Blanks w/o Bandsaw

[Dudley]

I think I may go looking for some green wood this week in preperation for the delivery of my new lathe. However, I have a few questions:

1. Since I'm just starting, can I mount a green log between centers for tool practice and learning? Can I true it up from the woods natural shape?

2. When I move to bowls, is it possible to prepare the green blank without a bandsaw? I was thinking about cutting the blank with my chainsaw, then taking the blank to my radial arm saw and kind of cutting it into an octagon. Mount this blank between centers and truing at low speed. Will this work? Or is it dangerous?

Thanks,

 

[Natastic Emerson]

1. Yes, you can. The spindle probably won't stay intact, it will split all over the place. I taught myself spindle turning on 3" saplings, and it works. Turning green is different from turning dry, so eventually you will need to make the switch over to dried wood. However it is great for learning. Just don't do what I did: put an out of balance 2ft long 9 inch diameter hickory log on a Jet 1236.

2. You can prepare your blanks with just a chainsaw if the wood is big enough. Rip the log section in half. Go slow or you'll over-heat. Then get a stump or similar surface and put one of the log halves on top of it, cut surface down. Chainsaw out your blank, be it octogon, pentagon, duodecagon, whatever. I would strongly advise against using a radial arm saw. Mainly because of safety. I've cut some green timber on one of those, it seizes like crazy and is quite unpredictable. Not fun. Also, you'll find that it doesn't have the capacity you need to cut 5-6" in tall blanks. You could just go New-Hampshire-Hardcore like I do, and use a froe and hatchet to prepare your blanks.

Nat

 

[Mark Mandell]

Dudley,

Others may, but I never use my bandsaw to round turning blanks. Bowl octagones are cut with the chainsaw before coming in the shop. I'd "86" the RAS idea as well. Blade's not designed for cutting wet wood and the blank will be hard to hold safely.

I also mount log sections on the lathe in spindle orientation. Points go in the pithe on each end, tighten down to get the drive teeth engaged, then turn to a cylinder over the length. As always, you want to check the greatest swing needed to make sure it will clear your bed. You can also rip cut the log into quarters with your chainsaw.

You know how to chainsaw rip, yes?

 

[Dudley]

Mark,
If you mean cutting the log from end to end (like splitting it), yes, I think I do. I was taught to lay the log on its side and brace it with a scrap piece of wood, then cut it (down the round side). I was told this helps keep the chain from dulling as fast and reduces the chance of kick back.

Thanks for the info about the RAS. I'll forget that idea! I guess I could use a recipricating (sp?) saw if I have to.

Thanks,

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I have a bandsaw and a chainsaw. The chainsaw is lots faster (and more fun IMO). The cut you will be making with the chainsaw is a rip cut. You will end up with long strands of wood. It is the easiest cut you can make on the chain teeth because basically they will rip out the fibers.

As Nat indicated you need to ensure the wood is sufficiently big. If there is not enough mass the piece will not be stable while cutting. Although I have cut some 6" pieces.

Never remove the clogged shavings while the motor is running. Also you should wear gloves since the teeth are sharp (or should be). When you do a rip cut it will clog up the head fast. I often just stop the saw and while still holding the saw I put the bar on a piece of wood and roll the chain in the opposite direction. This helps remove the clogged fibers. I've processed several hundred pieces this way and it's kinda fun.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I forgot to add this. I also take a large compass out and draw a circle on the blank. While the compass point is in the middle I mark it - and that becomes the center for mounting on the lathe. Then I whack off the 4 corners with the chainsaw. If the piece is real big (i.e. 20" circle) then it takes longer because you essentially have to cut the entire circumference so it will fit on the lathe. Overall process probably take 5-10 minutes depending on the size.

 

[Angelo]

Chain Saw Blanks

You will make better progress sawing your logs in half if you lay the log on its' side and saw down thru the pith via the side grain. Chains are generally not ground to go thru the end grain dead on. It can be done but loads more work.

Use an end grain sealer to keep the wood from dryiny too fast. Additionally, if you are using a product like Anchorseal then you can lay in a sheet of aluminum foil while the wax is still wet. The blanks will last you much longer before they check than if you don't take any precautions. I've kept half logs for months without checking using this method on both ends of the blank. The good part is you don't have to remove the aluminum foil, if it does not peel off, before turning. You can just turn it away.

