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2007 Video quality - Comments please

hockenbery

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Hi All,

If you attended the 2007 AAW Symposium,
I would appreciate your comments on the videographers.

Please visit and fill out a webform at:
http://hockenbery.net/videoform

There is a place to grade (A,B,C,D,F) the best, worst and average videography for the best videographer you saw and for the worst.

The form can be anonymous if you leave the optional filed blank.
BE SURE to hit the SUMBIT button at the end of the form.

We assembled a team of 23 videographers recommended by their local clubs.
You can also use the comments section for anything you wish to share.

You can of course post comment in this thread.

Thanks for your help
Al Hockenbery
 

John Van Domelen

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follow up

Like I stated in my message to you - reposted below, I don't think it was so much any one guys fault.

--------------------

I hope you guys don't think I was just bitching about the video. The Symposium was a wonderful experience and theres not much you guys could do to keep me from coming back! Everyone on the forum seemed to grab onto the negative part of my first post.

I really don't fault any one video guy. Like I stated in the posts I made - I really think the issue was time spent with the equipment that was being used and mostly just sub-standard or incompatible equipment.

Video in some sessions just cut off, with the camera not talking to the rest of the setup. This caused delays whilst the demostrator waited till all the equipment was happy again.

The other issue I mentioned just makes sense to me - have one guy control which camera is being used, whilst the guy on the handy-cam concentrates on focusing and getting the best shot. This is really too much to ask one person to do - and is how we work it in our club demos - divide and conquer . The is esp important if the switch box is on the opposite side from where the hand-held is.

Like I mentioned though - very minor irritations and I only mentioned them at all because I know that AAW has the ability to make it better.

Cheers and Kudos to a wonderful job done!

-- John
 
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hockenbery

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odie,
I wasn't very clear in my post. The video I'm seeking a critique on is the live video of the demonstrations at the AAW symposium in Portland

John,
We got a whole lot better than we were in Louisville. Now to get better yet in Richmond. Constructive comments like yours will help us focus on what to do next.
The we is the AAW.
Our Video team is made up of AAW members working to serve our members.

-Al
 
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Al,

Here's one thing I failed to mentioned in my e-mail to you.
In an ideal world, the demonstrator could have a monitor to aid in their presentation.
 
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The AAW needs new video cameras!!

hockenbery said:
Hi All,

If you attended the 2007 AAW Symposium,
I would appreciate your comments on the videographers.

<snip!>

We assembled a team of 23 videographers recommended by their local clubs.
You can also use the comments section for anything you wish to share.

You can of course post comment in this thread.

Thanks for your help
Al Hockenbery

Al:

I spoke with you Sunday morning of the Symposium about this, but I will go a bit further with specifics here in case others share (or differ) in opinion. Sorry for the length, but it needs to be said and acted upon well in advance of the Symposium in Richmond next year. Please be sure the other members of the Board see this and subsequent posts....(I will also fill out and submit a form, but this post will contain more specific experiences & recommendations)

Videographers:

I was a Room/Demo Assistant for three rotations this year (Firmager, Bosch, and Clewes); I also attended about 5 or 6 other rotations, and by and large, the gentlemen running the cameras in the sessions performed well in their role of trying to capture the processes of woodturning being shown by the demonstrators. I ran the camera twice last year in Louisville for two turners (Cindy Drozda and Mike Darlow), and was commended on my performance by Mike Darlow, who asked if I could be "the camera guy" for his remaining demonstrations, so I am personally familiar with their responsibilities. I think the cameramen did a good job overall, however some exceeded their responsibilities by trying to be both cameraman AND image switcher at the same time - This was in direct opposition to my instructions as a room assistant to function as camera/image switcher to obtain the best image for showing the process being done at the time - whether that be the video camera, an overhead shot, or a front-on shot with the mini-cameras.

Cameramen should be instructed to use the video camera and concentrate on getting what he thinks is the best image (which, by the way, is not always an extreme closeup of the cutting edge, etc.) and let another person maximize the visualization of the whole process for the audience (....perhaps even in consultation with the audience), whether or not it is the video camera's image being shown on the screens, or if another video source is selected.


