Thought my headstock bearings were finally going out......

[odie]

Had a vibration yesterday, and thought my 24 year old headstock bearings were finally going out.....but, no.....

I couldn't feel any play in the bearings, and on further inspection, I noticed the multi-v belt had a twist in it......one full revolution all the way around, where the v's were in proper orientation on both pulleys. This is the original belt, which has belt dressing applied yearly. The tension was not loose, and is re-tensioned with each speed change.

Any ideas how this might happen?

ko

 

[John Torchick]

Gremlins are the cause of many mysterious happenings. However, I can't think of anything else. I would think that if the belt were twisted when installed, the problem would have shown up on Day One of lathe operation.

 

[john lucas]

I never use belt dressing. A very good mechanic told me it was bad for belts so I quit. Can't imagine why it would do that unless it stretched or the tension released. Too bad it didn't end up in an 8, then you'd have reverse.

 

[hockenbery]

That is a mystery.
I have never used belt lube on any lathe belts.

My almost 22 year old woodfast still has the original belt

The ways I can think of for the belt flipping over are not likely
Someone is playing a joke on you
Possible a wood chip got in there an flipped the belt.
You may have gotten distracted and twisted it when changing pulley speeds or maybe misaligned the pulleys and the belt flipped over to put itself in the right pulley.

Interesting story

 

[Bill Boehme]

Belt dressing is a band-aid for a belt that is worn out. I agree with John ... all the experts say to never use it. It's ranks up there with other miracle products found in auto parts stores. If a belt squeaks that means it is slipping and if it is slipping, that means that it is worn out. The tension on a Poly-V (Micro-V, Multi-V and other trade names for a J-section belt) should be set very low. If you have the belt tension set high then you are just accelerating the wear on the bearings in the lathe and the motor. The life of a belt is hard to predict ... it depends on how much use it gets. However, it will probably succumb to ozone cracking before it is ten years old.

From your description of what happened, I think this is a good time to replace the old belt.

 

[odie]

All depends on which "experts" you talk to......

Belt dressing helps prevent rubber from cracking with age, and keeps it pliable. It does not repair belts that have already deteriorated.

My best guess is Al's wood chip theory. Access to that compartment is limited, but while I had it opened up, vacuumed an inch of chips in the bottom of that area.......

ko

edit: I did a search for how to replace headstock bearings, and found this:
http://www.fingerlakeswoodturners.com/downloads/HowareYourBearings-1.pdf

Although, I cannot detect that either the multi-v belt, or the bearings are in need of replacement yet, I've decided to assemble all the parts necessary for replacement in anticipation that it'll need doing sooner, or later. Been using this lathe steadily for 24 years now......... There is one other possibility that makes me think along these terms: It is possible the belt may have stretched a little bit with age. Can't replace the belt without removing the spindle......so, might as well do the whole job, when either belt, or bearings need replacement.

 

[Fred Belknap]

My rotary hay mower has four belts driving it and when the belts start getting worn out they will turn upside down. They also start making a lot of noise from slipping.

 

[odie]

My rotary hay mower has four belts driving it and when the belts start getting worn out they will turn upside down. They also start making a lot of noise from slipping.

Since I've been using belt dressing yearly for a couple decades, the belt is still pliable, no cracking, and not slipping.

Update:

I've felt no play in the bearings when leveraged......however, with the belt disconnected and turning the spindle by hand, I can feel a couple of minor "clicks" in the bearings. They are in need of replacement. As long as I'm going to replace the bearings, I'll replace the drive belt while I have the spindle out. The original NSK 6206v bearings are common, as well as the Hutchinson 1651 J poly v belt.....and both items are readily available on Ebay. I should have these parts in a couple weeks.

As long as the Woodfast lathe seems to be working well, I'll continue to proceed with my turning in the mean time. It would be nice if I see an improvement in cutting performance with the bearing change out........we'll see!

ko

 

[Richard Coers]

I'd guess some cords broke inside the belt.

 

[odie]

I'd guess some cords broke inside the belt.

That is a possibility, I suppose.

How could one determine if some cords broke?

ko

 

[John Torchick]

Would an auto supply house have the v-belt? My old HF lathe used a Gates belt that I got at NAPA.

 

[odie]

Would an auto supply house have the v-belt? My old HF lathe used a Gates belt that I got at NAPA.

Hi John......It's not a v-belt, and is one of the poly-v belts that are flat with multiple ribs. It's on order now, and coming from China. The original belt was by the same manufacturer (Hutchinson) but was manufactured in France. As with many companies over the past few decades......they must have moved manufacturing operations to China.

I checked with Auto-Zone, and they said they could probably match it, but I'd have to bring in the old one. (they didn't have a cross-reference chart) I didn't want to do that, because it would mean my lathe would have down-time. I want all the parts on hand before I remove the spindle. I have the instructions how to replace the bearings and belt, and want to do this as quickly as possible.