A

 

[Bill Boehme]

Aw now, who's afraid of using a radial arm saw or a table saw for freehand cutting round blanks? Certainly not the fellow in the picture (who is using a home brew "table saw" and making freehand cuts) shown on this web site for exotic hardwoods (or maybe he is since we can't see the expression on his face):
Exotic Wood World
Click on the thumbnail picture in the upper left to see the right way to do it.

Bill

 

[MichaelMouse]

Bandsaw is such a great shop tool for so many purposes beyond turning that it makes good sense to acquire one. If you rough with your chainsaw, be prepared to either rough smaller than the printed capacity of your lathe, or at capacity and plane off small protrusions that keep it from rotating. If you're like most of us, the aggravation of doing the final fit will drive you to a bandsaw, where you can cut just shy of the printed capacity without having to trim, then tilt and slice off the endgrain under the rim to reduce the off-balance load on your lathe. BTW, undercut these regions with the chainsaw, too. You're going to turn them away anyway.

Centers are easy, though I guess I'm the only one in this thread old enough to remember that the technique used is the same as bisecting a line in plane geometry. They don't use the elegant construction proofs as teaching aids any more. Strange how they speak on kinesthetic teaching and discovery learning and don't use them in geometry.

Circle-cutting jigs work on the same principle as your lathe. Fixed cutter, fixed center, remove excess over radius. Can be done on a radial arm, I suppose, is sometimes done on a table saw as well. My only concern would be the week's constipation caused by puckering so tight for long enough to do so.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Mark,
If you mean cutting the log from end to end (like splitting it), yes, I think I do. I was taught to lay the log on its side and brace it with a scrap piece of wood, then cut it (down the round side). I was told this helps keep the chain from dulling as fast and reduces the chance of kick back.

Thanks for the info about the RAS. I'll forget that idea! I guess I could use a recipricating (sp?) saw if I have to.

Thanks,

Dudley,

When chainsaw ripping, lay the log on its side preferably on a wood surface. Brace each side with a wedge, and check the pithe points on each end to give yourself the best cut line. Set up your cut so that there is an equal amount of wood on either side of the cut line. If the pithe is off-center in the log, this will result in one side of the ripped log being thicker than the other. This will give better balance in the bowl's grain, and will also help to eliminate cracking because the drying stress in the wood is more equal.

Set your saw such that you're cutting just to the side of the pithe line with the bar tip elevated between 10* and 20* from parallel with the log's axis with your bucking teeth planted in the endgrain. In this set, your saw is cutting slightly down through the rings and results in shorter "ribbons" that are less likely to clog your saw housing, and the chain will run cooler. The attached pic will show you what I mean. Make your first cut to one side of the pith line, but don't complete it. Then make a second cut to the other side of the pithe so that you will have removed the pith from both pieces when completed.

Before you finish the pithe cuts, decide if you wish to flatten the outer (bark) sides. If so, now is the time to make cuts parallel to the pith cuts you've already made. This is very helpful if you round blanks on a band saw because it gives you a flat surface to ride on the saw table. It may also save you a bit of rough face cutting on the lathe if the mounted blank is of fairly even thickness. If, however, you're planning a natural edged bowl, skip the outside cut.

Once you have the log split, check the grain to find its center in the cut, and then cut your octagon around that. Like Jeff, I use a set of dividers to mark off the circle, and then trim off around it.

BTW, trying to do this with a Sawsall would take you all day. You're asking way more of a dry-wood tool than it was designed for

Oh, don't forget those safety glasses and steel-toed shoes; no sense sacrificing more for your art than necessary.

Mark

 

[underdog]

I second the idea of using a circle cutting jig for rounding off blanks in the bandsaw. I've heard several people tell me how dangerous using the bandsaw is...

I disagree. The most dangerous tool is the one you're using. I've heard the same thing about Radial Arm saws, and table saws and chainsaws... take yer' pick. I've seen a guy get cut up pretty bad by a chainsaw and don't want to see it again. Sure they sewed him back up, but those are some pretty nasty scars on his face.... lucky it didn't kill him. If I were to say which tool I were most afraid of, it'd have to be the chainsaw. I might cut my finger off with a bandsaw, but an accident with the chainsaw could kill me...