The Real Problems:

1. Quality of the Video Cameras.

The biggest contributing factor to poor image quality during AAW demonstrations is NOT the videographers, but the inability of the video cameras to perform adequately in our application. First and foremost, the 'low end' video cameras presently being used with their always-on autofocus mode cannot properly lock into proper focus on a rotating cylinder of wood spinning at whatever slow or fast speed is selected by the turner. The infra-red sender/receiver circuitry cannot tolerate the spinning....which may be made even worse by turning wet wood.....so that the camera responds by focusing in and out, not being able to lock-onto an appropriate 'focusable' surface, and never achieving a true focus, especially under close-up conditions (...which, most of the time, is what we really need to see....).

Purchasing better cameras should be the #1 priority for improving overall video images at the Annual Symposium. I am certain that the AAW has the available funds ( ...or should make them available) to purchase a set of better quality video cameras that have automatic focus over-ride, so videographers can focus the cameras manually, and avoid the infra-red autofocus system altogether. Further, it would be desirable for the cameras to have brightness and contrast controls; this would enable the videographer to adjust for subjects having lots of reflective surfaces or particularly pale colors (....ever see the entire image get washed-out when the headstock of a Oneway lathe occupies much of the field?)

I was dismayed to hear that two cameras were stolen during the early part of the Symposium, and that AAW funds had to be spent to purchase replacements under these 'emergency' conditions. I am somewhat thankful that the thief likely got 'junk' cameras, but am unhappy that the AAW now owns two new cameras that will probably not improve the overall video quality situation at all.

For specific recommendations on equipment, the AAW Board may want to consult with AAW member(s) who have extensive experience in this area - I suggest calling upon the gentleman from the Great State of Florida, Mr. Ray Wishart (aka 'woodwish') who is a professional in this field.

2. Tripods.

Some videographers complained that the tripods used were somewhat unstable and may be too lightweight for our application. This should be investigated with respect to what new cameras might be used in the future.

3. Lights on Lathes.

In some cases, the lights on the lathes contributed to the significant washing-out of the images as videographed. Sometimes this was due to poorly placed lights (i.e. shining directly into the camera's lens), or because pale-colored or shiny surfaces contributed to overall bad image quality under the ambient lighting conditions. The balance between the demonstrator needing to see and capturing an acceptable image had to be addressed several (many) times throughout the demonstrations I saw. Videographers need to be aware of the lighting being used and how it should be positioned to get better quality shots.


4. Set-up.

For the most part, the digital video projectors used at the Symposium performed well (although, as a 'blast from the past', there were a number of "antique" units still functioning reasonably well, albeit with the characteristic 'flicker' of the earlier units).

What could clearly be given a "C" (or lower!) was the wiring set-ups in the demo rooms from the cameras to the switching box. For example, the gentleman I worked with who was running the camera during Trent Bosch's "Vessels of Illusion" demonstration had such limited mobility with the camera because the rat's nest of wires that was set up for him at the switching unit made it somewhat "challenging" for him to move about properly to get the best video shots. I can tell you as a radio station engineer in an earlier life, and as an active ham operator for the past 30 years, such a poor set up of video wiring at the switching unit is inexcusable if the system is to be set-up "professionally".

Furthermore, in the same session, the compressor being used was placed on the same circuit as the right half of the room's AV equipment, and when it came on, a circuit breaker was tripped. This circuit included the amplifier for the microphone and one of the two video projectors. The cameraman and I had to scramble about trying to re-wire the room while Trent was doing his presentation; I had to leave the room through back corridors to get the Convention Center Staff to get us re-powered for the compressor, and re-energize wall outlets in the demo room. Such set-ups need to be done thoughtfully as to loads involved.

Putting my money where my mouth (or typing) is, I plan on volunteering once again to be a videographer and/or room assistant for next year's AAW Symposium in Richmond, and if necessary will also volunteer to assist with set-up and running of the equipment (...assuming I can get there early enough). If there are better video cameras in use (with manual focus, etc.) and more professional set-up with coordinated tasks in the demonstration rooms, I am confident that the quality of what can be seen during the demonstrations in Richmond will increase by leaps and bounds.

