I’ve seen it advertised her new steel bowl gouges. Has anyone used yet and recommend? I like the option for different handle sizes.
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Ashley Harwood bowl gouges
- Thread starter Rachel Aberle
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Have not seen or used one, but the “10V” bowl gouges interest me. Suspect it is the same powdered metal used by Doug Thompson, cpm10v from Crucible Materials. Her site does not mention heat or cryogenic treatment, so that part, which is very important, is unknown. I need to contact her to find out. The site does not state flute length either, a fairly important factor.
A positive is she claims a parabolic flute shape and polished flute finish, both improvements vs Thompson gouges for me.
If you are asking about the m2 versions, Im sure they are fine but a bit pricey. Nothing different from the competition there, except the collets, which I dont use.
A positive is she claims a parabolic flute shape and polished flute finish, both improvements vs Thompson gouges for me.
If you are asking about the m2 versions, Im sure they are fine but a bit pricey. Nothing different from the competition there, except the collets, which I dont use.
Possibly made for her by Thompson, just as the Jamieson gouge is. Strange that you can get a parabolic shape from Jamieson, made by Thompson, but not from Thompson. (Love mine, BTW.)
I purchased a set of her tools. And - had I read the print better...maybe I would have held off - because they are all M2 - whereas I thought they were 10V.
The tools are very nicely made - well polished flutes, etc. They come ground @ 40/40. The handles and bolsters are fully compatible with Stuart Batty's SB tools. Ashley has "improved" on them with an added feature: The bolsters have a machined "L" groove that allows you to remove the tool - and slide it into the back end of the handle, and twist it for a crisp, positive lock. So your tool steel is protected - and you are protected from it in transit.
The handles and bolsters, IMHO need something done to relieve sharp edges however. If you are thin skinned and easily cut - the bolster's L groove has very sharp edges, and the hexagonal collar on the top/head of the handle has covers that need to be softened a bit. Not a complaint - just an observation and my guess is that she is aware of it and likely this will be taken care of in future iterations - as in all tooling.
I have a class scheduled with her in the latter half of Feb. if I can carry any questions to her that you can't get answered. I know she is a bit overwhelmed with the response to her new tool line - and is considering making a couple of additional things such as the grinder platform like the SB designed one - but with some additional improvements or features, and some other items.
The tools are very nicely made - well polished flutes, etc. They come ground @ 40/40. The handles and bolsters are fully compatible with Stuart Batty's SB tools. Ashley has "improved" on them with an added feature: The bolsters have a machined "L" groove that allows you to remove the tool - and slide it into the back end of the handle, and twist it for a crisp, positive lock. So your tool steel is protected - and you are protected from it in transit.
The handles and bolsters, IMHO need something done to relieve sharp edges however. If you are thin skinned and easily cut - the bolster's L groove has very sharp edges, and the hexagonal collar on the top/head of the handle has covers that need to be softened a bit. Not a complaint - just an observation and my guess is that she is aware of it and likely this will be taken care of in future iterations - as in all tooling.
I have a class scheduled with her in the latter half of Feb. if I can carry any questions to her that you can't get answered. I know she is a bit overwhelmed with the response to her new tool line - and is considering making a couple of additional things such as the grinder platform like the SB designed one - but with some additional improvements or features, and some other items.
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Actually - they are made about 30 minutes from where I live. Not by Thompson - but a really high tolerance tool and die fabrication company.
The 10v looks nice.
That would be great thank you. Even having more information and details on the website.
I believe initially they were made by Doug Thompson but not anymore.
I have Lyle’s gouge made by Doug. It is a more open V flute vs Doug’s standard line, but it is not a parabolic flute.
Jamieson calls it parabolic on his website
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I have an engineering background and training so I have difficulty picturing a “V” with a small radius as fitting the definition of a parabola. People with different backgrounds may find the word parabolic not exclusively pertaining to a parabola as indicated by the following. What do you visualize or expect from the description "parabolic flute"? A true parabola?
Joe
Parabolic Adjective
1. of or like a parabola or part of one.
"a parabolic mirror behind a spotlight projects a parallel beam"
synonyms: legendary - mythical - mythic - mythological - fabulous – folkloric
2. of or expressed in parables.
"parabolic teaching"
Definition of parabola
1: a plane curve generated by a point moving so that its distance from a fixed point is equal to its distance from a fixed line : the intersection of a right circular cone with a plane parallel to an element of the cone
2: something bowl-shaped (such as an antenna or microphone reflector)
Illustration of parabola
Joe
Parabolic Adjective
1. of or like a parabola or part of one.
"a parabolic mirror behind a spotlight projects a parallel beam"
synonyms: legendary - mythical - mythic - mythological - fabulous – folkloric
2. of or expressed in parables.
