to take a trip to Harbor Freight to look at their cheap X/Y jig set up. Saw one turner who adapted that for a threading jig. Ideas are dangerous....

robo hippy
 
Ebay has some of the Delta "wood lathe cross slide for metal working on a wood lathe" for $199.00 which is the same Item as in my post. Google and you will get access to several including XY tables.
 
Michael Beswick said:
If they're anything like the ones over here in the UK there is major slop in the mechanism and the index scales are rubbish!
Click to expand...
The same as anything labeled cheap. You can spend $1,200 and get a great one, or spend some time taking out backlash out of the cheap. Those old Delta slides are not precision either.
 
Been out of town.... I do have the Klein jig in tact. I would guess I could 'adapt' it for putting on a straight cutter, just have to ponder it for a bit...

robo hippy
 
Doug, I'm not sure if there's an issue with the private conversation messaging. I havent received a reply back since your message saying you would sell the x y table table to me.
I sent a message back with all my information as well as a follow up a few days later. I'm hoping everything is ok, I wasnt sure how else I could contact you so I'm trying here. Should we try starting a new conversation? Look forward to hearing back from you.
Jeff
 
I did talk to Baxter about an X/Y jig to mount a cutter on, and he said he could come up with some thing for me. He has never had some one want some thing like this. This makes me wonder about the tenon and recess being spot on parallel. In theory, the cutter should cut the threads 'perfectly' straight, but I have seen more than one where they didn't have them spot on before threading and the lids would slip over some threads before making contact. Any comments????

robo hippy
 
maybe find some Bradford pear or sycamore to start on, highly figured wood might detract from ur turning
 
robo hippy said:
I did talk to Baxter about an X/Y jig to mount a cutter on, and he said he could come up with some thing for me. He has never had some one want some thing like this. This makes me wonder about the tenon and recess being spot on parallel. In theory, the cutter should cut the threads 'perfectly' straight, but I have seen more than one where they didn't have them spot on before threading and the lids would slip over some threads before making contact. Any comments????

robo hippy
Click to expand...
The dead on flat ends I do not understand why you would need an X Y table for I think it is quicker and easier to use ordinary wood turning tools and check with a straight edge.
As far as dead parallel surfaces for thread cutting why not just make them a little over sized and the Baxter jig should cut them true unless you are going for a pipe thread :p use a post mounted jig that could be set to the required taper angle.
If the problem is difficulty of making multiple passes to get exactly the size use a 2 flute cutter then when you reach the end or the thread shut off the lathe turn the bit so both flutes are out of the cut and back the work piece out. Set the depth say 5 thou more and run it through again and note that the cut feed is always in the same direction so gear lash is not a problem.
OK so where do you get a 2 flute bit? The first one I made about 25 years ago I hand ground from a HS dove tail router bit and surprisingly it did a decent job. The bit I am currently using is made from a 2 flute carbide key hole bit hand ground close then trued up on a metal lathe with a diamond wheel in a tool post grinder.
 
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The things I can count on with my Baxters are that when I put a Baxter on one of my lathes it is going to cut threads that are perpendicular to the lathe bed and valleys are inline with the bed no setup required. If at the end of the thread and you did not want to just run it back over the threads just made you can back off the Baxter .100 and go back to start the cut and then move it back in the .100 you will be at the exact spot as the previous cut as there is 0 backlash with my Baxters. I myself just run it back through the cut just made. I have a perfect record with threading with the Baxters and I always do the thread with two cuts. Depending on the pitch of the Baxter threading head you are using there is a set amount that you have to cut for perfect threads. Using the 16 TPI head the distance to cut in is .035. So if your first cut will be on the outside diameter and that diameter is 2" the cut thread depth will be 1.930. The ID of the second side to start now must be 1.930. If your first cut was on the ID of the piece and that ID started at a 2" diameter the second piece has to have an OD of 2.070". My first cut is .020 on a side and the second cut is .015 on a side. The Baxter is a precision machine that is the easiest to set up and use for the best threads always, this is my opinion.
Now if Robo wanted the end of the piece perfectly flat or the side perfectly in line with the bed you could hold a cutting tool in the chuck on the end of the Baxter and use it to cut perfectly flat or perfectly in line on a piece running on the lathe. That is crazy to me but it could be done. But like Don says regular tools and a straight edge is easiest.
 
I've always just used a 12 inch ruler to check for parallel along the lathe bed while looking down. That's usually the easiest and fastest way.
With a 16tpi thread I use an offset of 3/64" which I learned from a Bonnie Klein handout, easily measured if you have a fractional caliper. Over the past few years I've turned close to 200 threaded boxes (lost count after that), mostly in the range of 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" diameter (16tpi) and never had an issue. As long as the wood has been roughed out and well seasoned (even kiln dried woods need time to move and relax). If I'm doing a larger box or one of my urns I'll step down to 10tpi to allow a little more clearance.
Also, I use an older version of the Chefswarekits jig I bought used off Ebay some years ago.
 