Well - enough for now.....I will post another tread with other suggestions regarding improving on other "non-video" issues about the Symposium.

I would be interested to know of other impressions or recommendations, and whether or not you agree with my assessments. Given that the numbers of participants in AAW Symposium demonstrations are not likely to get smaller as time goes on, I think this is the most significant issue about our annual Symposia with regard to having an excellent learning experience during the demonstrations, and the membership should recommend to the Board that this be handled as a very high priority issue for Symposium improvement.

Best wishes,

Rob Wallace
 
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Rob,

All good comments! A couple of thoughts and observations though.

This was the first year I did a symposium and obviously the first year I was a room assistent. We weren't asked to deal with video stuff at all, or if we were I am afraid I did not pick up on it. We were simply asked to be available for whatever the demonstrator needed. On one rotation I wasn't needed at all, on another I was kept pretty busy throughout and doing image switching would have been awkward. I do agree though that the camera person might not be a good choice to do the switching. Let them concentrate on a good image. (I can see the ranks of volunteers swelling as I type this!!)

The "junk" cameras were actually not bad, just not really good. Some changes in technique might resolve a lot of the issues I was seeing and that you mentioned. The first issue was the Always On Autofocus. Most of those cameras should permit you to turn off Always On autofocus, while permitting you to briefly activate it by hitting one button. I have used this feature a bunch in underwater video with different grades of cameras and it is really useful in situations where the autofocus is having problems. Basically, you pick something other than your subject to focus on, but something that is in the same distance range. Aim at it and hit the Autofocus button till you are focused and then release it. The focus is now fixed at that distance. Aim the camera at the desired subject and it should be in focus and won't wander in and out of focus. Another trick is to zoom in tight and autofocus on something, then release the autofocus and zoom out till you have the image size you want. The focus will be quite good at that point. I used both of these tricks on footage that is going to be edited later though so I am not sure how much dramamine an audience would need to take before they watched the process. (These techniques would have worked fine for the more static camera work, but might cause nausea in the audience if done by a camera person who moved a bunch.)

The issue with light colored areas can also be dealt with by using the gain controls on a camera. That should be available on even these lower end cameras. I think a number of our demonstrators were a bit uncomfortable having to turn off their lathe lights but did it anyway to reduce the glare and washout. It would be good if we could deal with having those lights on for the comfort and safety of the demonstrators. Another way I dealt with this underwater without adjusting the gain was to back up a few feet and then zoom in rather than trying to be physically close. The glare and washout was eliminated by the extra distance to a point where the camera could deal with it.

Someone at AAW might want to set up a lathe and camera over the next few months and play with these settings to see if they work for you. If they do the techiniques could be written up for the videographers to use at the next symposium, or if the techniques are too hard or ineffective on these cameras then you have time to look at some other solution, new gear included.

The little fixed cameras, pretty much being security cameras with fixed focus lenses, were marginal in my mind. They did show an image, but often had enough softness in them to make it difficult to see detail like the position of the cutting edge of a tool. I am at a point in my turning where that was not a big deal. I could figure out what was happening from what the demonstrator was saying, but I could see how this would be an issue for sessions geared to new turners. I am afraid I am not sure what you do about those puppies. Are the lenses on them replaceable? (many security type cameras use C-Mount lenses which can be replaced with focuseable lenses of varying focal length.) It may not be worth the expense though if the overall resolution of the cameras is not that good. Might be worth trying with one though if they do actually use C Mount lenses. I have a C Mount Lense at home and would be happy to loan it to AAW if you want to try it out.

When I lived in Washington State I used to volunteer alot with a local aquarium doing presentations and training. One tool I loved and still use for things was a Flex Cam. it was a small base with a gooseneck mechanism on it that had a CMount lense in the head. It was Svideo quality and did a really good job of showing detail. I would use it to show small delicate items that could not be passed around a classroom, or to show some small process live to a group. I could also use it through a microscope and even a boroscope, which was really cool for some things. It was a terrific tool and much better quality than the security type cameras that I could have used.