"parabolic teaching"
Definition of parabola
1: a plane curve generated by a point moving so that its distance from a fixed point is equal to its distance from a fixed line : the intersection of a right circular cone with a plane parallel to an element of the cone
2: something bowl-shaped (such as an antenna or microphone reflector)
Illustration of parabola
I have one of Lyle's gouges. It is not parabolic. It is a V shape similar to Doug's, but it is more open. The wings are straight, not arced.
robo hippy
robo hippy
The Jamieson gouge isn’t parabolic. I own one and it’s the exact same profile as the other Thompson I have.
odie
TOTW Team
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Hiya Robo.......
I'm assuming you mean the interior shape of the wings are ground straight, or flat from manufacturing standpoint.....a true "V" shape. If this is so, then I'm also assuming your grinding process is intended to produce a curved surface of the cutting edge......is that correct?
-----odie-----
For reference, from left to right:
1. Jamieson 5/8" signature gouge
2. Thompson 1/2' V gouge
3. D-Way 1/2" gouge
4. D-Way 1/2 bottom of bowl gouge
5. Sorby 1/2" Gouge
1. Jamieson 5/8" signature gouge
2. Thompson 1/2' V gouge
3. D-Way 1/2" gouge
4. D-Way 1/2 bottom of bowl gouge
5. Sorby 1/2" Gouge
That photo is very hlpful, Daniel. Any chance we could get a photo with a straight shot down the flute of the Jamieson under discussion? Maybe next to the Thompson.
From Left to right - Jamieson, Thompson V, D-Way
Here are three similar popular 5/8 bowl gouge pictures that are supposed to have a parabolic flute. Can you pick out the Jamieson, Ellsworth Signature, and The Oneway Mastercut? After Looking at my Jamieson, I would say it's a V and it's not a U, and it's not a true parabolic cause the wings do not arch. It does have a deeper Flute than most of the Thompson gouges.
So guess which one is which above.
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So guess which one is which above.
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Actually, looking through all the pictures I find it difficult to appreciate the differences in the flute shapes.
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All look the same to me!
Sometimes we split hairs!
The Jamieson is in the middle other two too close to call for me.
I am pretty sure that Doug made a comment once about if you have a slight arc in the wing, rather than grinding it straight, then it 'appears' to be parabolic shaped when viewed head on. My wings tend to be ground straight, and I don't use a swept back grind. I do wish that Doug and Jimmy would make true parabolic fluted gouges. Just to try them out to compare. I did dig out an old Ellsworth gouge not long ago for demo purposes, and cut a little bit with it. Can't say that I noticed any real differences. It is worn down far enough that I had to grind a flat on the top of the shaft to fit it into the jig. I haven't used jigs in years though....
robo hippy
robo hippy
odie
TOTW Team
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Every experienced turner has evolved to their own methods and principles that work for them. For myself, I much prefer a curved cutting edge, whether the wings were originally ground from the manufacturer in a straight sided "V", or curved parabolic configuration. My reasons for this are influenced by a strategic method of revolving the tool on it's longitudinal axis as the cut is being drawn through an arc along the surface of the tool rest. While doing this, only a small portion of the cutting edge is in use at any given time along the total surface available.....and it is kept moving along that surface as the cut progresses. Because of this, the entire length of the cutting edge will maintain it's sharpness much longer when using this method.
-----odie-----
-----odie-----
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Nope!
Jamieson , Oneway, Ellsworth. The camera converges and distorts the images abit.
Try these pics for comparison. Top one is a 5/8" shaft Thompson/Jamieson, and the middle one is a Crown 242RAZ M42 5/8" shaft. Crown says all of their bowl gouges have the same flute. For the bottom pic, just for chits & giggles, is a Benjamin's Best 5/8" shaft bowl gouge. I don't see a McDonald's arch in the top one but I see it very distinctly in the middle and bottom ones. That parabolic curve makes it easy to get a convex curve along the full length of the wing with a swept back grind, among other things.
The Thompson/Jamieson does have a nice big radius for the nose and open flute.
The Thompson/Jamieson does have a nice big radius for the nose and open flute.
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OK, now I see a difference in the curvatures.
Now that’s a picture. I can see the differences now.
Tom, I agree. The Robust gouge has a perfect parabolic shape and the flat on the shaft is brilliant. I have a 5/8 and 1/2 and they have become my go to gouges.
@ Tom, David: Your experience with durability of the edge of the Robust tools compared to other brands, please?
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I just bought 2 of the Robust gouges. 5/8 and 1/2". Dont have much experience yet but seems like they hold an edge about as good as a Thompson. Need more time to give a really good answer. You can tell they are harder when you grind them. Rockwell 75 supposedly. I have older thompsons that are 68R. I may be wrong but I seem to remember Doug said he was going to 73R. That's been a few years ago and dont know if he did that or not.