If you use a circle cutting jig on the bandsaw, cutting blanks is a piece of cake, and you don't have to get near the blade to do it. If you don't have a jig, it's really not very hard to make one... and you'll save a lot of time turning lumps off your blanks...

Bottom line... work safe guys. I don't wanna read about you...

PS... and if you wanna make a bandsaw, you can probably buy a book that shows you step by step how to do it, here:

http://www.lindsaybks.com/

 

[Griesbach]

Oh, don't forget those safety glasses and steel-toed shoes; no sence sacrificing more for your art than necessary


Well described process, Mark. However, I would add chaps to your list of safety equipment for working with chainsaws. A friend of mine spent nearly three months in the hospital as a result of a cut to this leg that got infected. Nearly lost his leg. I easily decided my legs were worth more than the price of the chaps or any discomfort of wearing them in warmer temps.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Chaps

I have them, Cyril, but I don't use them when bucking up turning blanks in my yard. Out in the woods felling and cleaning the tree where I don't have a full range of options as to where and how I stand for the cut? You betcha! :cool2:

M

 

[Griesbach]

Hmmm, Mark, my copy and paste of part of your post weren't "highlighted" in my reply like I usually see with others. Any help on what I didn't do correctly?

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hmmm, Mark, my copy and paste of part of your post weren't "highlighted" in my reply like I usually see with others. Any help on what I didn't do correctly?

Use the "quote" button in the bottom right of the frame. All of the prior test will be shown inside the html codes of "QUOTE" to start and "/QUOTE" to end. You can then go inside the coded text and delete as much of the quote as you wish, so long as you don't delete the two codes. Copy & Paste will work as well but you must start with inserting the quote code in square brackets and end it by inserting the end-quote code (+ "/") also in brackets.

Mark

 

[-e-]

ok mark -- where's your ear protection and safety glasses???? tisk-tisk...

some chaps and steel toed boots would have earned extra brownie-points...but at least you weren't holding a beer! :>)

 

[Mark Mandell]

ok mark -- where's your ear protection and safety glasses???? tisk-tisk...

some chaps and steel toed boots would have earned extra brownie-points...but at least you weren't holding a beer! :>)

Better look again, e, glasses are ON, and the shoes were steel cap toes under that fine suade buckskin.

Only time I use muffs is to keep the ears warm when it's below freezing

Beer? Only got two hands! Besides, it stays colder in the cooler. [Sheesh ]

M

 

[JimQ]

Right now where you live, it would stay cooler in your hand than in the cooler.

JimQ

 

[Natastic Emerson]

Quiet. Some of us are still under-age and should not know of alcohol's magical powers.

 

[Dudley]

Thanks for all the info. What a great forum!

Actually, a bandsaw is on the "list"; however, the $ for the saw is not there after I paid for the lathe. Next thing on the agenda is a Wolverine sharpening system with a varigrind jig and diamond wheel dresser. Then probably a live center (my machine does not have one...) Followed by a jaw chuck. I already have safety glasses with side shields (perscription), a chain saw, steel toed boots (with metatarsals), a grinder, and a $30 respirator from Lowes. Got the garage set up for the lathe (just need to run a new receptical, I want the lathe to be on it's own breaker). NOW I JUST NEED TO GET THE LATHE DELIVERED!!!! Anticipation is creating a lot of excitment!

Until the bandsaw is in the budget, I'll probably lob off blanks with a chainsaw... and plane the ruff excess with a hatchet, wedge, or such. There is a great picture series on Bill Grumbines site on how he prepares a bowl blank . I'm envisioning Mark's description to follow this series of pictures.

I am just amazed at the wealth of information I have acquired from you fine folks in such a short time. I know I have a lot to learn as a total newbie, but I feel confident I can get a lot of answers here.

Thank you so much!

 

[Mark Mandell]

Right now where you live, it would stay cooler in your hand than in the cooler.

JimQ

hehe

The garage cool, eh, frig stopped running about a month ago

M

 

[JimQ]

You will probably want to get the respirator and the live center first after your lathe. One for your health, and the other to save your turnings.