Regarding the tripods....keep in mind that a number of the videographers were "agressive enough" in their efforts to get a good angle that they would lift the whole tripod up and brace it against their legs or stomachs to get higher angles or come in close without being in the way of the turner. A "heavier" duty tripod might make that tough. OK....maybe they shouldn't have had to do that in the first place, but it often did end up yielding the best angle for a given process. One technique I use underwater (yep....tripods underwater) and on land for that matter is to use a light weight unit but hang a weight below it to stabilize it. This works great when backpacking. Just carry a small mesh bag to hang under your light weight tripod and fill it with rocks when you need the additional stability. Would that work in this case?? Not sure.

I certainly agree that the wiring was nighmarish in some rooms. Gaffers tape might solve alot of that so long as the camera person was left free to run about.

One note on my own philosphy.....I tend to spend money for gadgets on myself, but tend to be really frugal with someone elses money (you would gaffaw about this if you knew me....I work for the feds and this is not how most folks view us <grin>) In this case, I tend to look for ways to make what we have work better before I suggest spending money on new stuff. That is what is behind all the thoughts I mentioned above. I would rather see our AAW $$ spent on the education and outreach functions rather than on symposium stuff. I do appreciate nice clear video though and would certainly support new gear if we can't make what we have function the way we all want.

I certainly expect there are many others out there with more experience in this stuff than me. Underwater video is a pretty limited experience to draw on so please...chip away at my thoughts!! <grin>

Dave
 
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I would echo all of Rob's suggestions, and thank him for the nice words. We met in Louisville last year and we talked about some of this while we were there, and followed up later. As the crowds at the demos grow the video concerns are a major factor. Live demos are always tough for a crowd to see but in today's video-heavy world we have grown to expect more and more. For example ten years ago or so there would be maybe 20 television cameras to cover a NASCAR race, which typically is a huge sports venue. Today there may be as many as 300 at some of the major races for broadcast.

People expect great video and this problem is not going to go away. I know last year a lot of the problem was a lack of expereinced camera operators, but that seems to have been improved in Portland. Due to an accident I was unable to attend so I am going on what I have seen on here. However, if they are still using that very old equipment they really need to upgrade.

I read David's suggestions above but the cameras that I saw last year simply do not have any focus overrides or any light control. Some of the ones I saw used were early Sony 8mm analog cameras, and I would guess they were at least 10 years old. Today's cheap ($300-400) digital cameras would be much better, not ideal, but much better than what was in use by AAW last year.

Today's consumer level cameras biggest problem is tape drive failure. As a high school video production teacher we use a lot of the low-end cameras for general student use. If I get a year or two out of them then we feel like it has lived it's expected life. I could throw them away but actually the camera part is still good, it just won't record on tape. I have two of them that I gave to my local club and operate them with few problems. Their focus and lighting is MUCH better than cameras just a few years old. By using one in the overhead role I can zoom in and out with a remote control. I have even given them to other clubs that I have visited so they could have a good video system. I use a cheap $20 video selector box and have seen better quality video than I did at the symposium.

Like Rob I'll also put my money (well, really just time) where my mouth is and volunteer now for Richmond. Hopefully with some $$$ and time we can vastly improve the video quality. I do hope the board is reading this forum, I volunteered on here last year and never heard from anyone again. :(
 

hockenbery

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Rob, Dave, Wood,

Your comments are right in line with the feedback provided by our videographers.
The camera quality, switching, mobility(tripods, wires), Poor view of the big screen.

For me the most significant issue is the inability of our cameras (brightness/contrast) to work well at certain ranges with the work light on. Often the demonstrator would turn off the work light to allow a better picture. Now we have the demonstrator struggling with the light - not good.

Several Videographers mentioned using work around tricks like backing up and zooming. This however made shifting to a new camera angle more difficult.

This is our second year with the big screens using LCD projection. In Louisville the big issue was that a number of demonstrations had very poor or even no-show camera operators. This year equipment is the major problem area.

thanks,
Al
 
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