John - sorry I am going to miss your demo for us @ CMW. I will actually be at Ashley Harwood's for a 3 day class. I like one thing about the Robust gouges - more than anything else. The "flat top" design. Without having to grind them myself - I like that you can use every bit of the gouge because of that one feature.
I have no connection to Robust.
I have one of their bowl gouges and one spindle gouge.
It is obviously difficult to accurately measure the length of time an edge holds.
I have a collection of bowl & spindle gouges that I accumulated over the past 45 years of turning. Some sit unused in a drawer because I cant get a good useable grind on them. Those that I regularly use are kept in a rolling cabinet near my machine and are used in handles with collets of some sort. My working drawer probably has six parabolic bowl gouges of various manufacture including one 5/8" Turners-Edge, all in 40/40 grind. Most of my work is with dry wood, but not exclusively. In my method of work when I sense that a gouge is getting dull I swap it out with another rather than stopping to re-sharpen. I can say that when I'm using the Turners-Edge tools, they stay in my hand noticeably longer before swapping out.
I could say more about what I like about them, but I don't want to appear biased.
I have one of their bowl gouges and one spindle gouge.
It is obviously difficult to accurately measure the length of time an edge holds.
I have a collection of bowl & spindle gouges that I accumulated over the past 45 years of turning. Some sit unused in a drawer because I cant get a good useable grind on them. Those that I regularly use are kept in a rolling cabinet near my machine and are used in handles with collets of some sort. My working drawer probably has six parabolic bowl gouges of various manufacture including one 5/8" Turners-Edge, all in 40/40 grind. Most of my work is with dry wood, but not exclusively. In my method of work when I sense that a gouge is getting dull I swap it out with another rather than stopping to re-sharpen. I can say that when I'm using the Turners-Edge tools, they stay in my hand noticeably longer before swapping out.
I could say more about what I like about them, but I don't want to appear biased.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Hate that I'll miss you. To me the flat top on the gouges is a minor thing. I remove so little steel when I sharpen that It will be a very long time before I get there. I have just now used my Thompson gouge to the point of not being able to sharpen it with the Wolverine due to the flute being too short. I bought this tool when Doug started making them so that's how long it has lasted and it is probably my most used tool. I have one of his detail gouges that is reaching the point of not working in the Wolverine which is how I sharpen that tool.
I haven't tried the Robust gouges. I have seen a number of 'nitride' coated drill bits and some turning tools. They seem to come and go, but never stay. I think Sorby tried some a few years back.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Have you put her name into a YouTube search? She used to have loads of stuff on there.
And you are right on that Odie-- she is great at promoting herself. A lot of the pros on the demo circuits that have their names on tools, promote their stuff. It's their bread and butter. Some are just a little more up front about it than others. I was a demo assistant for Harwood down in Tennessee a few years back. She is an excellent turner, an excellent salesperson, and her tools are good. She came up with an excellent modification of Batty's bottom gouge by having Thompson make it with a thicker and heavier tang, making it less prone to vibration when hanging way over the rest.
And you are right on that Odie-- she is great at promoting herself. A lot of the pros on the demo circuits that have their names on tools, promote their stuff. It's their bread and butter. Some are just a little more up front about it than others. I was a demo assistant for Harwood down in Tennessee a few years back. She is an excellent turner, an excellent salesperson, and her tools are good. She came up with an excellent modification of Batty's bottom gouge by having Thompson make it with a thicker and heavier tang, making it less prone to vibration when hanging way over the rest.
All you have to do is google Ashley Harwood ... I see a load of spindles, multiple ornament iterations, jewelry, the large table, a few styles of bowls. It always seems to be the female turners that have to prove themselves more than men...Odd how that seems to be the case. Anyway, here is what 2 minutes worth of googling came up with.
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john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I havent seen nitride coated. Titanium coated. Trent's nitride coating actually penetrates the metal 2 to 3 thousandths and raises the hardness from 68 to 75. We will have to wait and see if its successful.
I have a 5/8" gouge from Trent...it seems to hold an edge well. But - I am a sharp-a-holic. So I probably sharpen all of my tools more often than most would as truly "needed". I guess I am less concerned with exactitudes of just truly important the precise shape of the the flute is. Yes, I like parabolic. But I see so much "interpretive difference" between the folks that make/sell them - and they all seem to take an edge. I can control - to a degree - the "arc" of the side/wings on a swept wing grind, by HOW I grind it.
Because I am not as far along in my experience as a turner, I recognize that perhaps I am not grasping the finite details of this.....but here is what I know for a certainty....carbon steel from Harbor Freight is NOT a good material for a long lasting edge.....
. In fact those were the first tolls I bought - and after I snapped a gouge in half....I figured it was time to learn more. Education is continuing with time, and obfuscation of real differences in tools has become more complex as one spends more money on them tho....- Status