I need the dead flat ends for gluing onto waste blocks. A trick I learned from Bonnie. That way I can do several at a time rather than one at a time. I would not trust remounting in the chuck to be spot on. With the waste blocks, I use the 1 by 8 tpi locking nuts, and turn the plastic washer out of them. I then surface the nuts as they are clamped in my chuck. This ensures dead flat surfaces so there is no wobble as I turn the blanks.

I can make the bottom/top dead flat by eye and tool, but it seems to me that it would be easier and more accurate to use a mechanical cutter. I need those surfaces to be dead flat for best glue joint. If convex, it ain't gonna hold. If concave, if I round over the bottom at all, it can come loose. I also use a 6 inch machine shop rule to eyeball the recess and tenon against the ways of the lathe. Again, I think it would be easier to machine a straight edge rather than eyeball and adjust several times.

Not sure how a cutter in a chuck would work because the chuck would spin as you cranked it into the work.

I may need to check out the Chef Ware set up some day.

I have always wondered about making threaded boxes over about 1 1/4 inch diameter. I had one fall off a table once at a show and it sat in the grass for 3 days. It was just over an inch in diameter. The lid would come off, but it was tight/loose/tight/loose as I unscrewed it. Can't imagine going over 2 inches at all. Eventually, it will move, and this is even if you rough turn first and let the wood 'adjust' then return it.

robo hippy
 
Robo with the Baxter you would use the outside dial that is graduated in thousands, that would take you straight across for perfectly flat.
 
Jeff Lyon said:
Doug, I'm not sure if there's an issue with the private conversation messaging. I havent received a reply back since your message saying you would sell the x y table table to me.
I sent a message back with all my information as well as a follow up a few days later. I'm hoping everything is ok, I wasnt sure how else I could contact you so I'm trying here. Should we try starting a new conversation? Look forward to hearing back from you.
Jeff
Click to expand...
The issue is with me, I didn't notice your conversation. Very busy with visiting relatives having a two week late Christmas.

Today I'll take the slide assembly to the UPS store to discuss options for crating and shipping. I'll let you know what I find out. I have had very good luck with UPS crating items, in case of damage it's all on them if they crate it. I know if someone else crates it they have a knee-jerk reaction to blame the damage on improperly crating.
 
Back again Jeff, I had asked a crating company about making a wooden box. They just got back to me. To ship to Canada it needs an "export" crate. An export crate has to be made of wood that's certified to have no insects or other nasty things in the wood. Rough cost would be $290 with a three week lead time. Yikes.
 
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robo hippy said:
I have always wondered about making threaded boxes over about 1 1/4 inch diameter. I had one fall off a table once at a show and it sat in the grass for 3 days. It was just over an inch in diameter. The lid would come off, but it was tight/loose/tight/loose as I unscrewed it. Can't imagine going over 2 inches at all. Eventually, it will move, and this is even if you rough turn first and let the wood 'adjust' then return it.
Click to expand...
Like I said I've never had a single issue with movement. I think using the 3/64" offset that Bonnie uses gives it a little clearance. I still have some boxes from when I started threading nine years ago and still work the same.
 
Bill Blasic said:
Robo with the Baxter you would use the outside dial that is graduated in thousands, that would take you straight across for perfectly flat.
Click to expand...
The router bit would have to be a larger diameter then the piece you are trying to flatten since the work piece is mounted on the jig and rotating the piece to accommodate a smaller bit will move the work piece toward or away from the bit mounted in the HS. The only logical way to flatten would be to mount a small router on a X Y table and leave the work piece on the head stock where the work piece could be rotated with the hand wheel as you gradually move the router towards the center of the piece.
 
Don no I said mount a cutter (gouge, scraper) in the chuck on the Baxter and mount the piece to be turned on the headstock. The piece is turning and you're just move the tool across the bottom of the spinning piece.
 
It have not followed this thread, so disregard if you chose. Years ago Mid-columbia woodturners posted a video by Ron Gerton on similar subject.
 
Bill Blasic said:
Don no I said mount a cutter (gouge, scraper) in the chuck on the Baxter and mount the piece to be turned on the headstock. The piece is turning and you're just move the tool across the bottom of the spinning piece.
Click to expand...
OK but like we have both said it is not worth it. That is the equivalent to mounting a router on a x y table, but from my experience I would say that the router has a better chance of producing an acceptable surface.
 
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