The NSK bearings are coming from a supplier in eastern USA, but these are still being manufactured in Japan.

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

There is a place in Louisiana called the Belt Store that has any kind of belt that you can imagine and they are super nice folks to deal with. Their prices are very reasonable. I steered Hu Lowery to them and I think that he was very happy with their helpful service.

There is an industry standard size code for all belts that is composed of the cross section, number of ribs and length. Your belt is called a "J-section" belt. For example, a belt with the standard part number 290J10 is a J-section belt that is 29.0 inches long and has 10 ribs. Some manufacturers like to use their own part numbers in order to keep you coming back to them. BTW, your belt is a V belt. Flat belts are flat. The typical half inch wide single rib belt used on small machinery is an A-section belt. A width of 10 ribs is one of the standard widths, but the people at the Belt Store can do custom number of ribs if my memory serves me correctly. Some companies such as Gates Rubber use the industry standard size code.

Unfortunately, measuring the length of your current belt may not be the best way to get the right length because it has probably stretched from age and possibly also a bit from using dressing, but if you have an owners manual that states the size that would be the only other information that you need. You might be able to find that information online since you have the manufacturers part number for your existing belt. Generally belt lengths come in half inch increments, but according to the Carlisle engineering handbook, there is no reliable way to estimate the amount of stretch with age because there are too many unknown factors like tension, operating conditions, and temperature.

 

[odie]

There is a place in Louisiana called the Belt Store that has any kind of belt that you can imagine and they are super nice folks to deal with. Their prices are very reasonable. I steered Hu Lowery to them and I think that he was very happy with their helpful service.

There is an industry standard size code for all belts that is composed of the cross section, number of ribs and length. Your belt is called a "J-section" belt. For example, a belt with the standard part number 290J10 is a J-section belt that is 29.0 inches long and has 10 ribs. Some manufacturers like to use their own part numbers in order to keep you coming back to them. BTW, your belt is a V belt. Flat belts are flat. The typical half inch wide single rib belt used on small machinery is an A-section belt. A width of 10 ribs is one of the standard widths, but the people at the Belt Store can do custom number of ribs if my memory serves me correctly. Some companies such as Gates Rubber use the industry standard size code.

Unfortunately, measuring the length of your current belt may not be the best way to get the right length because it has probably stretched from age and possibly also a bit from using dressing, but if you have an owners manual that states the size that would be the only other information that you need. You might be able to find that information online since you have the manufacturers part number for your existing belt. Generally belt lengths come in half inch increments, but according to the Carlisle engineering handbook, there is no reliable way to estimate the amount of stretch with age because there are too many unknown factors like tension, operating conditions, and temperature.

Hi Bill......

Actually it's not a V-belt. It's a poly-v, and is flat with 6 ribs, 3.5mm thick, 14mm wide, and 65" long. It's also referred to as a "serpentine" belt used on multiple pulleys for automotive use. My old belt has stretched about 1/2", near as I can tell. I didn't rely on that measurement to purchase a new one, but rather matched the manufacturer with the part number. It's already been ordered, and on the way. Thanks for the information on a source.

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

Odie, yes I understand what your lathe belt looks like. I have two lathes with J-section belts (one has 1o ribs and the other has 3) and a lot of other lathes also have J-section belts. Your lathe might possibly use a K-section belt. While it is a multi-ribbed belt, that is just one type of V-belt. There are similar large belts that have an A, B, C, or D cross section for each rib and are ganged together like the smaller J and K section belts. While you might be thinking that it is a flat belt, a flat belt is truly flat ... as in no ribs, no cogs, just plain flat. There are also round belts and double V-belts which is like two V-belts glue together back to back so that they can run in a regular V pulley on either side of the belt. Serpentine is just a descriptive name used by the automotive industry for the very long K-section multi-ribbed V-belts (usually 6 V ribs) because they are thin enough to wrap both ways. Flat belts are still used in in specialized applications. Here is a link to a manufacturer: http://www.beltingonline.com/flat-belts-1065/

Also Wikipedia has a good description on them and their use in early machinery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_(mechanical)#Flat_belts

 

[colin j parr]

belt problem.

hi everybody as this is my first post please forgive me if I get it wrong. One thing I don't think any one has mentioned is the possibility that you accidently turned your machine on with out releasing the spindle lock. this forces the motor to turn damaging the belt or causing it to twist. kind regards Colin

 

[odie]

hi everybody as this is my first post please forgive me if I get it wrong. One thing I don't think any one has mentioned is the possibility that you accidently turned your machine on with out releasing the spindle lock. this forces the motor to turn damaging the belt or causing it to twist. kind regards Colin

Colin......As a matter of fact, I have done this in the past, but it's been years since that's happened. I'll check the length of my existing belt, and see if I can detect any damage. I can see how any existing damage might have caused my belt to overturn at a later time......

Bill.....I can see we have a difference in conceptual applications of terms.....and, you are probably more technically correct!

ko