JimQ

 

[Mark Mandell]

Glasses?

Dudley,

SAFETY GLASSES ARE NOT ENOUGH FOR WOODTURNING!

YOU MUST GET & USE A FULL FACE SHIELD if you're going to be using a lathe. Chunks of wood and steel tools have a regular habit of leaving a spinning lathe at high speed and in completely unpredictible trajectories.

$25 for a decent polycarbonate face shield or $150,000 for facial reconstruction surgery and a really nice glass eye.

Your choice.

 

[dkulze]

ABSOFOLUTELY on the face shield and respirator. Had a pen blank I was making golf tees with (don't ask) fly off the lathe last night and bounce right off the shield. Would have been a nasty cut or bruise without it. And that's not even mentioning the large chunks-o-shrapnel that have dinged my shield and even bounced off the plastic half cap at the top (had one bounce off the clear part, go straight up, then bounce off the plastic cap on the way down).

As to the respirator, that tiny stuff you get when sanding or when cutting reeeeeeally dry wood will go right through a dust mask, right through your nose, and right through your lungs. Remember, heartwood usually has poisons stored in it to keep it from being good bug food. That's what gives it that pretty color.

Finerly, for a cheap roughing bandsaw, pick up a used unReliant or Grizzly 14" off of someone who's upgraded to a vaguely accurate saw, add a 6" riser block and a 2hp motor scavenged off of some other equally cruddy tool, and a slide on plywood platform to increase your table size. Instant blank cutting saw. Total cost, usually around $250-300. Won't cut even vaguely straight but will chew right through a 12" blank if you're patient.

Dietrich

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Please wear a face shield when turning. 100% of the time with no exceptions. Just in the past year on the woodturning forums there have been at least 5 accounts described where a faceshield either:

• was used and saved the user from worse injury
• or was not used and the injury would have been greatly reduced

There have been a couple of threads about faceshields. Your face and your eyes will greatly appreciate the protection you give them. It might be good to review these threads:
- Why I wear a face shield
- How to save your teeth

There are also threads on other woodturning forums. We have a dangerous hobby. Faceshields are really not optional.

 

[Dudley]

Face shield it is! I like my teeth, eyes, and nose!

What about the repirator? The one I have I bought for drywall work. Do you wear it all the time or only when sanding?

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I have a Trend Airshield. All the roughout work I do is with green wood which generates almost no dust. The is some small dust from the bark, but usually I knock most of the bark off before turning. As a side note, if there is any loose bark, take it off first. Bark can also be dangerous - since it can tend to come off in chunks.

During final cuts I use dust protection, and definitely during sanding. Your drywall repirator should be just fine since it is targeted to keep out very fine dust. And that's all you need is to keep out fine dust.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Your drywall repirator should be just fine since it is targeted to keep out very fine dust. And that's all you need is to keep out fine dust.

Its funny,

The last time I was at "my" ENT doctor, I asked him about resperators, powered this and that, and several of the options I see people on the net swearing by. He hands me one of his disposable "doctor masks" and tells me to go home.

I said "Wait a minute, what about all this .1 micron rating and such." He says, "That's all fine [no pun] and technically very true, but, with one exception, you don't need it for a hobby wood shop unless you're in there sanding all day or working in a dense cloud of dust where it would be hard to see." "OK, I'll bite," say I, "What's the exception?" "If you're working with material to which you're sensitive or allergic." "Oh," sez I.


Then he asks me "Do you strip, shower, and put on clean clothes before you leave the shop and bag the dusty ones for the laundry?" "No," sez I. He asks, "how often do you vacuum clean all your shop surfaces with a super vac fitted with one of those .1 micron filters you asked me about?" I reply "I vacuum clean the shop about once a month, but not the ceiling, rafters, pipes, conduit and other nooks and crannies, and not with a "super-vac", why?"

He chuckles and says, "And you're asking ME about wood dust hazzard masks?"

I still wear my Resp-O-Rator when I'm sanding.

 

[-e-]

i love the continual reminder to use face shields AT ALL TIMES while turning ... additionally, i'd like to point out the recommendation to use a shield while chainsawing...something like the following:

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1471

last summer while i was ripping with my small chainsaw, a piece of bark broke off the main section and kicked back into my face -- my safety glasses saved my eye, but the plastic embedded itself into the brow. no different an injury than what could have come from the lathe ...

 

[jimwtolly]

Aw now, who's afraid of using a radial arm saw or table saw for freehand cutting round blanks? Certainly not the fellow in the picture shown on this web site for exotic hardwoods (or maybe he is since we can't see the expression on his face):
Exotic Wood World
Click on the thumbnail picture in the upper left to see the right way to do it.

Bill

Bill, the fellow is using a table saw in the picture, I still pefer to use a chain saw though.

Jimmy

 

[Mark Mandell]

Bill, the fellow is using a table saw in the picture, I still pefer to use a chain saw though.

Jimmy

Hmmmm. By the way, how many fingers do you see on that guy's right hand?

 

[Mark Mandell]

i love the continual reminder to use face shields AT ALL TIMES while turning ... additionally, i'd like to point out the recommendation to use a shield while chainsawing...something like the following:

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1471

last summer while i was ripping with my small chainsaw, a piece of bark broke off the main section and kicked back into my face -- my safety glasses saved my eye, but the plastic embedded itself into the brow. no different an injury than what could have come from the lathe ...

"She's a lumberjack, and she's okay . . ."

Gotta say, e, that's a very cool rig! At $45 it might be worth it just to put up behind the back seat and impress the hell out of the power company guys. Husky Orange, too!!

M

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hmmmm. By the way, how many fingers do you see on that guy's right hand?

Well, there definitely is a thumb.

I'm still not ready to try this technique. There is probably a steep learning curve on the table saw circle cutting technique -- maybe even steeper than learning to use a skew. We can't see his face, but I am willing to make a wager whether he is using a face shield. Something tells me that anyone doing this operation also does not use a face shield.

Bill

 

[Jeff Jilg]

Mark - that's a priceless discussion you had with your doctor, and a good point too. We're all going to inhale some of the dust. I guess the masks and pressured air respirators just keep it to a minimum.

But some of us can spend an inordinate amount of time in it. When I could all the hours I have put on the late, the dust systems are probably helping my lungs a lot!

 

[Mark Mandell]

Mark - that's a priceless discussion you had with your doctor

Oh, there was a price on it, all right, but I did pay for it with MasterCard

M

 

[-e-]

"She's a lumberjack, and she's okay . . ."

Gotta say, e, that's a very cool rig! At $45 it might be worth it just to put up behind the back seat and impress the hell out of the power company guys. Husky Orange, too!!

M

and it's great for my hairdo and makeup -- i can pop out of this and go straight for cocktails!
:cool2:

 

[Steve Worcester]

Quiet. Some of us are still under-age and should not know of alcohol's magical powers.

Now that is a rarity in this hobby.

Hmmmm. By the way, how many fingers do you see on that guy's right hand?

Now take a look at the tool set and count the number of gouges.

 

[underdog]

Aw now, who's afraid of using a radial arm saw or a table saw for freehand cutting round blanks? Certainly not the fellow in the picture (who is using a home brew "table saw" and making freehand cuts) shown on this web site for exotic hardwoods (or maybe he is since we can't see the expression on his face):
Exotic Wood World
Click on the thumbnail picture in the upper left to see the right way to do it.

Bill

Bill, the fellow is using a table saw in the picture, I still pefer to use a chain saw though.

Jimmy

yeah... but he's still using it FREEHAND!

Gaaaahhhh... it makes me draw up just thinking about it.


You can make a circle cutting jig to do this on the table saw as well, but you have to very careful, since the length of the cutting surface is so long.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Cutting_a_Circle_on_the_Table_Saw.html

I saw a jig to do this in one of my books somewhere, but can't remember which one at the moment.


I think it's much easier on the bandsaw.

 

[JimQ]

Steve, No gouges, but their "turning tools" includes a machette. Very essential for turning.

JimQ

 

[hockenbery]

Mark,

I just saw the photo of you and your saw. Two things stood out in my mind.

First really nice saw.

Second the chip stream is so weak I can't even see it.

Have you tried cutting with the engine running?????

happy turning,
Al